Hacking Will you still buy a 3DS if it can't be hacked?

[Y05h1]

I think nearly everyone paid for their games before moving onto piracy, and now it would just be a step backwards.

 

[Filet-O-Fish]

Most likely, yes. But the PS3 was supposedly unhackable, yet, it was,and the scds2 might work.

DSi is Suppose to come out with 4.3U and it Cripples and Brickes most Flashcarts like AK2i,SCDSTWO,and others

If they were smarter, They'd make the system brick along with the flashcart.

 

[alphafour]

Most likely, yes. But the PS3 was supposedly unhackable, yet, it was,and the scds2 might work.

DSi is Suppose to come out with 4.3U and it Cripples and Brickes most Flashcarts like AK2i,SCDSTWO,and others

If they were smarter, They'd make the system brick along with the flashcart.

hehe yeh I would imagine there's something in the terms of use which says they're not liable for any damage to console during "improper use" or something and I'm positive that they would include playing pirated games as improper use

 

[JsdMaNintendo]

Without a doubt. The 3DS is such an upgrade, I'd be willing to buy the games, even though I'd rather not. The 3DS is just flat out amazing. I plan to buy it day 1, if not, pre-order it, and get Ocarina of Time the first day it's out, then afterwords I plan to buy an AceKard3DS, but if it can't be hacked, I'll live.

 

[DiscostewSM]

people keep saying we shouldn't pirate because it really hurts the developers but actually I can easily turn around and just say it's their own fault for selling games at like £30 or more when alot of them (especially on DS) are shitty gimmicky games with possibly less than 10 hours play value at all.

It's a bit like the chicken and the egg... which came first? The primordial soup did, lol

Did pirating get big because games were perceived as too expensive? Pirating got big because of the quickness and ease of doing it

Did games get more expensive due to a need to cover the huge losses from piracy? Some games are priced high, and others not so high. It's about the development costs that usually judge the price of the final game. SNES games were expensive back in the day compared to now ($80 for the top-end games), but that was mainly because of the price to produce the cart the game came on. Whether or not piracy made a big enough dent to warrant a price increase would depend on just how many games actually sold vs how many the company was expecting to sell.

Would people pay for all of their games if the DS games were permanently sold at £20 rather than £30-£35? Is £0 greater than £20?

I suppose we couldn't give a definitive answer to any of those questions..

QUOTE(alphafour @ Oct 5 2010, 06:00 PM) as for myself- I would say that £30 is mental for most DS games as the vasssst majority of DS games are shit!

I got a rom of Pokemon Heart Gold in Japanese but then when it came out in England I actually bought it since I liked it so much.

I got a rom of ????DS?????????2010 and then after a week I bought it for around £50 in total from play-asia (which is the last time I buy anything from there! I wouldn't say whether or not it's good value I just can't afford to shell out £50 again for a DS game.. or any platform game for that matter)

I suppose I only buy games if they are REALLY good!

I am quite new to the whole flashcart thing, around a year ago I didn't even know what an R4 was and I used to buy all of my games, and waste alottt of money on shitty DS games which I traded back in at GAME for an only slightly less shitty game.

So anyway, as someone else suggested- 3DS is the next gen so I guess it will mean next gen prices of possibly £40 for games.

I'm gonna lay off the 3DS for a few months and if the price of games stays around £30.. I might buy one.. if the prices are anymore there is no way Im getting it if it can't be hacked.

Anyway I'll be in Japan from September 2011-September 2012 so hopefully I can pick one up there for a bit cheaper than it would be in UK

You're one of the few that pirates a game to "test" whether it is to your liking (each person has their own taste in what's good or not), but most people who pirate a game (liking it or not) don't share your follow-up. If a lot more people were to follow your example, I'm sure the push to prevent piracy wouldn't be so great as it is now. There's no denying that many games aren't worth the price of the card they were put on, but with the internet, literally every game that is considered reviewable is examined by countless reviewers. While I said earlier that each to their own, it's at least a good marker for what you could expect.

 

[alphafour]

people keep saying we shouldn't pirate because it really hurts the developers but actually I can easily turn around and just say it's their own fault for selling games at like £30 or more when alot of them (especially on DS) are shitty gimmicky games with possibly less than 10 hours play value at all.

It's a bit like the chicken and the egg... which came first? The primordial soup did, lol

Did pirating get big because games were perceived as too expensive? Pirating got big because of the quickness and ease of doing it

Did games get more expensive due to a need to cover the huge losses from piracy? Some games are priced high, and others not so high. It's about the development costs that usually judge the price of the final game. SNES games were expensive back in the day compared to now ($80 for the top-end games), but that was mainly because of the price to produce the cart the game came on. Whether or not piracy made a big enough dent to warrant a price increase would depend on just how many games actually sold vs how many the company was expecting to sell.

Would people pay for all of their games if the DS games were permanently sold at £20 rather than £30-£35? Is £0 greater than £20?

haha sorry I didn't make that point clear, I meant to say would people be willing to buy more games if they were cheaper? The old sell 10 at £30 or 15 at £20? (i'm not an expert) but I would imagine since alot of the data copying and packaging is most likely done in (cough china) the price per unit is pretty low so they might actually reach alot more customers by lowering the price.
I would definitely buy all of the games I want to play if they were £20 or even £25 but £30-£35 is just too much in my eyes... obviously in alot of other people's eyes by the looks of things

I suppose we couldn't give a definitive answer to any of those questions..

QUOTE(alphafour @ Oct 5 2010, 06:00 PM) as for myself- I would say that £30 is mental for most DS games as the vasssst majority of DS games are shit!

I got a rom of Pokemon Heart Gold in Japanese but then when it came out in England I actually bought it since I liked it so much.

I got a rom of ????DS?????????2010 and then after a week I bought it for around £50 in total from play-asia (which is the last time I buy anything from there! I wouldn't say whether or not it's good value I just can't afford to shell out £50 again for a DS game.. or any platform game for that matter)

I suppose I only buy games if they are REALLY good!

I am quite new to the whole flashcart thing, around a year ago I didn't even know what an R4 was and I used to buy all of my games, and waste alottt of money on shitty DS games which I traded back in at GAME for an only slightly less shitty game.

So anyway, as someone else suggested- 3DS is the next gen so I guess it will mean next gen prices of possibly £40 for games.

I'm gonna lay off the 3DS for a few months and if the price of games stays around £30.. I might buy one.. if the prices are anymore there is no way Im getting it if it can't be hacked.

Anyway I'll be in Japan from September 2011-September 2012 so hopefully I can pick one up there for a bit cheaper than it would be in UK

You're one of the few that pirates a game to "test" whether it is to your liking (each person has their own taste in what's good or not), but most people who pirate a game (liking it or not) don't share your follow-up. If a lot more people were to follow your example, I'm sure the push to prevent piracy wouldn't be so great as it is now. There's no denying that many games aren't worth the price of the card they were put on, but with the internet, literally every game that is considered reviewable is examined by countless reviewers. While I said earlier that each to their own, it's at least a good marker for what you could expect.

 

[DiscostewSM]

I'm sure more people would buy the games instead of pirating them if they were cheaper, but others still feel inclined that free is not only the better choice, but that it's their right that they shouldn't have to pay anything at all. Plus, the companies, if they sold the games for less at initial release than the standard price, would need to sell even more of the games to make up for the price cut. If a game was slashed by 20%, then they'd need to sell at least 25% more of the product to maintain the balance.

(( 1 / ( 1 - .20 )) - 1 ) = .25

If they sold more than 25% more, then they'd gain a profit from the price slash. If they sold less than 25% more, then they got a loss from doing it. This isn't taking into account any other factors, such as the need to produce more cards (costing more), shipping them out, etc.

 

[monkat]

Well, to those asking for price cuts, keep them asking on disc-based systems.

Cartridges are expensive to manufacture, and the price won't go down too much.

 

[Saddamsdevil]

Fun fact: I bought the original DS when I didn't even know about flashcarts.

I voted yes.

 

[Orangejb5]

^ yeah. i never even knew flash carts existed till this year. i already have a lot of legit games anyways. so im voting yes.

 

[Zetta_x]

I will never buy an expensive game to support a developer to continue releasing expensive games. If games were only 1 dollar each, I would buy every single one of my games. Obviously, they are not a dollar and will never be a dollar, but there exist some point where I would buy a DS game at some price. If developers can't sell it for that cheap, they would need to compensate for me not buying the game at all. Even a dollar is more than nothing at all aside they would probably lose money on the DS cart itself, but I would be willing to buy a digital copy.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I will never buy an expensive game to support a developer to continue releasing expensive games. If games were only 1 dollar each, I would buy every single one of my games. Obviously, they are not a dollar and will never be a dollar, but there exist some point where I would buy a DS game at some price. If developers can't sell it for that cheap, they would need to compensate for me not buying the game at all. Even a dollar is more than nothing at all aside they would probably lose money on the DS cart itself, but I would be willing to buy a digital copy.

So you're saying unless a game is insanely cheap (like to the point where the price barely even outweighs the production costs), you won't buy it? That's makes complete sense

I'm willing to pay money for a game to ensure a good continuation of it. The last game I bought for my Wii was No More Heroes 2 and it's the only game I bought since I started pirating Wii games. And even though it was an average game I'd still buy it again if it meant a chance to get a No More Heroes 3 that could truly live up to the first game (which I also have). Same goes with MadWorld, although that was just awesome from top to bottom.

 

[Midna]

In other words, "I only pay for things on the App Store"

 

[Rayder]

There's only the slightest chance that I will buy a 3DS, especially if it never gets hacked. That slight chance will increase greatly if it does get hacked.

For me, one of the 3DS's main gimmicks (3D) will not work for me as I'm blind in one eye. That's the first strike against it. Second is the firmware updates.....I don't like the idea of the 3DS possibly being hacked, and then Ninty puts out a firmware update (that you can't flatly deny without losing the ability to play newer games) to block the hack. It's the main reason I never bothered with a DSi (or any current consoles for that matter) and stuck with a DSlite. If that tag-mode baloney in the 3DS can't be turned off and they plan to update without necessarily getting your consent, then I won't even consider the system. Game systems are becoming far too online-centric for my tastes as I don't play games online. But if I'm forced to go online to update, or a game insists on an update before allowing me play said game, they can keep their 3DS.

Then there are various other reasons I'm not likely to buy a 3DS, such as the fact that the industry does not produce games that an old-schooler like me actually likes. Yes, there are some, but very few in comparison to games I consider crap. Unfortunately though, a great deal of games I consider crap, you guys all go ga-ga over, so in all likelihood, there's little chance that games I'd like will ever be made in a high enough quantity to warrant a purchase of the system by me.

Lastly, the fact that I seem to be losing interest in gaming in general (likely due to the above factors) means the old DSlite is probably the last gaming system I will ever own.

In short, not hacked has maybe a 1% to 5% chance of being purchased by me. If it gets hacked......maybe a 10% to 25% chance that I will buy it.

 

[Zetta_x]

I will never buy an expensive game to support a developer to continue releasing expensive games. If games were only 1 dollar each, I would buy every single one of my games. Obviously, they are not a dollar and will never be a dollar, but there exist some point where I would buy a DS game at some price. If developers can't sell it for that cheap, they would need to compensate for me not buying the game at all. Even a dollar is more than nothing at all aside they would probably lose money on the DS cart itself, but I would be willing to buy a digital copy.

So you're saying unless a game is insanely cheap (like to the point where the price barely even outweighs the production costs), you won't buy it? That's makes complete sense

I'm willing to pay money for a game to ensure a good continuation of it. The last game I bought for my Wii was No More Heroes 2 and it's the only game I bought since I started pirating Wii games. And even though it was an average game I'd still buy it again if it meant a chance to get a No More Heroes 3 that could truly live up to the first game (which I also have). Same goes with MadWorld, although that was just awesome from top to bottom.



QUOTE(Midna @ Oct 7 2010, 02:59 AM)

In other words, "I only pay for things on the App Store"

Price for a game is highly subjective. Would you pay for games if they were $200 each? No? What makes you different from me? Your value of money is different than mine. I don't think money should be wasted on games when I could be buying things that aren't on copyable storage media. If I am not going to pay for a game, I am not going to pay for a game if it is pirate-able or not.

That's the problem (supporting developers), developers have so much money where they can monopolize the gaming industry. They have enough power to force people to buy their games (anti-piracy) even when they sell them on copyable media devices. They have power to set up laws to tell you that you are wrong in this society if you do the obvious and copy their code because you can do it for free. So you are saying that you support these people no matter how much power they have over you and the gaming industry?

In reality, the facts about DVD's and DS carts (not flash carts) is that you are able to copy the data on them. When you work with software, you are working with data that can easily be copied. It's one thing to try and stop people from copying their data, however, by attempting to define wrong and right in doing so bridges onto what is 'true morality' discussion. Bottom line, societies' morality is highly influenced by people with power used to control people. In reality, it is not wrong to copy someone else's work especially how easy it is to do so. What society has successfully done is make you feel that it is wrong to do so.

We have different opinions, that is obvious. As a person who can think, I hold rights to my own opinions whether we you agree or not.

 

[danweb]

Those people that are saying that games should be cheaper should bargain and argue with the price. I bought The World Ends With You for $10 (AUD) and Klonoa for $9 (AUD) just earlier today (10 AUD is about 9.8 USD according to xe.com) Which is about $18.60 in USD. This is for some of the best DS and Wii games that are on offer. It isn't hard to get these prices, you just need to ask around and try harder to get them at your price. (They were both new copies by the way, and from JB Hi-Fi)

Games don't have to be expensive!

 

[Chris_Skylock]

I will buy not 1, not 2, not 3 but 6 Nintendo 3DS. lololololol

1 for me, 1 for my sis, 1 for Esperanza, 1 for Gwen, 1 Yshi, and 1 for Nadine. The latter four are not my relatives whatsoever.

 

[Issac]

You're right, Issac, that with piracy, when one person downloads, there isn't one less game on the market, but that's not the only thing. One more game "remains" on the market, while one less customer is interested in buying it, meaning one less copy is sold, leading to the profit from one game not granted to the seller. How is that not theft?



EDIT: my use of negatives made a double-negative.

That may work for one person, but if someone who wasn't going to buy game(s) to begin with...

...would still prevent profit gains to each company who's game the person downloaded. The fact that a person is interested in a game means they want the game. By not buying the game, they aren't supporting the developers, who need people to purchase their products in order to continue doing their job.

Like I said before with my analogy, to people like silverbullet, I was trying to make a point, but it didn't work out the way I had it planned in my head. I tried to do an analogy when I'm not good at explaining things.

So if my friend has a copy bought, and I borrow his system + game over lunch, give it a go, and decides that "nah, this game ain't for me", I'm stealing?
Checklist:
I was interested in the game? Yes.
One less copy sold? Yes.
Prevented profit gains to each company who's game the person tested? Yes.
Theft? Accordint to this: Yeah probably?

 

[FireGrey]

The 3DS WILL be hacked but it will be a long time, i say at least 2 years and at most 5 years.
Or it could be hacked on the release day (wouldn't ninty look stupid?) or in 20 years.
We'll have to wait and see.

 

[DiscostewSM]

Price for a game is highly subjective. Would you pay for games if they were $200 each? No? What makes you different from me? Your value of money is different than mine. I don't think money should be wasted on games when I could be buying things that aren't on copyable storage media. If I am not going to pay for a game, I am not going to pay for a game if it is pirate-able or not.

Inflating a single product's price wwhile ignoring all the factors as to why it's inflated is a lousy way to argue. They don't set a price by spinning a wheel on a wall and throwing a dart at it. They take into account many other factors to determine a suitable price. Now, you may not like the price, but it's not based on individual feedback. Besides, games back in the day had cost more than they do today.

QUOTE(Zetta_x @ Oct 6 2010, 10:58 PM) That's the problem (supporting developers), developers have so much money where they can monopolize the gaming industry. They have enough power to force people to buy their games (anti-piracy) even when they sell them on copyable media devices. They have power to set up laws to tell you that you are wrong in this society if you do the obvious and copy their code because you can do it for free. So you are saying that you support these people no matter how much power they have over you and the gaming industry?

Last I heard, game companies were having to layoff some of their employees. I don't see how they could be "rolling in the dough" if they're doing that.
They have the power to set laws for their products because it is "their" property. When you buy a game, it doesn't become your property. You become a licensee to use the product. Don't like it? Take it to the government, who enforces it. They saying it's wrong to copy their code? It's their property, and they have a right to protect it.