Hacking Why do people say creating backups is legal if they do it by themselve

[flyingpenguin]

Why do people say that by creating a backup of a game by yourself, it's legal? From reading copyright law stuff (for the United States) on the internet it states that it's legal unless the copyright owner allows it, which Nintendo doesn't, and I bet other video game companies don't either. So why do people say it's legal?

 

[spinal_cord]

Depends on your country I guess. I know here in the UK it's illegal to make your own backups also to download them.
Although technically, I think (don't quote me on this) it is only illegal to SHARE backups of music etc. it is the distribution pat that is illegal, so you can download it as long as your download method does not include any uploading. Although, I might be wrong.

 

[Ryufushichou]

Well from what i understand it legal to make a back-up if you own the original product. and you can download and use a backup of a game for 24 hours before you have to delete it. that's staying within legal boundaries as far as i know.

 

[spinal_cord]

the 24 hours thing is and always was complete bollocks. Pirates made that up years ago. If you download a 'backup' of something you don't own, and that backup was not created from the exact item that you own, then it is illegal in most countries. There is no amount of time before it becomes illegal, it just is from the start.

 

[injected11]

Nintendo recently added a new bit to game manuals stating that even making a backup of their games is illegal. People claiming it's legal either just don't know better, or they're trying to play it off as though they are doing nothing wrong.

 

[spectral]

From what I can tell from reading around it USED to be legal to make a single backup from your own media so you could keep the original safe, for example a VHS tape gets chewed up by the machine, you could use the backup and keep the original safely stored away. It was only legal so long as you still owned the original and it was in working order. However since then copyright laws have changed a lot and it is now illegal to circumvent protections put on the item for any reason at all in most countries. It may still be legal if no protection is bypassed to make the backup or protection broken on the machine that plays it. In some countries its still legal regardless of protection since their copyright laws may not have been updated. As for Nintendo saying you can't in the manual, that is irrelevent, if the law in your country allows it nothing Nintendo say can change that. They can't overide local law.

 

[kobykaan]

ALL MEDIAS regardless of it being games/music/video etc all have that funny little logo in them  this means Copyright ..

About copyright

Copyright can protect:

* literary works, including novels, instruction manuals, computer programs, song lyrics, newspaper articles and some types of database
* dramatic works, including dance or mime
* musical works
* artistic works, including paintings, engravings, photographs, sculptures, collages, architecture, technical drawings, diagrams, maps and logos
* layouts or typographical arrangements used to publish a work, for a book for instance
* recordings of a work, including sound and film
* broadcasts of a work

You should only copy or use a work protected by copyright with the copyright owner's permission.

Copyright applies to any medium. This means that you must not reproduce copyright protected work in another medium without permission. This includes, publishing photographs on the internet, making a sound recording of a book, a painting of a photograph and so on.

Copyright does not protect ideas for a work. It is only when the work itself is fixed, for example in writing, that copyright automatically protects it. This means that you do not have to apply for copyright.

A copyright protected work can have more than one copyright, or another intellectual property (IP) right, connected to it. For example, an album of music can have separate copyrights for individual songs, sound recordings, artwork, and so on. Whilst copyright can protect the artwork of your logo, you could also register the logo as a trade mark.

ie That means If you have NOT been given specific PERMISSION to make a copy or duplicate anything that contains these  symbols or logos or trademarks etc which are related to its copyright agreement/s anywhere in the product/documentation then really by these laws/agreements you should NOT copy,backup,duplicate etc the item in question!

Although no one really takes any notice of these rulings or agreements ..they exist but no one is going to hunt you down for the odd backup of something you already own for your own personal use ..its when you start selling/distributing for personal gain or in large quantity's then it becomes a major issue for the copyright owners and that's when they take action!

 

[Zourn]

oddly enough Game FAQs has the most clear answer on this.

Is it legal to make a copy of a game I own?
Yes. U.S. Copyright laws allow you to make one backup copy of software you own. However, that backup copy is "tied" to your original. If you sell or give away your original software, you must destroy your backup copy or package it with the orignal when you sell or give it away. Likewise, you may not sell or give away your backup copy without the original.

Of course, with the advent of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), breaking the copyright protection on a piece of software you own has been made a crime in many cases, so if the software you are backing up implements copyright protection, it may also be illegal.


Is it legal to download a copy of a game I own?
No. Even if you own the original game, you are not entitled to download a copy of it. Copyright law clearly states that the only copy of software you are entitled to is the one you make yourself.

 

[flyingpenguin]

From what I can tell from reading around it USED to be legal to make a single backup from your own media so you could keep the original safe, for example a VHS tape gets chewed up by the machine, you could use the backup and keep the original safely stored away. It was only legal so long as you still owned the original and it was in working order. However since then copyright laws have changed a lot and it is now illegal to circumvent protections put on the item for any reason at all in most countries. It may still be legal if no protection is bypassed to make the backup or protection broken on the machine that plays it. In some countries its still legal regardless of protection since their copyright laws may not have been updated. As for Nintendo saying you can't in the manual, that is irrelevent, if the law in your country allows it nothing Nintendo say can change that. They can't overide local law.

I read the copyright law thing (for the US) and it says creating a backup copy by yourself is legal as long as the creator allows it. I thought that would mean that Nintendo isn't overriding local law?

 

[Hitsuagaya]

Only with permission

 

[flyingpenguin]

Thanks for the replies. I guess people who say that it's legal just don't know what they're talking about (or they live in a different country where it's legal).

 

[DeMoN]

Did you know that many years ago, ROMs were legal as long as you "promised" to delete them in less than 24 hours?

 

[Hitsuagaya]

dude that is stil true Demon

 

[benjaminlibl]

Did you know that many years ago, ROMs were legal as long as you "promised" to delete them in less than 24 hours?

I think there was a disclaimer on emuparadise.org that said that?

 

[Njrg]

I keep hearing its the people who distribute and share are the bad guys...

All these stories you hear like "Gamer get $500,000 fine for pirating" or "Gamer get x years in prison" only has to do with the people who either A) Had a site with copyrighted material up for download. B) Peer-2-peer and other shared folder sharing. C) Sell pirated copyrighted materials for profit. Even though Nintendo and any other company tries working against downloading their software, its the "Private Downloaders" are the ones who are avoiding these lawsuits and slip under radar. Afterall, Downloaders GREATLY outnumber Uploaders when it comes to any type of media. And if you can eliminate or restrict Uploaders, then you get rid of your downloader problem indirectly. Any company knows trying to take down the downloaders one-by-one as a group is foolish and a waster of money. So they go after the smaller group of uploaders because without uploading, downloading can't exist. I couldn't have downloaded my Mario Kart DS ROM or my Freezepop's Pop Music is Not a Crime MP3 without uploaders.


Onto the point:

Is it legal to just download? I don't know, but it seems that way. I'm speculating thats because of some regions/country's "privacy rights" each human being/citizen is born with. And our hard drives are protected too, or at least the folders that are private/out of the eyes of the public/internet. This goes for any kind of media. Texts, movies, music, games, applications, porn. The only things that don't seem to be protected under such rights are medias that have been banned by a government. Thats why having child pornography even on the privacy of your computer whether it be in a private or not is illegal.

I don't know how long these privacy rights will last because society is losing more and more rights with added laws and regulation. Even the internet is slowly moving away from being free as more and more laws are being put into regulation.

Note: By Free internet I mean having absolute freedom to do what you want.


Anyways... The point of all of it, whether it be legal or not, as long as you're a private downloader, you have nothing to be scared about until some radical new law in your region deems so. And as far as I know, anyone living in a capitalist society is safe.

 

[spectral]

From what I can tell from reading around it USED to be legal to make a single backup from your own media so you could keep the original safe, for example a VHS tape gets chewed up by the machine, you could use the backup and keep the original safely stored away. It was only legal so long as you still owned the original and it was in working order. However since then copyright laws have changed a lot and it is now illegal to circumvent protections put on the item for any reason at all in most countries. It may still be legal if no protection is bypassed to make the backup or protection broken on the machine that plays it. In some countries its still legal regardless of protection since their copyright laws may not have been updated. As for Nintendo saying you can't in the manual, that is irrelevent, if the law in your country allows it nothing Nintendo say can change that. They can't overide local law.

I read the copyright law thing (for the US) and it says creating a backup copy by yourself is legal as long as the creator allows it. I thought that would mean that Nintendo isn't overriding local law?

You ignored the end of the previoous sentence that stated " if the law in your country allows it nothing Nintendo say can change that."

Not everyone lives in the US

 

[Hitsuagaya]

so true man that so right

 

[smf]

If your country allows backing up then Nintendo can't say that it is illegal to make a backup. In the US for example you are allowed to make backups under fair use, once you've made the backup then you aren't allowed to give it to someone else etc. You have to be able to jusitfy why you made every copy. However in the US the DMCA has meant that you're probably breaking the law if you use the backup, even under fair use. DMCA is not a copyright law, it's actually related to working around DRM.

In the UK there is no fair use exemption, you can't legally rip your cd to mp3's without permission. The EUCD is an equivalent of the DMCA, so flash carts & any documentation about working round DRM are against the law.

If you ended up in court for backing up games you own and playing them on a flash cart then I would expect case to be thrown out.

I wouldn't expect the police to come knocking unless you're iinvolved with something high profile.

 

[xshinox]

even if they say it's illegal in your country, you can still do it for your own private use. no one will know you are making back ups as long as its for your private use.

 

[Tokiopop]

Did you know that many years ago, ROMs were legal as long as you "promised" to delete them in less than 24 hours?

QUOTE(spinal_cord @ Aug 12 2009, 10:18 PM) the 24 hours thing is and always was complete bollocks. Pirates made that up years ago. If you download a 'backup' of something you don't own, and that backup was not created from the exact item that you own, then it is illegal in most countries. There is no amount of time before it becomes illegal, it just is from the start.

Who to believe...