Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[wiismodrome]

It's not fallacious. Devolution succeeds in loading GC games from USB, just not all of them. You are upset that it doesn't load all of them, which would be perfection.

Having a few glitches is not the equivalent of failing horribly.

Yes, your previous claim is fallacious. Here is what was stated previously:

Don't demand perfection when someone has just accomplished what was long believed to be impossible.

It is a fallacious argument because I never demanded perfection or even anything close to that. My criticisms are related to Devolution's AP scheme failing to recognize and load certain retail discs. A number of others have also reported similar problems. The program fails to do what the developer claims it will do with certain game discs.

 

[chop]

This thread is fantastic, it inspired me to look-up fallacious in a dictionary

fal·la·cious
adj.
1. Containing or based on a fallacy: a fallacious assumption.
2. Tending to mislead; deceptive: fallacious testimony.

 

[JoostinOnline]

It's not fallacious. Devolution succeeds in loading GC games from USB, just not all of them. You are upset that it doesn't load all of them, which would be perfection.

Having a few glitches is not the equivalent of failing horribly.

Yes, your previous claim is fallacious. Here is what was stated previously:

Don't demand perfection when someone has just accomplished what was long believed to be impossible.

It is a fallacious argument because I never demanded perfection or even anything close to that. My criticisms are related to Devolution's AP scheme failing to recognize and load certain retail discs. A number of others have also reported similar problems. The program fails to do what the developer claims it will do with certain game discs.

You are ignoring me and making up stuff. I repeat, "You are upset that it doesn't load all of them, which would be perfection." Show me where he claims that it will work with all discs.

You are seriously one of the most childish trolls I have seen on this forum. Why do you care about the AP? You don't have to use Devolution to run your games. Nothing stopped working when he released it. I think it's pretty clear to everybody that you've got some personal issues with tueidj, and your anger isn't related to the AP at all.

 

[Rydian]

I understand that there are a few legitimate (as in, not just because you want to pirate games) reasons to want the AP disabled. However, for the most part the only reason people complain is because they can't use his software to continue breaking the law. Any complaining about that should be completely disregarded.

Yeah, note that when one guy came in and made a long post where he listed multiple legitimate reasons for removing the AP (types of damage to wii/drives, etc.), nobody touched his post because he had good points a lot of us agree with.

It's the stupid responses and exaggeration ("he's a prick for not releasing the source" being an example) that are most often getting bashed here.

Even more, if you read how he respond to the people in the Devo thread, you will notice he donts gives a fuck about people's problem.

Link to posts?
Individual example posts.

http://gbatemp.net/topic/330554-devolution-public-release/page__view__findpost__p__4304764

However, pretty much every other post in that topic helped someome

Not doing additional video patching for higher resolutions and out-of-region games is a problem?

The original system itself doesn't support it. :\

But actually it's not. They could use DM/DML, or they could just play their retail games as was intended. Nobody is losing the ability to do anything.

Devolution is supposedly a USB loader for GC games. However, it is a USB loader for GC games which will not load a number of GC games due to problems with its AP scheme. On that basis, it fails to do what it claims to do.

"The first release fails on some games" is a decidedly different statement then "we lose the ability to do some things".

The first is true, this is an initial release and not fully-working (like most things in the homebrew community). Hopefully compatibility will be improved, and there's an official thread for feedback.

The second statement is not true in the way you worded it. The release of this program has done jack shit to harm anybody here or take away any functions they previously had.

I get the feeling that once Dios Mios gets audio streaming, Devolution's author will abandon the homebrew scene in a fit of rage.

You probably have that feeling because you think this is some random guy that popped out of thin air one day and hasn't done anything else?

That's a fallacious argument (straw man). I have not demanded perfection.

I have merely pointed out that Devolution fails to do what it claims to do (load GC games from USB), at least with some retail discs for some users. My point is that the current implementation of the AP fails horribly, because it disallows the use of certain legitimate discs.

"I have not demanded perfection, I have complained that the program works less than 100%".

How does Devolution know that a disc has already been verified? Wouldn't it have to save it in some sort of config file or something? And can't people just edit and/or swap said file between Wii's to make Devo think a game has already been verified?

It stores a file for each verification, and no it's not a direct hash so people can't swap the files around.

 

[wiismodrome]

You are ignoring me and making up stuff. I repeat, "You are upset that it doesn't load all of them, which would be perfection." Show me where he claims that it will work with all discs.

More fallacies?

I did not ignore you. I quoted exactly what you said. You clearly implied that I was demanding perfection, which is false. To claim that someone made a claim that the did not make is to construct a fallacious argument, which is exactly what transpired above. I never demanded perfection. I pointed out how the program fails to authorize/load certain legitimate discs, apparently due to a failure in the AP. It does load other discs.

You are seriously one of the most childish trolls I have seen on this forum. Why do you care about the AP? You don't have to use Devolution to run your games. Nothing stopped working when he released it. I think it's pretty clear to everybody that you've got some personal issues with tueidj, and your anger isn't related to the AP at all.

A personal attack/name calling? That really makes a substantive contribution to discussion.

Why do I care about the AP? Partially it is a matter of principle. Devolution's AP is not just stopping "pirates", it is stopping some people who own retail discs from using their games. In principle, if AP is justifiable at all, a proper AP scheme should never stop legitimate users from using their software. Not sure what to say to those who cannot see that this is a perfectly valid criticism.

 

[retKHAAAN]

This thread is fantastic, it inspired me to look-up fallacious in a dictionary

fal·la·cious
adj.
1. Containing or based on a fallacy: a fallacious assumption.
2. Tending to mislead; deceptive: fallacious testimony.

I just think the guy who keeps saying it is confusing fallacies and phalluses... Good luck not picturing a dong now every time Midna or wiismodrome write fallacies

 

[wiismodrome]

I just think the guy who keeps saying it is confusing fallacies and phalluses... Good luck not picturing a dong now every time Midna or wiismodrome write fallacies

Nope... my M.A. has helped me to identify fallacies... which is why I have pointed them out. Not sure why, but some people seem to like make up arguments where they misrepresent what others actually mean. Some sort of psychological thing I suppose....

 

[retKHAAAN]

I just think the guy who keeps saying it is confusing fallacies and phalluses... Good luck not picturing a dong now every time Midna or wiismodrome write fallacies

Nope... my M.A. has helped me to identify fallacies... which is why I have pointed them out. Not sure why, but some people seem to like make up arguments where they misrepresent what others actually mean. Some sort of psychological thing I suppose....

So everyone else is crazy??? What are you trying to say here man? What do you mean "you people"?

Why do I care about the AP? Partially it is a matter of principle. Devolution's AP is not just stopping "pirates", it is stopping some people who own retail discs from using their games. In principle, if AP is justifiable at all, a proper AP scheme should never stop legitimate users from using their software. Not sure what to say to those who cannot see that this is a perfectly valid criticism.

Bolded the "phallucy"...

It is not stopping anyone from anything. People who own the retail discs and can't/won't use this app can just play their games off of the damn disc. This software is not rendering their systems useless. It is not bricking Wiis. No one is being forced to use this app. Argue all you want about the justifications for the AP but don't pretend for a second that anyone is being wronged by its inclusion.

 

[JoostinOnline]

Devolution's AP is not just stopping "pirates", it is stopping some people who own retail discs from using their games.

No it's not. They can play their games just fine without Devolution.

 

[wiismodrome]

So everyone else is crazy??? What are you trying to say here man? What do you mean "you people"?

Hmmm... now I'm wondering if perhaps it is not just a problem with logic, but also reading comprehension?

I said "some people"... as is some/many/all... not "you people".

It is not stopping anyone from anything. People who own the retail discs and can't/won't use this app can just play their games off of the damn disc. This software is not rendering their systems useless. It is not bricking Wiis. No one is being forced to use this app. Argue all you want about the justifications for the AP but don't pretend for a second that anyone is being wronged by its inclusion.

More appeals to semantics and straw men?

Devolution's AP does not allow some retail discs to authorize/load. This means that the program fails to meet its author's claims of allowing USB loading for GC games, at least for some discs (not you discs).

I did not claim that the program rendered Wiis useless. Nor did I claim that the program bricked Wiis. Nor did I claim that the author was forcing anyone to use it.... so that bit was an excellent example of a red herring. Maybe I should start charging for giving a lesson on critical thinking?

 

[DJPlace]

i don't even know this was GC usb loading well that's a first... but yeah i'm just sick of this people bitching and shit and making me go anal over it i only pirate the ds... (mainly for rpg and pokemon games) but going legit on sony's side... but that's a different story... has i said just go to you local game store or garage sales or hell flea market's... (i said that before but no....) and what the hell all gamecubes games should work for this... but there are a couple games i can't play cause i can't import it or anything so i don't care...

 

[retKHAAAN]

snipped bullshit

Maybe you should start saying exactly what you mean rather than arguing "semantics" or "straw men" every time someone calls you on your bullshit.

 

[wiismodrome]

I dunno... I thought that I said what I meant quite clearly... even went to some lengths to explain various points which people misinterpreted.

 

[retKHAAAN]

I dunno... I thought that I said what I meant quite clearly... even went to some lengths to explain various points which people misinterpreted.

How does one misinterpret...

Devolution's AP is not just stopping "pirates", it is stopping some people who own retail discs from using their games.

...?
Oh, right. Semantics. Straw Men. Because it's not possible that you slipped, what with your master's degree in talking and all.

 

[wiismodrome]

Okay... the most reasonable interpretation of what I wrote would be "Devolution's AP is not just stopping "pirates", it is stopping some people who own retail discs from using their games with the program.". The last three words are quite obviously implied, as it is patently obvious that there are other ways to use GC games. But if people think that nit picking might allow them to "win" on the internet... well....

 

[retKHAAAN]

With the way you and others have been pissing and moaning about the AP, it isn't so "patently obvious" that there are other ways to play GC games... Were it so obvious, you'd think those upset would be spending this time utilizing those other methods rather than complaining.

 

[Rydian]

With the way you and others have been pissing and moaning about the AP, it isn't so "patently obvious" that there are other ways to play GC games... Were it so obvious, you'd think those upset would be spending this time utilizing those other methods rather than complaining.

This.

Complaining about the AP is fine. I don't like it either.

However the way people are wording a lot of their posts here makes it seems like they're claiming the program is taking away shit they could do before. If this program wasn't released you'd be able to do -less-.

 

[lex luthor]

I like how this goes. It's like a Dejavu. I've read the same repetitive discussion in a diferent manner the same two people for the last three pages. The only improvement was the fallacies vs. phalluses thing that isn't really adding anything to the discussion but well at least was a change.

 

[wiismodrome]

I like how this goes. It's like a Dejavu. I've read the same repetitive discussion in a diferent manner the same two people for the last three pages. The only improvement was the fallacies vs. phalluses thing that isn't really adding anything to the discussion but well at least was a change.

Hmmm... not sure what to say... I have at least made an honest attempt not to misrepresent what other people have said. It has been repetitive because I keep having to debunk repeated fallacious arguments.

 

[Maverick Lunar X]

Not doing additional video patching for higher resolutions and out-of-region games is a problem?

The original system itself doesn't support it. :\

I was more so pointing out the lack of fucks he gave about a user asking about something. Even his strongest supporters have been seen posting "Bro, turn the 'tude down and just tell them why you're not doing something," in different words.

Again, though, this thread has stretched so far from its original purpose that I now think of todays vocab word "fallacies" when I think of anyone with a Masters. :|