Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[JoostinOnline]

You're right. He SHOULD HAVE kept it to himself. If he wants to whine like a bitch when people point the flaws out in his program even for LEGITIMATE DISCS(which is one of the BIGGEST arguments against the AP bullshit in the first place), then it's better that he never shared it at all. Judging by his comments in the thread for the loader(which is what pissed me off in the first place as he basically told people in no uncertain terms "It is what it is, deal with it" and I HATE arrogant pricks), he only released it to fulfill his own ego and make his virtual penis that much bigger. Even WITHOUT the AP discussions, it's clear that he had NO INTENTION to fix any bugs or continue work on the program. When you make a homebrew program and release it, generally you upload the source code as well so that the community can add their own functions and fix bugs. It's been like that ever since the earliest days of computing. The reason the AP was brought up by me at least, was that it seemed to be the big cause of the problems with this loader. If it didn't have AP, a lot of these games would work NO PROBLEM! My defense was that there is NO REASON FOR THE AP IN THE FIRST PLACE CONSIDERING THAT NO MONEY IS BEING MADE ON THE GAMECUBE ANYMORE! That's like putting AP on an Atari 2600 emulator or a Nintendo Entertainment System one. Nintendo actually MAKES money from NES games due to the Virtual Console, same with the SNES and N64. There are flashcarts for those systems WIDELY available(I've done reviews on both). Having AP on an emulator is pointless and judging by the author's actions and comments was SOLELY done as a selfish act. Nothing more. Nothing less.

It won't matter any how. He released the program. If he pulls it, someone else is just going to take it over, fix the bugs, remove the AP, and make it better. It's only a matter of time before someone reverse engineers it and releases the source code. This is a COMMUNITY. You want to be selfish, go somewhere else. Do I know how to program? NO. But, that's not the issue. It's about the THOUGHT. I create videos all the time and share them on my YouTube. If I were to have said "Fuck You" and keep a lot of my tutorials to myself, people would not see how something is done and couldn't do something on their own. But, I'm NOT like that. I share my skills. I share my knowledge. I was raised up to be a respectable human being. I'm not and will NEVER be a selfish asshole. You don't like criticism on your program? There's the door and don't let it hit your ASS on the way out! Come back when you can learn to drop your ego at the door, be a man, learn to share, and take criticism!

Actually you (and most people in this thread) are the only ones whining and bitching. Dumbass.

I have to say, over the past couple days I've lost respect for a lot of people based on their comments in this thread.

 

[Maverick Lunar X]

Even more, if you read how he respond to the people in the Devo thread, you will notice he donts gives a fuck about people's problem.

Link to posts?
Individual example posts.

http://gbatemp.net/topic/330554-devolution-public-release/page__view__findpost__p__4304764

However, pretty much every other post in that topic helped someome

 

[wiismodrome]

Actually you (and most people in this thread) are the only ones whining and bitching. Dumbass.

I have to say, over the past couple days I've lost respect for a lot of people based on their comments in this thread.

I find it interesting how readily people take sides on certain issues, then belittle those on the "other side". I've seen questionable behavior from a variety of people this thread, both in favor and against AP.

What I personally find annoying is when people drop into the thread and make some sort of dismissive comment telling people "not to whine" and then leave. That does nothing for facilitating civil discussion. That's just trolling. And there is no good reason why people cannot have a civil discussion about the AP in Devolution. It is a valid topic, and one worthy of discussion, in part because Devolution's AP is causing a number of legitimate retail games not to work in the program.

 

[VashTS]

if the problem has to do with legal issues (meaning tueidj does not want to contribute to illegal matters) then either way, with or without the AP its still technically legal/illegal.

depends on your country and the laws of course but playing backups is illegal due to bypassing of the software protections. i don't care I will not be using this unless the disc check is removed or patched. my discs will not verify and I'm not going to bang my head for some garbage. DM FTW!

just my two cents on the matter. it honestly does not matter for legal implications whether or not the program has AP, its just to stir up controversy and piss off the pirates. its an internet (and childish) tactic and nothing more. hats off to tueidj, he did an awesome job coding this and i have nothing but respect for him releasing it.

 

[Midna]

Same boat as Rydian. While I don't think the dev really gives a shit about piracy (as I stated in the Devo thread, he's wanting to implement connectivity with GBA emulators :| ) and the reason he did any of it was to troll everyone using his coding abilities, its still his right to implement AP.

And I doubt bickering from a bunch of people on the intertubes will do anything to change that. I suggest money and hookers.

I think in the same way, for me tuedji is a troll and a d***. Even more, if you read how he respond to the people in the Devo thread, you will notice he donts gives a fuck about people's problem.

I know right, it's so selfish and trollish to release a revolutionary homebrew which doesn't do what everyone wants.

Try making sense instead of swinging around sarcasm like a baseball bat. Starting a post with 'I know, right' makes you sound like an insufferable jackass, and when you follow it with bullshit, it makes you look like an insufferable moron.

Care to explain how the fact that an application is 'revolutionary' automatically makes the author immune to any criticism, and eliminates the possibility that his motives might not be pure?
I mean, actually think about what you're saying. If the inventor of the first sentient AI uses it to try to eliminate humanity, is he a perfect person because he coded 'revolutionary' new software?

Are you being ironic on purpose? You berate a user for following up sarcasm with "bullshit" and then you compare a backup loader to a sentient AI destroying the human race.

Not sure if anyone's really noticed, but the only people namecalling and foaming at the mouth are the ones who disagree with tueidj's decision. Who gives a shit what someone else does with their own project. Who cares what their motivations are? You may as well be angry with him for not thinking about you while he masturbates...

Hmm, you've never seen an analogy, yes? Tey're often extreme to showcase the flaws in an argument in a more apparent light. I was being 100$ serious. 100 fucking dollars.

 

[retKHAAAN]

Actually you (and most people in this thread) are the only ones whining and bitching. Dumbass.

I have to say, over the past couple days I've lost respect for a lot of people based on their comments in this thread.

I find it interesting how readily people take sides on certain issues, then belittle those on the "other side". I've seen questionable behavior from a variety of people this thread, both in favor and against AP.

What I personally find annoying is when people drop into the thread and make some sort of dismissive comment telling people "not to whine" and then leave. That does nothing for facilitating civil discussion. That's just trolling. And there is no good reason why people cannot have a civil discussion about the AP in Devolution. It is a valid topic, and one worthy of discussion, in part because Devolution's AP is causing a number of legitimate retail games not to work in the program.

There is nothing civil about ALL CAPS or exclamation! points! at the end! of every sentence! as they appear in so many posts in this thread.

If you're truly against this AP only because of potential issues with retail discs and not because it makes it harder to pirate, then my hat is off to you. You're one of the few people in this thread with a legitimate concern. However, your voice will be drowned out by all of the people complaining that tueidj is a troll.

I don't care either way whether there's AP or not. I buy all my games so it doesn't even affect me. I guess that's why I can look at this app objectively... It's no different from software developers requiring keys to unlock their software, only as I believe Devin (maybe?) pointed out pages back, these keys are reusable. You only need to put the game in your Wii once, and then you can pass it on to someone else or sell it off, whatever. If a piece of software isn't useful to you, you're under no obligation to use it. If you don't agree with a developer, there's no need to pay them or what they produce any attention. What's stopping all the haters from just forgetting that Devolution even exists? Only the fact that they want to hate on it.

Hmm, you've never seen an analogy, yes? Tey're often extreme to showcase the flaws in an argument in a more apparent light. I was being 100$ serious. 100 fucking dollars.

I'm pretty sure analogies are used to make ideas more accessible. Only children or people desperate to be "right" use extremes and exaggerations to try and prove a point. Adults and level headed debators use analogies to simplify without exacerbating.

 

[JoostinOnline]

I understand that there are a few legitimate (as in, not just because you want to pirate games) reasons to want the AP disabled. However, for the most part the only reason people complain is because they can't use his software to continue breaking the law. Any complaining about that should be completely disregarded.

Even if it wasn't about piracy (which it is), tueidj owes none of us anything. He could have just showed it off and never released it. Instead he was kind enough to share his hard work. As some of you know, I don't really get along with tueidj on a personal level, but I respect him greatly. He has contributed a great deal to the Wii hacking community, although he rarely (if ever) receive the credit he deserves.

Why can't you all just be happy with this breakthrough? He is letting you play backups of your legit games via USB without even accepting donations.

 

[wiismodrome]

In general, I am against anti-piracy measures, for a long list of reasons. However, in this case I am specifically critical because Devolution's AP is stopping a number of users from playing their retail games. That represents a massive failure of the justification for AP.

As far as arguments by analogy go, I was able to understand what Midna was saying. I think that it may also be a little more difficult for those who do not speak English as a first language. There are a lot of fallacious arguments throughout this thread.....

 

[JoostinOnline]

In general, I am against anti-piracy measures, for a long list of reasons. However, in this case I am specifically critical because Devolution's AP is stopping a number of users from playing their retail games. That represents a massive failure of the justification for AP.

As far as arguments by analogy go, I was able to understand what Midna was saying. I think that it may also be a little more difficult for those who do not speak English as a first language. There are a lot of fallacious arguments throughout this thread.....

But actually it's not. They could use DM/DML, or they could just play their retail games as was intended. Nobody is losing the ability to do anything.

 

[wiismodrome]

But actually it's not. They could use DM/DML, or they could just play their retail games as was intended. Nobody is losing the ability to do anything.

Devolution is supposedly a USB loader for GC games. However, it is a USB loader for GC games which will not load a number of GC games due to problems with its AP scheme. On that basis, it fails to do what it claims to do.

 

[the_randomizer]

Looks to me audio streaming will be added to Dios Mios in the near future anyway http://twitter.com/crediar/status/224243036232757248

 

[Ace Overclocked]

Looks to me audio streaming will be added to Dios Mios in the near future anyway http://twitter.com/c...243036232757248

Still, on devo we could get wiimote support, wifi and usb access

 

[JoostinOnline]

But actually it's not. They could use DM/DML, or they could just play their retail games as was intended. Nobody is losing the ability to do anything.

Devolution is supposedly a USB loader for GC games. However, it is a USB loader for GC games which will not load a number of GC games due to problems with its AP scheme. On that basis, it fails to do what it claims to do.

Just because there are some glitches (which I'm sure tueidj is working on), that doesn't make it a failure. This is something people have been trying to make for about 5 years. You can't expect everything to be perfect after only a few months of developing it.

Don't demand perfection when someone has just accomplished what was long believed to be impossible.

 

[the_randomizer]

Looks to me audio streaming will be added to Dios Mios in the near future anyway http://twitter.com/c...243036232757248

Still, on devo we could get wiimote support, wifi and usb access

True, as that can't happen with Dios Mios, but hey, at least there won't be coercive disc verification DRM. I've already stated my opposition to such restrictive measures and I will refrain saying anymore concerning the matter.

 

[wiismodrome]

Once DM has audio streaming, it seems likely that most people will migrate in that direction, as that it the only major feature which it is lacking in comparison to Devolution... that plus the ability to use compressed games, and not waste hundreds of MB of drive space filled with unused garbage data.

 

[the_randomizer]

Once DM has audio streaming, it seems likely that most people will migrate in that direction, as that it the only major feature which it is lacking in comparison to Devolution... that plus the ability to use compressed games, and not waste hundreds of MB of drive space filled with unused garbage data.

1.3GB per game really isn't that big of a deal, especially if you have a relatively large hard drive to begin with. I get the feeling that once Dios Mios gets audio streaming, Devolution's author will abandon the homebrew scene in a fit of rage.

 

[wiismodrome]

Just because there are some glitches (which I'm sure tueidj is working on), that doesn't make it a failure. This is something people have been trying to make for about 5 years. You can't expect everything to be perfect after only a few months of developing it.

Don't demand perfection when someone has just accomplished what was long believed to be impossible.

That's a fallacious argument (straw man). I have not demanded perfection.

I have merely pointed out that Devolution fails to do what it claims to do (load GC games from USB), at least with some retail discs for some users. My point is that the current implementation of the AP fails horribly, because it disallows the use of certain legitimate discs.

 

[Ace Overclocked]

Once DM has audio streaming, it seems likely that most people will migrate in that direction, as that it the only major feature which it is lacking in comparison to Devolution... that plus the ability to use compressed games, and not waste hundreds of MB of drive space filled with unused garbage data.

1.3GB per game really isn't that big of a deal, especially if you have a relatively large hard drive to begin with. I get the feeling that once Dios Mios gets audio streaming, Devolution's author will abandon the homebrew scene in a fit of rage.

If you're using Dios Mios/devo on a loader, you must have a few wii games, and most of them are over 1.3, heck, they even reach around 8 gb.
Only thing i can think of is that some people use devo on an alternative pen drive since it doesn't support their ntfs hdd's

 

[the_randomizer]

Once DM has audio streaming, it seems likely that most people will migrate in that direction, as that it the only major feature which it is lacking in comparison to Devolution... that plus the ability to use compressed games, and not waste hundreds of MB of drive space filled with unused garbage data.

1.3GB per game really isn't that big of a deal, especially if you have a relatively large hard drive to begin with. I get the feeling that once Dios Mios gets audio streaming, Devolution's author will abandon the homebrew scene in a fit of rage.

If you're using Dios Mios on a loader, you must have a few wii games, and most of them are over 1.3, heck, they even reach around 8 gb.

I was referring to gamecube disc images, but yes, even Wii games can fit on FAT32 HDD just fine. I fail to see the point of compressing images if you have ample room (keyword: "ample"). ANYWAYS, it's awesome news nonetheless, as I thought it was impossible to achieve with the Wii's native gamecube mode.

 

[wiismodrome]

1.3GB per game really isn't that big of a deal, especially if you have a relatively large hard drive to begin with.

For a one or two games, no. However, I do not currently have enough HD space to store all of my retail GC games uncompressed. Many games use less than 100 MB compressed, meaning that over 90% of the ISO is garbage data. All that wasted space quickly adds up when an entire collection is archived. Only a few games seem to require a 1:1 image to work properly. Thus, I would suggest that allowing compressed images for everything else is a sensible move.