Very slow start times for all programs

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Woot now i'm idiot. o_o.. take it easy rydian..

Also, in most places rollback is one of the most essential ways of keeping track of data and prevent wasting time reinstalling OS-> restoring files -> restoring config -> etc.
 

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This is really off-topic, but a good anti-virus will keep a lot of headaches away, no matter what people say. You may protect yourself from viruses/trojans/malware but when the time comes that you're actually swapping a lot of files (oh no I don't have internet because I don't want to get viruses) with people via removable storage, you'll be in the shithole. This is most commonly, in school. You can't protect yourself from other people's stupidity if you don't have any precaution. Personally I have a good backup image if I ever have the need to reinstall my OS, plus regular backups on external drives for files I mind losing in such an event. But I've never had to need those because, oh, I have an anti-virus. Trust me when I say someone really screwed me over before because I had a shit anti-virus and they had a USB drive full of shit.

I'm really careful about what sites I go to and what links I click, but that doesn't mean that I can't flat out deny a report I'd have to write being given to me by my schoolmate or something because their data might have cooties. I have a relatively fast new machine and I'm only running MSE for now (waiting for my old anti-virus to expire so I can renew my 3-PC deal) and it's really light on my processor.

TL;DR: Anti-virus programs aren't useless, don't give destructive advice, there are always stupid people in the world that will give you headaches.

On-topic: I have a lesser-spec'd Lenovo Z470 which has no problems, so it must be one or more of the programs you have installed. Also, when I screwed up some OS files I just used the *OneKey Recovery feature after backing up all my shit. Worked like a charm. I didn't mind because my laptop is new, but yeah.

Edit: Fixed feature name.
 

Rydian

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Woot now i'm idiot. o_o.. take it easy rydian..

Also, in most places rollback is one of the most essential ways of keeping track of data and prevent wasting time reinstalling OS-> restoring files -> restoring config -> etc.
Prevention is a better alternative for home users though. In some cases (libraries, school, etc.) it can save a lot of time to have something like DeepFreeze installed and simply use that to undo any changes because the computers are being used by tons of different people, but for a single home machine it's often more hassle than it's worth when it comes to thinks like system updates and changes that actually need to be done (especially in the case of Deep Freeze, where the machine needs to be rebooted when unfreezing and when refreezing). For home users it's much less hassle to simply install some protection programs.

And the thing is, the whole "wipe every so often" technique doesn't keep you safe anyways. Unless you're wiping every boot (which is sort of the function of something like Deep Freeze), it's entirely possible to get an infection shortly after a reinstall, and have it exist and functional until the next time you wipe it, so wiping it only makes sure that each potential infection has a limited lifecycle. What's worse is that without proper security programs you're not even alerted to possible issues, outside of some browsers that have blacklists (but those are retroactive for discovered threat holds, opposed to the heuristic-based engines of modern AVs).

So not only is it a lot more effort, but it doesn't even stop things.
 

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Ok, so today I will uninstall Avast and I will install AVG since I've used it on all my PCs to day except this one. I'll post if this fixed the issue.



That helped a bit, but then I installed and ran TuneUp and it found about 300 registry errors and after it fixed them everything went back to normal.
 

raulpica

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Most of the PCs I get with "omfh viruses that don't let me log in my Windows" are full of ransom-ware and scam crap telling you to buy the latest awesome super-problem fixer.

Funny fact: All of these PCs had either AVG, Avira or Avast on them. FULLY updated.

Funny fact 2: I've got LOADS of PCs with rootkits on them (giving full background access, keep that in mind) and their AVs were just scratching their butt letting them stay and do whatever they pleased.

tl;dr: Antivirii are useless - but my customers expect to have one on their PCs and that's why I still care installing them.

I haven't seen an AV block a real virus in AGES. The only notification I get somedays are of trigger-happy AVs which call every strangely packed program a virus based on their crippled heuristics.
 
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zygie

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Don't leave out the part where you test paid premium anti-virus programs too. Personally I don't use any of those 3 as I find them absolutely lacking overall. Also, you get what you pay for, and in those cases, if you didn't pay, then you get nothing.

This doesn't apply to all though the paid ones though. I absolutely detest Norton and McAfee and they're as bad as free ones.
 

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Most of the PCs I get with "omfh viruses that don't let me log in my Windows" are full of ransom-ware and scam crap telling you to buy the latest awesome super-problem fixer.
Those aren't actually viruses, which is why they slip past easily. This is a big issue with computer security nowadays, most AV programs do little to nothing to stop malware, claiming it's not their territory for the free editions, only packaging the protection in the paid versions... when most problems people face now are malware, not viruses.

It's like considering every type of sickness a viruses. What if it's bacterial? What if it's mental? What if it's due to physical trauma?

There's all sorts of classifications now, viruses themselves are rather low on the scale as far as working numbers... but they're still the most dangerous. Your average malware is just going to scare a user into giving it $29.95. A motherboard rootkit can do a fuckton worse.

As for prevention malware, you usually find it installed on the systems of lazy people (or, less commonly, people who got already-fucked systems (such as windows updates disabled) from others). The guide's prevention section covers the simple steps you can take to protect yourself from common infections of today, and it's often the steps people hate doing, such as updating their browser (I even see people downgrade because they don't like the UI, opening themselves up to a couple security holes) and doing windows updates.
 

raulpica

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Huh, I also mentioned ACTUAL rootkits being there with the AVs doing nothing.

I actually find them all the time by accident while removing the malwares.

So, AVs are still useless in my view.

EDIT: Malwares are actually far more dangerous than viruses in my opinon, as they use security holes (I'm looking at you IE, but Chrome has its fair share now too) to install themselves on the user's PC. Which a good antivirus should NEVER EVER permit. Instead they do nothing. What's stopping them from not installing a scamware, but some keylogger? Nothing at all.

Don't leave out the part where you test paid premium anti-virus programs too. Personally I don't use any of those 3 as I find them absolutely lacking overall. Also, you get what you pay for, and in those cases, if you didn't pay, then you get nothing.

This doesn't apply to all though the paid ones though. I absolutely detest Norton and McAfee and they're as bad as free ones.
Might be. As you say, I've only dealt with Norton and McAfee, which I find abysmal.

I have a bad memory of Kaspersky as being far too happy of asking "SURE YOU WANT TO DO THAT? OH GAWD, ARE YOU REALLY CERTAIN?" even when I plugged in something stupid as an USB stick.
 

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KAV only asks me if I want to scan removable drives when I plug them in. I always do a quick scan, because I've had MANY cases where it caught worms from people I visited. Of course, I also checked myself before plugging into my main computers to see if it was just throwing false positives, and I could easily find them myself too, so I know KAV does a good job.

Also, KAV seems to get less intrusive each year. Aside from adding about 6 seconds to bootup, it doesn't cause me any slowdowns at all and I never see it create a large memory footprint. The only thing that annoys me is when it says half the programs (and games) I run show up as potential key loggers, but it doesn't get in the way so meh.

As for AVs being useless... Don't make me whip out the example of the condom-wielding jock and the Puritan virgin...
 
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Rydian

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They're only viruses when they help Rydian's arguments.
Congrats on being entirely unhelpful yet again, but I'll respond.

Viruses are out there and more dangerous than ever*1, however the majority of things people get infected with are not viruses any more.
@[member='raulpica']
This includes modern rookits, which are their own category.

"Infection" =/= "virus". A virus is a specific classification of infection. To be specific, a virus is a type of infection that spreads by embedding copies of itself into pre-existing files on the user's machine. Hidrag.A is an example of a Virus, it copies itself into .exe files and relies on one of them being transferred to another machine, where, upon running, it resumes, infecting all the files on the new machine, and so on. Back in the P2P days where I ran across this, the basic technique was still very prevalent, and later on I actually found it in a Warez copy of Quake 2.

Nowadays, however, people are more cautious about transferring .exe files, and standard download procedures will scan and test files, so hoping somebody runs a random .exe that pops up has lower success rates than it did in the past. This is why modern types of infections have moved away from being viruses, and moved onto being malware (often scareware). Modern infections will generally take advantage of security holes that exist in client programs in order to automatically install themselves (for scareware, you almost always find them dropped in %appdata%/roaming), and they'll exploit flash, adobe reader, firefox, IE, chrome, whatever they can use to present themselves to the user that has write permissions somewhere on the drive. Once they do that (since locations like %appdata% aren't protected by UAC), it's simple for them to launch and start changing settings.

As for the settings they change, there's one basic set of tactics that most infections (regardless of classification) take: removal prevention. Back when viruses were the most common threat the settings changed were rather simple... disable windows update, kill explorer.exe, and the average person is freaked out.

Modern infections however, can take much stronger steps.

*1 - I cleaned up an infection a few weeks ago where a virus had actually uninstalled BITS and the windows update service from the system to make sure that the system couldn't be patched for security holes, since even the downloadable patches from MS use BITS. I had to copy clean versions of the related .dll files and re-register them in the command prompt to get BITS and WU working again to patch the system.




EDIT: My point is that the majority of what people actually get infected (at least initially*2) with initially are not viruses, because virus protection does it's job well enough.

*2 - Once the system's defenses are down it's usually "fair game" to other types of infections, which is why an infected machine usually has more than one uninvited guest.
 

raulpica

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EDIT: My point is that the majority of what people actually get infected (at least initially*2) with initially are not viruses, because virus protection does it's job well enough.
Then the AV would probably report it as a virus and ask the user to proceed in a certain manner (delete/quarantine, ignore, etc.). Nobody actually ever tells me of something like that.

That gets us to our next point. As you know, Virii then get quarantined and usually every virus found gets logged.

I read the logs for the lulz, and the only thing I can find in there that get detected usually are just tracking cookies (man, that's useful!) but no traces of "strong" viruses or something.

I'm not saying that they aren't floating around the internets anymore, it's just that they're SO rare nowadays that I can't see the usefulness of an AV on a modern PC. They're akin to bloatware these days, since they actually do almost nothing.
 

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Raul, I work in the field doing this shit. Computer repair is my (current) job, was my job in college, and has been my hobby for years.

Viruses are still out there and can cause lots of havoc. Did I not JUST relate an experience I had with one recently?

It seems Raul does this too.

I will say there's some major idiocy going on in this thread. It's not a good idea to be connected to the internet without some preventation measures. AV programs are an essential to modern computing. As are anti-malware and anti-spyware. If AV programs decided to be good at removing everything, they'd be bloated resource hogs (even though they are now). There isn't any miracle drug in life or computing. I personally use Microsoft Security Essentials along with Spybot Search and Destroy and I don't suffer any slowdowns or speed spikes. You may think you're safe, but many of these infections do things without any visible problems and without your knowledge. You could be infected right now and not even know it.
 

raulpica

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Raul, I work in the field doing this shit. Computer repair is my (current) job, was my job in college, and has been my hobby for years.

Viruses are still out there and can cause lots of havoc. Did I not JUST relate an experience I had with one recently?
Guess what? I do the same job as you. Since 6 years.

Cool stuff, eh?
 

Rydian

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Raul, I work in the field doing this shit. Computer repair is my (current) job, was my job in college, and has been my hobby for years.

Viruses are still out there and can cause lots of havoc. Did I not JUST relate an experience I had with one recently?
Guess what? I do the same job as you. Since 6 years.

Cool stuff, eh?
Do you only work on internal machines then, LAN/MAN-only stuff, thin clients, the like?
 

raulpica

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Raul, I work in the field doing this shit. Computer repair is my (current) job, was my job in college, and has been my hobby for years.

Viruses are still out there and can cause lots of havoc. Did I not JUST relate an experience I had with one recently?
Guess what? I do the same job as you. Since 6 years.

Cool stuff, eh?
Do you only work on internal machines then, LAN/MAN-only stuff, thin clients, the like?
Nope, while I do also work on internal machines, the 90% of my customers are normal people surfing teh internets, downloading stuff and using Facebook.

Which are indeed the ones at most risk of catching a virus out there, with all those fuzzy sites offering awesome offers and free software.

As I said, they DO get viruses, but their AVs do _nothing_ at all to prevent them. And I end up having to remove rootkits manually all the time.
 

Rydian

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I see AVs prevent viruses all the time, what I see people initially affected with aren't usually viruses (barring machines that don't get updates and the rare 0-day exploits). The viruses come in after the initial infection disables the A/V.

Most malwares don't bother setting up a whitelist for themselves in AVs, they just disable the realtime scan functions, which opens the door for any sort of browser exploit or whatever to drop stuff in and get it to run.
 

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