Homebrew USB Loader GX 3.0 and Emunand

[Relic1882]

I think I'm giving up opn the emu nand. I thought it would be cool to try out and thought maybe it would load the games faster than the Wii SD menu, but it's not really worth it.

You don't really save any time loading the games from Wiiware, and that's if you're lucky enough to have the game work after installing it. Not to mention when it does fail, sometimes it fails mid loading and you have to hard shut down the Wii and start over anyway. All of the games tht are giving me issues on emu nand work great just installed via WAD and copied to SD. It just sucks that the Wii has such crap for memory. I'm going to invest in a bigger SD card so I can fit everything I want on it. Thanks for your help Cyan!

 

[kama70]

I don't know what app you use to extract your wad files to the emunand, but don't use the one integrated in usbloadergx, it just didn't work for me, even after hours and hours of trying.
I used ShowMiiWads and my VC/WW games booted on the first try.

I hope this can help some people with the same problems.

 

[Elliander]

I am having the exact same problem. In my case I am trying to play "My Life as King". Half the time I try to load it up the screen is black and nothing happens. If I then turn off the Wii and go back into it everything appears to work just fine. It loads my old save file no problem, and then there are a few places is always freezes at. First time when I hover over "Infinity Tower" I can't move it away. I try backing out and going back into it, but the cursor just gets stuck there. I click the home button and "reset" and then it just resets into a black screen. After another restart black screen again then another and it worked and this time I wanted to see if the downloaded content was still there and working so clicked that option and the game froze up.

Are these issues going to be worked out over time, or is it a "per game" kind of bug that will likely always persist?

Edit:

Actually, it looks like the black screens are mostly from loading the game. It just looks likes it's frozen. Maybe it needs a loading screen like you normally see with Wii Ware games?

I tested out "My Life as a Dark Lord" and so far it works without any problems. It appeared to be frozen, but then loaded just fine. The only real problem is that I can't purchase downloadable content because it's unable to connect to the internet. Is that a resolvable issue? I mean, the only way to get add on content legally is to buy it through the game menu, right?

I see a way to move wads from the system menu to EmuNand, but is there a way to select a single game to send back to the Wii? If so it would be a simple matter of swapping out the ones with the most trouble and/or content to buy and then swapping them back in.

 

[raspy]

I am having the exact same problem. In my case I am trying to play "My Life as King". Half the time I try to load it up the screen is black and nothing happens. If I then turn off the Wii and go back into it everything appears to work just fine. It loads my old save file no problem, and then there are a few places is always freezes at. First time when I hover over "Infinity Tower" I can't move it away. I try backing out and going back into it, but the cursor just gets stuck there. I click the home button and "reset" and then it just resets into a black screen. After another restart black screen again then another and it worked and this time I wanted to see if the downloaded content was still there and working so clicked that option and the game froze up.

Are these issues going to be worked out over time, or is it a "per game" kind of bug that will likely always persist?

Edit:

Actually, it looks like the black screens are mostly from loading the game. It just looks likes it's frozen. Maybe it needs a loading screen like you normally see with Wii Ware games?

I tested out "My Life as a Dark Lord" and so far it works without any problems. It appeared to be frozen, but then loaded just fine. The only real problem is that I can't purchase downloadable content because it's unable to connect to the internet. Is that a resolvable issue? I mean, the only way to get add on content legally is to buy it through the game menu, right?

I see a way to move wads from the system menu to EmuNand, but is there a way to select a single game to send back to the Wii? If so it would be a simple matter of swapping out the ones with the most trouble and/or content to buy and then swapping them back in.

Try leaving "Emunand Saves" to "Partial" and not "Full". This will retain wii remote sync and connection to the network from the real NAND. This is what I am using to just save DLCs from Just Dance 4 to the emunand on HDD. Works great but I am still trying to figure out the unusual delay after launching "Just Dance 4". The first two screens will appear and then a black screen that stays on for 30-60 seconds before the game works again. My post about this is here: http://gbatemp.net/threads/how-to-update-usb-loader-gx-3-0-to-higher-revisions.340787/

 

[Elliander]

Does "Partial" save to/from the NAND or the EmuNAND? I am trying to protect my NAND from unnecessary writes since NAND has a limit of about 5,000 writes before breaking.

If it saves to the NAND do you know a way to update the EmuNAND save information for WiiWare games? The option under USB Loader GX to copy NAND saves to EmuNAND apparently doesn't work for the WiiWare games and I would rather not have to redo everything just to update the saves.

As far as the "Infinity Tower" goes it looks like there is another location directly behind the Infinity Tower itself which seems to be where the bug is. I wonder if starting a new game under EmuNAND would improve anything.

 

[raspy]

Does "Partial" save to/from the NAND or the EmuNAND? I am trying to protect my NAND from unnecessary writes since NAND has a limit of about 5,000 writes before breaking.

If it saves to the NAND do you know a way to update the EmuNAND save information for WiiWare games? The option under USB Loader GX to copy NAND saves to EmuNAND apparently doesn't work for the WiiWare games and I would rather not have to redo everything just to update the saves.

As far as the "Infinity Tower" goes it looks like there is another location directly behind the Infinity Tower itself which seems to be where the bug is. I wonder if starting a new game under EmuNAND would improve anything.

The setting is just for the emulated NAND whether you choose "Partial" or "Full". But choosing "Partial" will just store game saves to the EmuNAND while other functions of the Wii (wii remote sync, network, etc.) will be read from the real NAND. If you choose "Full" then everything will be read from the EmuNAND so the real NAND does not get touched (if this is correct).

Running EmuNAND in "Full" you can install whatever you throw at it without the risk of damaging the real NAND. If something screws up then just dump the real NAND and start over again on the EmuNAND.

I haven't tried the extract feature to be honest because I am running everything through EmuNand but I know WiiFlow has this feature too. Perhaps you can try it in WiiFlow just for the sake of proving out a bug with USB Loader GX? Also have you tried the latest revision and not just 3.0? I am using r1208 at the moment.

 

[nakata6790]

since NAND has a limit of about 5,000 writes before breaking.

is this true?

I tested out "My Life as a Dark Lord" and so far it works without any problems. It appeared to be frozen, but then loaded just fine. The only real problem is that I can't purchase downloadable content because it's unable to connect to the internet. Is that a resolvable issue? I mean, the only way to get add on content legally is to buy it through the game menu, right?

Legally, yes only via real nand or sd channel (I also think i've heard that forwarders like wad2iso will cause online to work, but i am not sure. Ditto about neek2o as well).

Just so you know, you can simply install the dlc wad to the same emunand as the game.
I did just that for the Phoenix Wight, Puzzle Bobble and Bubble Bobble DLC and it works flawlessly.

About the savegame management, i recommend SaveGame Manager GX. It transfers saves between real NAND, emunand and SD folder.

 

[Elliander]

The setting is just for the emulated NAND whether you choose "Partial" or "Full". But choosing "Partial" will just store game saves to the EmuNAND while other functions of the Wii (wii remote sync, network, etc.) will be read from the real NAND. If you choose "Full" then everything will be read from the EmuNAND so the real NAND does not get touched (if this is correct).

Running EmuNAND in "Full" you can install whatever you throw at it without the risk of damaging the real NAND. If something screws up then just dump the real NAND and start over again on the EmuNAND.

That's very good to know. That explains why whenever I go into USB Loader the Wiimote player numbers scramble predictably. I will try setting it to "partial" and see what that accomplishes.

I haven't tried the extract feature to be honest because I am running everything through EmuNand but I know WiiFlow has this feature too. Perhaps you can try it in WiiFlow just for the sake of proving out a bug with USB Loader GX?

If I had to add another program to the Wii I think I'd rather something dedicated to what I am trying to do.

Also have you tried the latest revision and not just 3.0? I am using r1208 at the moment.

Yes, I have the same. USB Loader GX 3.0 revision 1208. I also managed to get UNEEK+Dl and the NEEK2o channel to load it WiiWare that USB Loader can't handle, but don't have any revisions installed for that because I don't know where to put the files for it.

is this true?

Yes, it is a physical limit of all NAND memory. The first NAND memory was limited to 10,000 writes, but each time they make it more compact the number of Writes decreases. The size used by the Wii has a limit of 5,000 writes and the next generation of NAND chips will be limited to 3,000 writes. (See here.) In practice this means that after the same block of memory has been overwritten 5,000 times by the Wii it becomes impossible to write to the same section of memory again so unless the Wii has an internal mechanism to detect when a block has become bad (and not just the list of bad blocks from the factory) it will become very buggy and will gradually get worse. Since playing WiiWare games from the SD card (officially) writes to the NAND every time you load it up pulling up a big game like "My Life as a King" 5,000 times will almost certainly break your Wii.

NAND chips were designed to be replaced by the end user when they go bad, but Nintendo didn't implement them that way (Since every NAND in a Wii has a unique key it's next to impossible for the average consumer to replace). The projected lifespan of the NAND chips exceeds the projected lifespan of the Wii console's marketability so from Nintendo's perspective it doesn't matter that they made it next to impossible to swap the NAND. That's why they set up the Wii-U to accept NAND transfers from the Wii. When your Wii begins to break down the Wii-U would be out and you would be compelled to buy one. It's a good example of planned obsolescence where the Wii is designed to break.

The Wii has 512 MB NAND, and the Wii-U has either a 8 GB or 32 GB NAND. With larger NAND the chance of having to reuse the same block of memory is lower so less of an issue so at least in that regard the Wii-U is better, but I can't find out if the type of NAND in the Wii-U is the older 5,000 writes or the newer 3,000 writes. In any case I still would want to wait until all modding is possible on the Wii-U before I switch so in the mean time I am trying to extend the life of my Wii as much as possible which I can only do by limiting usage of the real NAND.

EDIT: I found a thread where a NAND Chip has been replaced with a "NAND ZIF Socket" to hot swap a Wii NAND. In theory I imagine with the right set up and if your original Wii keys were intact on the original Wii Chip you could make a set up to indefinitely replace NAND chips, but that seems like it would be a great deal of work especially since the bad blocks on each NAND chip from the factory won't exactly line up.

Legally, yes only via real nand or sd channel (I also think i've heard that forwarders like wad2iso will cause online to work, but i am not sure. Ditto about neek2o as well).

Just so you know, you can simply install the dlc wad to the same emunand as the game.
I did just that for the Phoenix Wight, Puzzle Bobble and Bubble Bobble DLC and it works flawlessly.

Oh, I have the DLC correctly installed. I was able to confirm that through Neek2o. It's just that the DLC doesn't want to work with USB Loader GX, at least not with the "Full" setting. Will try partial and see if that helps.

About the savegame management, i recommend SaveGame Manager GX. It transfers saves between real NAND, emunand and SD folder.

Can this program manage WiiWare saves?

 

[nakata6790]

As long as the wiiware saves are in your real Nand or in the emunand, then yes SGM GX will copy them from one place to the other, just like the retail games' ones. It even copies protected saves like those for online games.

P.S. Thanks for the info on NAND.

-- EDIT --

Do SD and/or USB also have a finite amount of rewrites?

 

[Elliander]

Can this program manage WiiWare saves?[/quote]

As long as the wiiware saves are in your real Nand or in the emunand, then yes SGM GX will copy them from one place to the other, just like the retail games' ones. It even copies protected saves like those for online games.

That's really good to know. Will it work between different EmuNANDs?

P.S. Thanks for the info on NAND.

Do SD and/or USB also have a finite amount of rewrites?

Yes, all solid state drives have a write limit. That includes SD cards and solid state hard drives. There are key differences though. For example, the newest solid state hard drives set aside 4 GB of storage space as unusable. When a section has been overwritten too many times it uses reserved memory instead. Of course, that is only a 4 GB buffer. If you overwrite more than 4 GB up to that limit the drive will still break down. Another key difference is capacity. It's not that it is limited to 5,000 total writes - it is that it is limited to 5,000 writes for each sector.

For example, let's say you buy a solid state USB hard drive to store your backup games on. Assuming you only use that drive to load those games and only ever write to the drive to add new games you will never have overwritten any data. In that scenario the lifespan of a solid state hard drive can far exceed that of a magnetic USB hard drive.

Magnetic storage doesn't have the limited number of writes problem, but the magnetic storage does weaken over time. I have some hard drives that still work even after 15 years, but most of mine die well within the 10 year projective life span.

In the case of your SD card which you write to more often it will inevitably fail, but unlike the Wii NAND it's a very simple matter to keep a backup of your SD data (I have a backup folder on my computer) and use a different card the moment it fails.

(Personally, I would really like it if I could get a custom path to have my gamecube saves folder on the SD card so I only have one device I am writing to.)

 

[JonesRace05]

If you actually read the datasheet for the wii's NAND you'll find that each block is guaranteed to last at least 100,000 program/erase cycles, not 5,000. That alone is more than enough to last the wii's lifecycle. The WiiU also uses the same type of NAND for primary storage, the 8GB/32GB NAND chip is separate.

 

[Elliander]

If you actually read the datasheet for the wii's NAND you'll find that each block is guaranteed to last at least 100,000 program/erase cycles, not 5,000. That alone is more than enough to last the wii's lifecycle. The WiiU also uses the same type of NAND for primary storage, the 8GB/32GB NAND chip is separate.

I have never heard of a NAND chip with 100,000 writes. At least not without a secondary mechanism to replace damaged sections of memory. The last I heard the number or writes were decreasing - not increasing - as part of an overall strategy to cut production costs. Are you sure this datasheet is accurate? And are you sure this is what the Wii uses?

I am aware that the Wii is using the TSOP48, and this is listed as 48TSOP1. They look the same, but are they the same? More importantly: If these are the same thing is it by the same company? Often times the same product can contain chipsets made by different companies which in turn means different sets of standards and support. Do you have any sources to indicate that all Wii and Wii-U units use this exact NAND by this exact company? Or is at least produced with these exact specifications?

 

[nakata6790]

That's really good to know. Will it work between different EmuNANDs?

Yes, you can edit the emunand path on the fly and transfer saves from and to: emunand(s), realnand, an sd or usb folder (/savegames is the default) and emumii (this backs up your miis). In fact it has a GUI very much
like usbloader GX, it's very user friendly.

BTW, also, on PC you can easily backup all your emunand saves with Showmiiwads 1.4. When looking at your emunand, right click mouse and select saves--> backup all.