Gaming Time Hollow

[Deleted member 67270]

I think you're supposed to fix it before putting out the fire at the tree house. What you do is examine the ladder and tighten the string on it or something.

 

[Ruri]

I think you're supposed to fix it before putting out the fire at the tree house. What you do is examine the ladder and tighten the string on it or something.

Yeah. It causes minor changes to some dialog at a few other points (he talks about going to practice and so forth), but nothing significant, and it doesn't seem to impact the ending at all (at least, not that I noticed -- I fixed it on my one playthrough, so I have nothing to compare it to.)

It makes me wonder what else you can change. I know you can change between getting cookies/card early on (not that it matters, as it will eventually get replaced with another clock anyway.)

 

[Cermage]

I think the character names are kinda weird. C'mon, ONEgin, FOURier, FIVEt, SIXon, NINEr, TENneson.
Really, couldn't they come up with better names? Well, it doesn't really matter because only their last names are stupid..

URR HURRR DURRR. as i said in the release thread, notice how the names only go up to twelve? then look at a clock. then look at the names, then look at a clock. get it yet?

 

[ackers]

Does anyone else hate it when you're like 'WTF do I do next??' and you're trying every location possible, tapping everything on the screen, waiting for something to happen? I HATE those moments! Other than that, it's a very good game.

 

[Killerbon]

Does anyone else hate it when you're like 'WTF do I do next??' and you're trying every location possible, tapping everything on the screen, waiting for something to happen? I HATE those moments! Other than that, it's a very good game.

Didn't have those moments

So there is more cutscenes on the anime version?

@mishra: Yeah, like I don't already know that the names match with the clock. Sure it fits the idea of the game, but.. whatever

 

[Masked]

Wait, I thought of a few things involving the $1 million dollars example Irving gives you, where if you send $1 million back into the past, it will disappear in its new timeline at the point in time at which it was sent in its original timeline. Wouldn't that meant that the 2nd Sox (who I'm guessing is wandering around outside) should disappear at the end of the game as soon as you open up the hole to send back the original Sox with the pen attached? (Meaning no Soxes exist anymore in the current timeline) If I'm right here, then the ending FMV scene is contradictory, since it shows a Sox next to Ethan as he wakes up.

Also I guess this explains why Uncle Derek said in his letter that he would be "gone" or whatever by the time Ethan read the letter (since he would have disappeared).

The ending results is that Ethan only gets one Sox instead of 2. During the course of the game, he has two Sox running around (One in town and the other one on his bed).

As for future Derek, I think he just assumed the identity of Jack Twombly (aka the "real" one) because he's now from an alternate universe since he saved Kori. This means that the universe where he came from is different than the one Kori and his past self are since Kori doesn't exist in his future. That's why past Derek and Kori are currently in Ethan's time. As for the letter, I think it means that future Derek will become known as someone else in order to avoid confusion between him and his past self. Though it is never mentioned in the game about the real Jack Twombly being Derek, I have many reasons that supports this theory.

Derek can't be Jack Twombly because Jack Twombly was Derek and Ethan's dad's teacher and Ethan's dad would have noticed something that weird since he would have to meet his son's teacher at some point. According to Irving (as Twombly) an object that was sent back in time disappears from whatever timeline it was sent into at the moment in time when they were originally sent in its original timeline (like if on 1/1/2008 I sent an object 5 years into the past to 1/1/2003, it would disappear from existence in its new timeline on the date of 1/1/2008), so I'm guessing that's what happened to Derek. But who knows... this game isn't consistent at all in its logic, so maybe you're right.

As for the Sox thing, what I was saying was kinda confusing but think about it this way. Before the game starts Ethan starts out with Sox A, then when the hole opens at the beginning and he receives the pen, that's Sox B (from the future). At the end of the game, Ethan sends Sox A back in time, leaving him only with Sox B. However, since objects disappear in their new timeline when the point of time at which they left their original timeline (like Irving as Twombly said and I mentioned before), Sox B would disappear as soon as he sent Sox A back in time. So... all of his Soxes are gone. Unless if there are more than two Soxes, some of which were sent even into the present by even farther into the future which just complicates things, the ending FMV showing Sox by Ethan's bed is confusing.

On a side note does anyone understand how Twombly became Irving? Irving/Twombly tried to explain it but the explanation was so weird I couldn't understand it

Yeah, I'm probably thinking way too much about this game... there are some serious continuity errors

 

[thedicemaster]

>_<
irving got rid of twombly and wrote in his ID "jack twombly" it's as simple as that.



and the cat, in the end he will have 1 cat.
the cat lives through the entire storyline twice, what you call sox A will be sent back in time, the becoming sox B, sox B is then lives through the whole storyline again and will be the one with ethan after all the time abuse ends.
you can see it a bit like a looping in a rollercoaster, viewed from above.

 

[Ruri]

As for the Sox thing, what I was saying was kinda confusing but think about it this way. Before the game starts Ethan starts out with Sox A, then when the hole opens at the beginning and he receives the pen, that's Sox B (from the future). At the end of the game, Ethan sends Sox A back in time, leaving him only with Sox B. However, since objects disappear in their new timeline when the point of time at which they left their original timeline (like Irving as Twombly said and I mentioned before), Sox B would disappear as soon as he sent Sox A back in time. So... all of his Soxes are gone. Unless if there are more than two Soxes, some of which were sent even into the present by even farther into the future which just complicates things, the ending FMV showing Sox by Ethan's bed is confusing.

On a side note does anyone understand how Twombly became Irving? Irving/Twombly tried to explain it but the explanation was so weird I couldn't understand it

Yeah, I'm probably thinking way too much about this game... there are some serious continuity errors

The problem is that Irving's million-dollar explanation doesn't fit with the way things worked out. His explanation went like this:

Say you have a million dollars. You send it five minutes into the past with your Time Hollow. Now, time resolves and you have a million dollars (from the past), but you don't have be million dollars you just put into the hole using your Time Hollow (that's obvious, right?)

So you only have one Derek, and only one Sox, because you put one in the hole and got a duplicate back from the past. So far, so good... everything makes sense.

Except for two little things. First: If you send something back, that changes the past... and now there's a good chance you didn't put the million dollars (or the Sox, or Derek) into the hole after all. (The game acknowledges this by the way you seem to 'teleport' every time you use your Time Hollow -- because, of course, since history was different, you never went to the place where you used your Time Hollow, and never actually used it.) Needless to say, this is a paradox. No, having the time-shifted duplicate magically disappear eventually for no adequately explained reason does not explain this, although the game wants that to be the answer, due to the second point...

Second: The game really, really, really wants the Derek that remains at the end of the game, and the Irving that explains the million-dollar question to you, to be the 'original' ones -- the ones that never went into the hole. As you'll see if you look at the initial explanation for the million-dollar question, this doesn't work (the reason you only have one Sox, Derek, or Irving is because you put that original into the whole... so the one that's left is the time-shifted duplicate.) It's perfectly logical that way, except that that would mean that the Irving present in the game wouldn't be able to use his Time Hollow after first going into the hole, and the Derek who married his childhood sweetheart would not be the one left at the end of the game (hardly a happy ending -- she'd be left with a copy of her husband that she never knew.)

The game doesn't really care which Sox you end up with, but since that one is a Stable Time Loop (you must put Sox into the hole in every iteration, or you never receive your Time Hollow and everything falls apart) common sense says you'd have to be left with the time-shifted duplicate. (Otherwise, you have two totally unconnected Soxes, one that constantly loops back and one that never goes into the hole at all -- which makes no sense. Having Sox slip back and then live forwards again makes relatively good time-travel sense, even if it doesn't fit with the rest of the series logic.)

Basically, long story short: The game had to screw all its explanations up and create bizarre magical rules about time-shifted duplicates disappearing because it wanted to ensure that the "right" Derek and Irving were left after their loops were resolved, even though common sense would say you'd have the "wrong" ones left (the ones who have been through the hole.)

Oh, and as for the original Jack Twombly... Irving, um, Irving politely talked him into retiring. Yes. He gave Twombly a penson and Twombly retired somewhere and lived happily ever after. That is what happened to Jack Twombly.

(Seriously, though, the obvious conclusion is that Irving killed him. If you want a less violent possibility, another option is that by taking his place way back when, Young Irving simply preempted him -- there was another, original Jack Twombly who would have applied for a job at the school at some point, but Irving was already working there, so the job opening didn't exist and Twombly's life went very differently. Honestly, killing him seems a bit pointless, since all Irving really has to do is get the job first. Not that that means he didn't kill him, what with Irving being a psychopath and all.)

Then again, the game also accidentally implies that you should have a romantic relationship with your cousin at the end, so maybe we shouldn't look at it too closely (seriously, that is going to be awkward.)

Another interesting point I wondered about: Irving sends himself into the past. Simple enough. He changes things, which influence your entire life. You live through all that... presumably, you have no idea who Irving is that entire time? And then, suddenly, when you hit the point in the timeline when Irving went through the hole (in the old timeline) everything hits your head in a massive burst of flashbacks?

I mean, that does seem to be the way it works, but it's a little odd. The game presents flashbacks as being the memories of the 'new' timeline (usually what you know about the new timeline is only whatever you can glean from those flashbacks), but from the perspective of everyone else, the moment of the flashbacks is when you get the memories of the old timeline -- if Twomby-Irving was in the room with you when you reached that point, say, from his perspective you would in an instant go from seeing him as your friendly teacher Twomby to seeing him as the evil time-traveler Irving.

...so, given all that, why did Irving wait until you regained those memories before getting his revenge? From his perspective, after he enters the hole, you are helpless for almost your entire life, and the logical time to attack you would have been just after he kills your parents (before you regain your memories relating to him.) But for some reason, he waited until you regained your memories so you could fight back.

I think that this movie sums the whole thing up nicely...

 

[Killerbon]

If you decide to send Sox to the past later,
then when you go look around the town, you will see multiple soxes, not just two.
Ethan says something like "It seems like that there is Sox-clones wandering around the town"

 

[spyke]

This game was so awesome imo. a bit of a mind-bender trying to follow the logic behind it...severly obscured for the game but it all fit in nicely.
the little 2nd playthru was a nice little touch i thought.
i would be defintly interested in a sequel, different characters (if needed), story, new gameplay elements with opening open holes...they could easily expand it.

despite being short, it was a killer story.

 

[Law]

Maybe a game from Irving's point of view with an alternative ending (What would happen if Irving won)?

I'd play it.

 

[Killerbon]

This game was so awesome imo. a bit of a mind-bender trying to follow the logic behind it...severly obscured for the game but it all fit in nicely.
the little 2nd playthru was a nice little touch i thought.
i would be defintly interested in a sequel, different characters (if needed), story, new gameplay elements with opening open holes...they could easily expand it.

despite being short, it was a killer story.

Different characters? NoooooOOOOOOOOOO
I like the characters, nothing wrong about them. If they decide to make a sequel, sure it should have new characters but I wouldn't like it that much if they would replace the characters.
It would be awesome if you could open a hole whenever you want to. Then you would have to use your brains.

 

[twenty2life]

ok so you want the title song? download it here: http://www.uploadpak3.com/freeupload/downl...b1acf40fdb762eb

 

[Rock Raiyu]

This game was so awesome imo. a bit of a mind-bender trying to follow the logic behind it...severly obscured for the game but it all fit in nicely.
the little 2nd playthru was a nice little touch i thought.
i would be defintly interested in a sequel, different characters (if needed), story, new gameplay elements with opening open holes...they could easily expand it.

despite being short, it was a killer story.

Different characters? NoooooOOOOOOOOOO
I like the characters, nothing wrong about them. If they decide to make a sequel, sure it should have new characters but I wouldn't like it that much if they would replace the characters.
It would be awesome if you could open a hole whenever you want to. Then you would have to use your brains.

Spoiler

But Ethan no longer has the Hollow Pen so they'd have to make a new game..with maybe some returning characters.

The game was really good. It had me hooked, I hope there's a sequel to it. It's supposedly a "spiritual successor" of Shadow of Memories series for the PS2 so maybe they'll make another.

 

[Ruri]

Spoiler

But Ethan no longer has the Hollow Pen so they'd have to make a new game..with maybe some returning characters.

No, he does have a Hollow Pen. Think about the timeline -- his father is going to give him the pen, then he gets a second Hollow Pen from himself via the hole. That is the one he sends back. Since at the end his father and mother never get attacked, the sequence of events where they were about to give him the pen never get disrupted -- so after he sends back the Hollow Pen he got from Sox, his father gives him the real Hollow Pen as normal.

 

[Kerian]

Since at the end his father and mother never get attacked, the sequence of events where they were about to give him the pen never get disrupted -- so after he sends back the Hollow Pen he got from Sox, his father gives him the real Hollow Pen as normal.

I think he caused a loop when he tried to set things right at the end of the game - Koris appearance seems to be indicating that. O_O

 

[Killerbon]

Since at the end his father and mother never get attacked, the sequence of events where they were about to give him the pen never get disrupted -- so after he sends back the Hollow Pen he got from Sox, his father gives him the real Hollow Pen as normal.

I think he caused a loop when he tried to set things right at the end of the game - Koris appearance seems to be indicating that. O_O

It's not Kori. It's Derek's and Kori's daughter. I think he made the timeloop thingie so that there wouldn't be Sox clones all over the place and he sent his second pen that he got from his future-self, to his past-self, who would send it to his past-self and so on.

 

[Kaan]

yes he got the real pen from his father who was never absent but you should not forget that he didnt get it from his father at the start of the game! just think back to the end, when you made the last time hole and you put sox and the pen to the school garbage thingie to avoid a paradox!
life goes on for him/you but without the pen

 

[pka4916]

i am stuck on this for days , can really use some help.

im on day 3, where i need to look for the dog, i looked / tapped everywhere on the map and areas where i can go..... i can't find him.
so i am stuck where they are all sitting upfront the cafem and no one talks anymore.

what am i missing here??

 

[unz]

Lucky the dog should be...

Spoiler

...at the intersection, left from the Chronos Cafe on the map.