The benefits of Brexit - the future of the United Kingdom

[Saiyan Lusitano]

Just one example of many that I have, if the UK stays in the EU Organization then they'll also be blocked from accessing millions of videos on the web specifically YouTube, and being able to visualize websites and use apps because they're part of the EU.

As long as a country is in the EU, these companies block EU-IPs altogether whether people like it or not.

Now, don't confuse EU with Europe because by what YouTube Creators said on Twitter, it looks as though it "only" applies to countries affiliated with the EU.

There's of course far more serious and important matters that the EU is guilty of but this is a good example.

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EU states

That's one of the things the EU wants to enforce and do. Rename European countries as "states" of the EU and have their EU Empire and EU Army.

Isn't that just wonderful!

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stabbing the eu in the back

Hotel California's song puts it perfectly:

"You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!"

That's why it's so hard for European countries to leave the EU but a breeze to enter the EU.

 

[JoeBloggs777]

You do know that Belgium is gonna be nuclear free by 2025 and we've been coal plant free for a long time now. That sounds pretty clean to me

how are they going to generate electricity ?

 

[smf]

The common market demands subservience to multinational business interests tout court,

They hide it by suing multinationals. They are interested in business, because without it there is no money. But not at the expense of the people, because that is a dumb move. However it is what motivated the leave vote, the rich elite that fund your conspiracy theories so they can make even more money by subjugating you. You bought it hook line and sinker.

This is all supposed to be the negotiated compromise as well.

If you're a leaver who chants "two world wars and one world cup" and thinks that because you won a referendum that the world owes you a living, then sure it's a bit of a disappointment. If you are attached to reality then you'll realise that it couldn't have been any better and in fact it could have been much worse.

I do think that it should be public knowledge what you voted. Anyone who wants hard brexit should be at the back of the queue when we get ration books.

how are they going to generate electricity ?

https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/belgium-pledges-to-ditch-nuclear-power-by-2025/

Hotel California's song puts it perfectly:

"You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!"

That's why it's so hard for European countries to leave the EU but a breeze to enter the EU.

That is your own racist prejudice. If you look at the facts on how long it takes to join, how many changes (stop abusing your own people etc) that you have to go through, you'd realise how hard it is to join. Just look at Turkey, they started the process nearly 20 years ago but have now decided that abusing their own people was too important to them.

We can easily leave the EU, the problem is that less than half the population wanted to plunge us back into the dark ages and there are still some grown ups that are trying to save the country from the traitor leave voters.

If we want to starve and have renewed fighting in Ireland then we could leave in March. The people brainwashing the leave voters are already setup with money off shore in case things go bad in the UK. What about you?

While https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/poli...-six-possible-brexit-shitshows-20181119179543 is satire, it covers the situation ahead pretty well.

 

[kumikochan]

how are they going to generate electricity ?

half of the country already has solar panels, it's becoming almost impossible to see houses without solar panels these days. half of the country is already filled with windmills and that will only increase future wise. Green electricity companies in Belgium like Lampiris and Eneco are massively investing in solar power plants and windmill parks

 

[JoeBloggs777]

half of the country already has solar panels, it's becoming almost impossible to see houses without solar panels these days. half of the country is already filled with windmills and that will only increase future wise. Green electricity companies in Belgium like Lampiris and Eneco are massively investing in solar power plants and windmill parks

well it's good to see Official data released by the UK government has shown that wind and solar power generation outstripped nuclear in the fourth quarter, for the very first time. from the link posted by smf
(thanks smf)

well I'm not sure if we save much with the Solar Panels we have on our roof (not enough sunshine) but I'm one of the 800,0000

https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/social-housing-solar-uk-mb0190/

 

[smf]

half of the country is already filled with windmills and that will only increase future wise.

Unfortunately the crooked tories are only allowing off shore windmills in the uk, which are considerably less efficient than on shore. There will be a fiddle going on there somewhere.

 

[kumikochan]

well it's good to see Official data released by the UK government has shown that wind and solar power generation outstripped nuclear in the fourth quarter, for the very first time. from the link posted by smf
(thanks smf)

well I'm not sure if we save much with the Solar Panels we have on our roof (not enough sunshine) but I'm one of the 800,0000

https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/social-housing-solar-uk-mb0190/

Well the weather here is kinda the same tho since Belgium and the UK are that close 2 each other but good that ur one of the few then.

 

[smf]

well I'm not sure if we save much with the Solar Panels we have on our roof (not enough sunshine) but I'm one of the 800,0000

https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/social-housing-solar-uk-mb0190/

Unfortunately the solar pv industry is essentially full of criminals.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rable-energy-savings-manchester-a8565851.html

I had a couple of chancers come round to me and I made them backup all the promises they made, when they tried to run the figures it wasn't self funding like they claimed.

Solar panels are great if you have a lot of sunshine or live in an area where it's hard to get electricity. Brexit won't change the former, but it may change the later.

At the moment solar is dead in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...olar-power-subsidies-costs-battery-technology

The increased production of solar power was due to the heat wave, which is kinda difficult to plan for ("we've solved the uk power problem, all we have to do is pray for a heat wave for 12 months of the year and god will make it happen").

 

[JoeBloggs777]

Unfortunately the solar pv industry is essentially full of criminals.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rable-energy-savings-manchester-a8565851.html

I had a couple of chancers come round to me and I made them backup all the promises they made, when they tried to run the figures it wasn't self funding like they claimed.

Solar panels are great if you have a lot of sunshine or live in an area where it's hard to get electricity. Brexit won't change the former, but it may change the later.

At the moment solar is dead in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...olar-power-subsidies-costs-battery-technology

on a council estate near me in sunnyless Salford at least half of the houses have Solar panels and to be honest I'm wondering if they work all . I think they said we would save £10 a week on electric but I'm still spending the same amount on electricity each month. This has to have been a scam funded by the tax payer.

 

[kumikochan]

on a council estate near me in sunnyless Salford at least half of the houses have Solar panels and to be honest I'm wondering if they work all . I think they said we would save £10 a week on electric but I'm still spending the same amount on electricity each month. This has to have been a scam funded by the tax payer.

well that's not how it works here atleast. Could be a scam if ur still paying the same amount.

 

[smf]

on a council estate near me in sunnyless Salford at least half of the houses have Solar panels and to be honest I'm wondering if they work all . I think they said we would save £10 a week on electric but I'm still spending the same amount on electricity each month. This has to have been a scam funded by the tax payer.

If you went with one of the companies that installed it for free, then the only saving you'll get is if you use electricity when it's really sunny as they take all the subsidies and "fit" payments.

Most people don't use much during the day, which is why using it to power an immersion heater was popular when you weren't allowed batteries. But I don't think the free providers will have fitted one for you and if you have gas then it's not reducing your electricity bill, but your gas bill. It's possible you haven't noticed because energy has been going up, you are potentially slightly better off.

You can have problems with meters, especially if the fitters were cowboys.

It would be hard for me to save £10 a week on electricity, I don't use that much. My energy bills don't work in the scammers dodgy equations.

You always want a standard house. Freehold, not leasehold. Gas central heating, not electricity. 230v lighting, not 12v. I'll consider solar pv when all the downsides have been been worked out, probably another 10 years.

People should have learned their lesson with diesel cars. A similar scam turned up in electric cars, with people buying hybrid cars because they got a subsidy and then never used the electric part of it. They'll have to prise my petrol manual gearbox car from my dead hands.

 

[FAST6191]

If you're a leaver who chants "two world wars and one world cup" and thinks that because you won a referendum that the world owes you a living, then sure it's a bit of a disappointment. If you are attached to reality then you'll realise that it couldn't have been any better and in fact it could have been much worse.

I do think that it should be public knowledge what you voted. Anyone who wants hard brexit should be at the back of the queue when we get ration books.

I am going to have to disagree. Clauses in that I would expect any nation to go with possibly outside of a full military defeat, timelines that make little sense and just nothing I would expect a top tier rich country negotiating the deal of a lifetime to allow to slip in there.

It absolutely could have been worse and I fully expect the EU to lord its power and position over the UK, and try to bring some serious weight to bear, to get some timelines pushed up, monies sent a bit higher, maybe some other more favourable things. Unless you were going more cynical and more along the lines of "with the people they put in charge, or hamstrung, then what did you expect?" then I will give you that one. Otherwise I was expecting something like a copy paste of Norway or Switzerland with some of the necessary specifics hammered out.

 

[kumikochan]

I am going to have to disagree. Clauses in that I would expect any nation to go with possibly outside of a full military defeat, timelines that make little sense and just nothing I would expect a top tier rich country negotiating the deal of a lifetime to allow to slip in there.

It absolutely could have been worse and I fully expect the EU to lord its power and position over the UK, and try to bring some serious weight to bear, to get some timelines pushed up, monies sent a bit higher, maybe some other more favourable things. Unless you were going more cynical and more along the lines of "with the people they put in charge, or hamstrung, then what did you expect?" then I will give you that one. Otherwise I was expecting something like a copy paste of Norway or Switzerland with some of the necessary specifics hammered out.

The thing is people keep expecting the same deal as with Norway and Switzerland but the thing is those countries never screwed the Union one over while the UK did. They also never left the union since they weren't a part of it and signed a treaty with the union. What the UK did is basically screwing the union one over so ofcourse they're not gonna get the same deal as Norway and Switzerland. What do people expect ? That somebody is screwing you over and you're gonna give them presents on top of it. The world doesn't work that way and that's for the better

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

The Brexit debacle shows that democracy does not work.

The existence of the referendum happened by chance (or due to miscalculation of the former prime minister)
even though it is the will of the majority of the people

People then voted for a party that does not want Brexit (they voted "strategically")

Therefore, I predict there will be another election in which, AGAIN, a party which does not really want Brexit will do even worse.
I feel bad for the British, but then again, this nonsense also goes on in other countries.

 

[JoeBloggs777]

The thing is people keep expecting the same deal as with Norway and Switzerland but the thing is those countries never screwed the Union one over while the UK did. They also never left the union since they weren't a part of it and signed a treaty with the union. What the UK did is basically screwing the union one over so ofcourse they're not gonna get the same deal as Norway and Switzerland. What do people expect ? That somebody is screwing you over and you're gonna give them presents on top of it. The world doesn't work that way and that's for the better

in what ways has the UK screwed the EU ?

we had a democratic vote and voted out, if anyone screwed any one over its the unelected Brussels Bureaucrats that forced Ireland to vote again on the Lisbon treaty. where's the democracy there ?

 

[kumikochan]

in what ways has the UK screwed the EU ?

we had a democratic vote and voted out, if anyone screwed any one over its the unelected Brussels Bureaucrats that forced Ireland to vote again on the Lisbon treaty. where's the democracy there ?

are you being sarcastic ? In what way did the UK screw the Union over ? Well i would advise you to learn a bit about all the extra costs that have to be done and so much more that i can't even write here.
Well in the end all i can say is this.
The UK is more dependent on the EU than vice versa given that 12.6% of UK GDP is linked to
exports to the EU wheareas only 3.1% of GDP among the other 27 Member States is linked
to exports to the UK. The EU is the destination of 44% of UK exports and 60% of total UK trade
is covered by EU membership and the preferential access it grants to 53 markets outside the EU. If
TTIP and other current negotiations succeed this could increase to 85%.
The only plausible model for a relationship where the UK could gain substantial access to the Single Market without requiring freedom of movement is the bilateral EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA). However, according to
the UK Treasury, such an agreement would result in a 6.2% smaller UK GDP in 2031, a £4,300 decrease in household income and an annual £36 billion “black hole” in tax receipts, equivalent to a little more than one third of the NHS budget.
Upon looking at and assessing a variety of reports and analyses, it is clear that a British exit from the EU will carry with it large economic and political costs. It will also reduce the UK’s standing in the world and its ability to influence the international events that affect it the most. It is also evident that none of the alternative relations with the EU presents itself as more advantageous compared to EU membership. For these reasons we can conclude that leaving the EU will be a historical mistake of paramount proportions, one whose effects will be felt sharply in the short term and have a lasting impact on the UK for many years to come

 

[JoeBloggs777]

are you being sarcastic ? In what way did the UK screw the Union over ? Well i would advise you to learn a bit about all the extra costs that have to be done and so much more that i can't even write here.
Well in the end all i can say is this.
The UK is more dependent on the EU than vice versa given that 12.6% of UK GDP is linked to
exports to the EU wheareas only 3.1% of GDP among the other 27 Member States is linked
to exports to the UK. The EU is the destination of 44% of UK exports and 60% of total UK trade
is covered by EU membership and the preferential access it grants to 53 markets outside the EU. If
TTIP and other current negotiations succeed this could increase to 85%.
The only plausible model for a relationship where the UK could gain substantial access to the Single Market without requiring freedom of movement is the bilateral EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA). However, according to
the UK Treasury, such an agreement would result in a 6.2% smaller UK GDP in 2031, a £4,300 decrease in household income and an annual £36 billion “black hole” in tax receipts, equivalent to a little more than one third of the NHS budget.
Upon looking at and assessing a variety of reports and analyses, it is clear that a British exit from the EU will carry with it large economic and political costs. It will also reduce the UK’s standing in the world and its ability to influence the international events that affect it the most. It is also evident that none of the alternative relations with the EU presents itself as more advantageous compared to EU membership. For these reasons we can conclude that leaving the EU will be a historical mistake of paramount proportions, one whose effects will be felt sharply in the short term and have a lasting impact on the UK for many years to come

predictions for 2031 ! who knows whats going to happen next year never-mind in 13years time.

you mention the UK is more dependent on the EU. but the UK is one of the main contributors to the EU budget, the top few countries will soon have to pay more. we buy more from the EU than we sell to the EU.

 

[kumikochan]

predictions for 2031 ! who knows whats going to happen next year never-mind in 13years time.

you mention the UK is more dependent on the EU. but the UK is one of the main contributors to the EU budget, the top few countries will soon have to pay more. we buy more from the EU than we sell to the EU.

Eum No, ur forgetting who is funding billions of euro's for research done by researchers in the UK, those same top researchers from the UK regarding medicine, technology and so forth just all anounced they will be immigrating to the Union because they can't finish their research without the EU funding them so in order to do research they'll all be moving the union.
Here's a great link showing how the Union funds countless of projects in the UK well atleast till the brexit happens
https://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/business-funding/eu-funding/examples_en
Then taken from another link and that's just from 2013
''The UK is one of the largest recipients of research funding in the EU. Over the period 2007 – 2013 the UK received €8.8 billion out of a total of €107 billion expenditure on research, development and innovation in EU Member States, associated and third countries. This represents the fourth largest share in the EU.

In terms of funding awarded on a competitive basis in the period 2007 – 2013 (Framework Programme 7), the UK was the second largest recipient after Germany, securing €6.9 billion out of a total of €55.4 billion.''
Also https://digitalpublications.parliam.../2018/9/28/European-Union-funding-in-Scotland
Also more funds and money from the union towards the UK that will soon be gone https://www.threerivers.gov.uk/egcl-page/european-union-funding|
And a smaller view on the matter regarding funding from the union
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...uk-receives-most-eu-funding-and-how-does-thi/
Also one of the reason the UK was always complaining was that some get more then others but that's because those countries that have less are way ahead in time compared to other countries wich need additional extra funding to grow and make the union as a whole stronger. A union only works if every country is equal and not one more powerful than the other.

 

[smf]

It absolutely could have been worse and I fully expect the EU to lord its power and position over the UK,

I'm confused, is it only the UK that is allowed to lord it's power and position?

We entered the EU after our Empire failed, we didn't give back all the countries we stole but it was ok because we were all involved in the same union. Now we want to leave that union and the EU quite rightly think we shouldn't have our cake and eat it.

If we gave back northern ireland and gibralta and were happy for our industry to collapse and supermarket shelves to have less food available then we could leave the EU in march easily. Giving in to the tantrum of the leave voters would be a mistake.

Otherwise I was expecting something like a copy paste of Norway or Switzerland with some of the necessary specifics hammered out.

Norway has ECJ jurisdiction and free movement of people, there is no way Theresa "Go Home Vans/Hostile Environment" May would accept that.

But that is the future trading relationship which hasn't been agreed yet. This deal is just about withdrawing. The racist ERG led by Rees Mog wants shot of the EU as quickly as possible.

its the unelected Brussels Bureaucrats

You understand that they are appointed by people that we have elected and so it's no different to the house of lords, prime minister & civil servants, where they aren't directly elected but are still democratically appointed?

Any time you make the point about EU being non democratic, you reveal your own prejudice and ignorance. The EU is a far better democracy than the UK banana republic.

 

[FAST6191]

I'm confused, is it only the UK that is allowed to lord it's power and position?

We entered the EU after our Empire failed, we didn't give back all the countries we stole but it was ok because we were all involved in the same union. Now we want to leave that union and the EU quite rightly think we shouldn't have our cake and eat it.

If we gave back northern ireland and gibralta and were happy for our industry to collapse and supermarket shelves to have less food available then we could leave the EU in march easily. Giving in to the tantrum of the leave voters would be a mistake.



Norway has ECJ jurisdiction and free movement of people, there is no way Theresa "Go Home Vans/Hostile Environment" May would accept that.

But that is the future trading relationship which hasn't been agreed yet. This deal is just about withdrawing. The racist ERG led by Rees Mog wants shot of the EU as quickly as possible.

Of course not. I expect everybody to play to their strengths and try to use their particular leverages to get a deal that probably satisfies nobody's fantasy but works for everybody. This appears almost like capitulation from a bunch of incompetents.

Gibralta is a weird place so I will contemplate that one later but "give back" Northern Ireland? What is there to "give back"? If it was a recently acquired territory or something then possibly but this is a centuries settled bit of land, some seriously dubious stuff done to do it said centuries agao but I don't see a good reason to uproot things there. To forgo it without its own individual request and negotiations would be untenable from where I sit.

ECJ jurisdiction and free movement are indeed perks for the EU and if the UK is to forgo such things, or go for a lesser version, then I expect it to have a cost somewhere else in the negotiation. I am not seeing that kind of dealing though.

The thing is people keep expecting the same deal as with Norway and Switzerland but the thing is those countries never screwed the Union one over while the UK did. They also never left the union since they weren't a part of it and signed a treaty with the union. What the UK did is basically screwing the union one over so ofcourse they're not gonna get the same deal as Norway and Switzerland. What do people expect ? That somebody is screwing you over and you're gonna give them presents on top of it. The world doesn't work that way and that's for the better

[in what way is the UK screwing the EU over]

are you being sarcastic ? In what way did the UK screw the Union over ? Well i would advise you to learn a bit about all the extra costs that have to be done and so much more that i can't even write here.
Well in the end all i can say is this.
The UK is more dependent on the EU than vice versa given that 12.6% of UK GDP is linked to
exports to the EU wheareas only 3.1% of GDP among the other 27 Member States is linked
to exports to the UK. The EU is the destination of 44% of UK exports and 60% of total UK trade
is covered by EU membership and the preferential access it grants to 53 markets outside the EU. If
TTIP and other current negotiations succeed this could increase to 85%.
The only plausible model for a relationship where the UK could gain substantial access to the Single Market without requiring freedom of movement is the bilateral EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA). However, according to
the UK Treasury, such an agreement would result in a 6.2% smaller UK GDP in 2031, a £4,300 decrease in household income and an annual £36 billion “black hole” in tax receipts, equivalent to a little more than one third of the NHS budget.
Upon looking at and assessing a variety of reports and analyses, it is clear that a British exit from the EU will carry with it large economic and political costs. It will also reduce the UK’s standing in the world and its ability to influence the international events that affect it the most. It is also evident that none of the alternative relations with the EU presents itself as more advantageous compared to EU membership. For these reasons we can conclude that leaving the EU will be a historical mistake of paramount proportions, one whose effects will be felt sharply in the short term and have a lasting impact on the UK for many years to come

I don't know if I would amalgamate things that much and go a bit more specific where possible -- I am sure the Lithuanian banking industry is not going to feel the hurt as much as the German car one and thus straight talks of overall percentages is a bit weak.
Still if we take the numbers you have there then the UK is a bit of a do nothing/zero sum entity or even drag for the EU as far as what it adds to what it gets and is thus a net bonus in many respects for the EU for the UK to leave. In that case as it is the UK's own foot to shoot itself in ... and I quite agree that international shipping is not yet such that it is viable to blank or deal with the EU as an outside entity, and that banking/services is largely only done in the UK because English and easy access to the EU. That said it is probably not that clear cut and there are many industries that will face a fair few issues if the UK suddenly becomes far more expensive or non viable to deal with (probably up there in the margins they operate under and had calculated as a serious factor into their growth and income), said industries also have a fair bit of clout within their own countries.
To that end I would have to ask is the UK really screwing over the EU? Probably going to screw over itself, definitely if the quality of diplomats/negotiators on display thus far is anything to go by, and I fully expect the remaining EU parties to play hardball but to say screwing over is something I could see questioned.