Hacking [SPECULATION] Current State of Affairs for 3DS Flash Cards.

[b00100100]

Are there really enough people that kept their 3DSes in a firmware that is not compatible with any flashcards and doesn't allow access to the eShop? I seriously doubt it. In my case, as I own a flashcard already, I wouldn't rush and buy a new one unless it supports the actual latest firmware. 7.1 or GTFO.

Yes. I've had a 3DS with 6.x firmware for quite a while now. I went out and purchased an 4.5 XL simply so I could play new 3DS games. My 6.x 3DS just sits there untouched, hoping that a 6.x exploit is found. If a 7.x or 8.x or etc is found, then I can always update up to whatever version the exploit was found in, but I can never go back down... So what's in it for me to upgrade firmware? In general I try and avoid all updates for times like this.

 

[Nightwish]

An anonymous source of mine tells me that Wii U CPU's are made out of hearts of slaughtered kittens and the analog sticks of the gamepad are greased up with murdered puppy marrow. Those sources are totally legitimate, you can trust me because I said this on an Internet forum. Boycotting is the only way, people should stop buying WiiU's immediately.

This thread in a nutshell.

Heh, very true, but avoiding making a purchase right now before we know what's really going on would be a wise choice.

 

[Foxi4]

Heh, very true, but avoiding making a purchase right now before we know what's really going on would be a wise choice.

The way I see it, customers should just weigh the actual, real-life pros and cons of each product and make their own educated decision instead of relying on complete speculation. For all intents and purposes, Gateway is the only cart around that has updatable FPGA logic from the level of the console itself, which puts it one step higher than the rest of the bunch since it can be updated to function in any way imaginable without having to solder or use any specialized dongles. That said, MT-Card currently has the most superior function set out of all available flashcarts, but this can change at any given time. Flashcarts have always been a hit and miss kind of business, this kind of drama is nothing new, really.

 

[b00100100]

it's clear their original plan was to update the FPGA via the tag header via the 3ds.......at the time of the initial announcement about the FPGA update, there was some who claimed that the 3DS would not be capable of handling the JTAG programming of the FPGA, so if that is indeed true,

This is actually very easy to verify.... To verify the JTAG is hooked up, you just need to open up your card and use a multimeter to makes sure that the JTAG signals are connected. If you wanted to do that,

Page 144-145 of this doc http://www.actel.com/documents/PA3_DS.pdf shows you the pin locations and names. You would want to check for connectivity via a ohm meter by checking signals on page 145 TCK, TDI, TDO, and TMS. Pins 47, 48, 54, 49 respectively.

Looking at the picture Technicmaster0 posted on page 3 of this thread, I would guess that these signals should be connected from the FPGA (Actel ProASIC) to micro-controller (The unmarked quadpack on the other side of the board). Just guessing.

 

[Habbert]

nvm

 

[b00100100]

And I should have added... If the JTAG isnt hooked up, it's really very simple to program that device. All you need is a programming pod. Wouldnt even need to solder onto the FPGA... just clip it with some sort of logic analyzer probe, download Microsemi's free Gold software (you don't need their paid one to program these), and then connect the pod up, load the image (this is hard part... you'd need GW to release the FPGA image. that probably wont happen.). Although If someone gets their hands on a Version 2 card (im assuming a lot here), then you could just do a readback of the image. It's really very simple.


Edit - Good thing the title of their thread is Speculation.

 

[gamesquest1]

And I should have added... If the JTAG isnt hooked up, it's really very simple to program that device. All you need is a programming pod. Wouldnt even need to solder onto the FPGA... just clip it with some sort of logic analyzer probe, download Microsemi's free Gold software (you don't need their paid one to program these), and then connect the pod up, load the image (this is hard part... you'd need GW to release the FPGA image. that probably wont happen.). Although If someone gets their hands on a Version 2 card (im assuming a lot here), then you could just do a readback of the image. It's really very simple.


Edit - Good thing the title of their thread is Speculation.

yeah speculation is good for brewing up solutions to possible future problems.....now assuming the "cpu" rumor was true, they could of cut gateway loose because the platform wasn't secure enough against clones, so they held the new features back so they so they could protect them with extra security built into the card as launcher based security had obviously backfired. its clear from their last update they where thinking security security security, having a built in cpu to manage the security of their future firmware i imagine would be a good way of stopping clones,so they just screwed their original customers over to prevent the clones...if this was the case just getting the FPGA update wouldn't be enough.

 

[smealum]

Boycotting is the only way, people should stop buying WiiU's immediately.

it's not like people are buying them anyway

 

[Foxi4]

it's not like people are buying them anyway

Well-played.

 

[gamesquest1]

it's not like people are buying them anyway

i think i broke the boycott, but really the wii u isnt all as bad as people make out....its just the lack of games that's the problem

 

[josh_axey]

An anonymous source of mine tells me that Wii U CPU's are made out of hearts of slaughtered kittens and the analog sticks of the gamepad are greased up with murdered puppy marrow. Those sources are totally legitimate, you can trust me because I said this on an Internet forum. Boycotting is the only way, people should stop buying WiiU's immediately.


This thread in a nutshell.

I love you, man .

it's not like people are buying them anyway

 

[b00100100]

yeah speculation is good for brewing up solutions to possible future problems.....now assuming the "cpu" rumor was true, they could of cut gateway loose because the platform wasn't secure enough against clones, so they held the new features back so they so they could protect them with extra security built into the card as launcher based security had obviously backfired. its clear from their last update they where thinking security security security, having a built in cpu to manage the security of their future firmware i imagine would be a good way of stopping clones,so they just screwed their original customers over to prevent the clones...if this was the case just getting the FPGA update wouldn't be enough.

Assuming that the "cpu" rumor was true, that might be one of the only ways they could add security to their product. Honestly though, I personally don't believe they ability to truly prevent clones of their product. There really isn't a lot of board real-estate nor is their power budget decent enough to support adding a standalone "cpu".

You know what they could do though? They could replace their ProASIC3's with a pin compatible ProASIC3 with embedded CortexM1 SOC. Specifically this would be using part M1A3P250 instead of A3P250. They would have to add some sort of external software boot memory, and they would be sacrificing space inside of the FPGA... but that change would put a big dent in cloners ability and also require new cards.

You know what else they could do? They could actually use a Microsemi part that prevents JTAG readback... But they arent even doing that!

In general there are a lot of things they could be doing to protect their product, however they don't seem to be skilled enough to design that aspect correct. I find that puzzling, because the exploit and current design are really pretty amazing. How does one make something like that, yet not understand simple methods of FPGA security? it's bizarre.

 

[Deleted User]

Interesting to see more dumps

Poke x/y updates, transport, and pokebank

 

[lambstone]

Ok people, this seems like fun but really all we have here is a bunch of speculation based on the fact that Gateway seems to be taking forever to release 2.0 final and calm the waters.

Honestly, I could see it going either way as this is what is to be expected from HK flash cart companies. With that said I would like to point out that nothing is just 'useless' or 'obsolete' even if it gets no further updates. I have purchased dozens of flash carts since the original ones from the GB days (that used the horrible LPT flashers). I still use my old cards so if Gateway gets abandoned it will still be useful to run the games it can on the 4.x systems it supports. I have had it more than 6 months and already gotten good value out of it.

Also, lets not forget that many cards in the past that got abandoned in the past then got support from users in the community. Look at RetroGameFan who continues to provide updates for my abandoned M3i Zero card until the present day.

The only way Gateway is going to jump ship and launch a new product is if their hardware just won't/can't support multirom and they need to introduce new hardware to get the job done. In which case we could still see a 2.0 final or leak to give improved features/stability, it just won't support multi-rom.

What makes no sense to me is why would Gateway, who is ruling the world right now, go and re-launch under Evo3ds.....who has a less the stellar reputation and past? All EVO is doing is claiming the same features Gateway said is coming, well guess what R4 and 3DS-Link, and MT have all done the same thing. These groups all know Gateway is working on 2.0 final and just assume they can get it working with their product when it releases.

If there is a 6.x exploit and it needs new hardware then why not just release 2.0 final for their current customers and then position the new card?

I am an entrepreneur, and some of the things people spout in here really make no sense from a business standpoint.

In the end we won't know until we know, by Gateway releasing 2.0 final or just fading away and a new 2.0 supporting product emerges. I still have to finish Zelda, and Pokémon X and haven't even started Bravely Default or Kirby triple so for me there is plenty to do until this all sorts itself out.

The very definition of obsolete means out of date. The GW is in real danger of becoming so, but that is not to say that it will become useless. It will still remain useable until it physically breaks. However, compared to "existing" flash carts, it most definitely is obsolete.

It's hard for the GW card to get community support as the launcher.dat is encrypted and obfuscated. The people that are capable of doing meaningful reverse engineering aren't willing to do so. If the people capable of doing so are willing to, it'll still be pointless because a true CFW with sd card rom loading isn't that much different. In fact, this will render the GW and all other flash carts completely useless.

No, there are no signs. None at all there anyone has a 2.0f beta etc etc, its highly unlikely that there will ever be a leak especially with all signs suggesting that GW has abandoned ship.

GW had a humble start with no reputation, then it rose to fame, then with brickway-gate it crashed really badly, the lack of fulfillment of their promises does not help that case. Relaunching as Evo3ds with all the features that the community is eagerly waiting for will gain them some brownie points. There were also reports that GW were involved in the creation of MT-card, its not too far a stretch to extrapolate that they are involved with EVO3ds too.

Now, assuming that 6.x is indeed legit and requires new hardware, all the more GW would not release 2.0f for current customers. Since they are already having to push out new hardware, why not make the current hardware obsolete so that current customers would have to make purchases yet again. More purchases = more money.

Haha, now your last bit "I am an entrepreneur, and some of the things people spout in here really make no sense from a business standpoint." That's hilarious. While you're not wrong, you're not right either. You're forgetting that in the shady industry of flash carts built around questionable legality, conventional business models do not exist. Flash cart companies only exist to make money, they do not do it out of the inherent goodness of their hearts.

Interesting to see more dumps

Poke x/y updates, transport, and pokebank

Yeah, just for this mini speculation spin off, I presume the PokeX/Y updates will allow people using different region retail poke x/y to go online. It's interesting with the recent developments in 3ds.

 

[F417H]

Gotta point out at this stage EVO has had no actual mention of the 6.x exploit - That 'feature' was actually an accidental addition due to our rumor spinning. We're actually creating our own shit in our minds here... Building hype out of nothing lol. But hey, surely it'll be on EVO's home page 'soon' (IE; cart generation 3 perhaps?)

 

[lambstone]

Gotta point out at this stage EVO has had no actual mention of the 6.x exploit - That 'feature' was actually an accidental addition due to our rumor spinning. We're actually creating our own shit in our minds here... Building hype out of nothing lol. But hey, surely it'll be on EVO's home page 'soon' (IE; cart generation 3 perhaps?)

Wait what? People listed 6.x exploit as part of the EVO3ds feature list? Wow. It's just so.... inaccurate. Making facts up when they aren't there. The idea that a 6.x exploit exists is just floating around though, the idea is based on the information that have be provided via various channels. It's not verified, but there's a some rather supporting bits of info related to 6.x exploit.

***************** separate point ****************

If only the relevant people didn't have the stick of morality up their butts. It's hindering progress. It's not like you can stop piracy from growing. It's the frigging dark ages again. CFW will render flash cart businesses to become nonexistent. So in fact, you're sort of doing something good. Let's go with the assumption that there is no 6.x exploits, new owners 4.5 units are becoming increasingly rare. Those that already do either already are involved in pirating games or well.. why bother with 4.5 units. So why do the relevant people insist that they do not want to contribute to the state of piracy? Perhaps a sense of self entitlement? Perhaps while they are successful are homebrew and related hacks they actually haven't touched on rom playbacks yet? Well, the latter doesn't seem likely, they could easily release what they have and let someone else carry on the torch. But wait! Releasing what they have? Oh no, everyone else would have what they exclusive used to have. The sense of being special disappears. Another possibility is that refusal to release their current work is because 6.x exploits actually do exist. By releasing their custom work, it will actually open the doors to really rampant piracy, now that will be understandable as to why they chose to keep their work private. Another possibility is that they are somehow in bed with the flash cart business. Now this is an interesting point to discuss, money. Everybody wants money. Releasing a CFW that will put the flash carts out of business? That's counter intuitive. Now, all the above is simply just conjecture and pointing out all the possible reasons as to why there isn't a public CFW at this point.

I'll like people to read through and comment, logically and calmly in something that makes sense instead of simply "WTF, fuck off". Be logical like my comments on CFW, explore every possible option instead of fixating on one. Did I miss out any reasonable possibility?

 

[F417H]

I find it odd that Smealum has supposedly discovered the 6.x exploit yet still needed assistance unbricking a 3ds? surely given homebrew/tinkering would lead to lots of bricking/unbricking or even require the same hardware (Pi etc) to hack the 3ds in the first place? (Ignor this is stupid - I know nothing of coding).

Also, in regards to homebrew/CFW vs piracy - Surely at this stage given the 6.3 exploit isn't confirmed as actually existing a 4.x CFW would do no damage to the scene in terms or extended piracy. It'd just heavily hit the sales of all the carts.

 

[profi200]

Wtf have we to do with flashcards? Are you not going a bit to far? As you should know, we hate them ourself. You see things only from the pirate side like the most here. "It's good, if it is cheap and even better if it is for free!". Typical thinking of pirates.

A CFW opens the door completely for everyone with the right firmware and for free. I bet there are a lot of users only waiting for the free solution.

Speculate what you want but don't make facts out of shit.

 

[F417H]

Wtf have we to do with flashcards? Are you not going a bit to far? As you should know, we hate them ourself. You see things only from the pirate side like the most here. "It's good, if it is cheap and even better if it is for free!". Typical thinking of pirates.

A CFW opens the door completely for everyone with the right firmware and for free. I bet there are a lot of users only waiting for the free solution.

Speculate what you want but don't make facts out of shit.

'Free shit' - I, like many others pay a premium for piracy... Nothing is free. I get devs wanting to protect their work. But this 'holier than thou' crap has to stop. I have a stack of retail 3ds games... About £300 worth to be exact, I have also made a point of downloading the ROMS for every single one of the games I own. Yes I like piracy, I also support Nintendo and the game devs.

 

[gamesquest1]

I find it odd that Smealum has supposedly discovered the 6.x exploit yet still needed assistance unbricking a 3ds? surely given homebrew/tinkering would lead to lots of bricking/unbricking or even require the same hardware (Pi etc) to hack the 3ds in the first place? (Ignor this is stupid - I know nothing of coding).

Also, in regards to homebrew/CFW vs piracy - Surely at this stage given the 6.3 exploit isn't confirmed as actually existing a 4.x CFW would do no damage to the scene in terms or extended piracy. It'd just heavily hit the sales of all the carts.

smealums brick wasn't a gateway brick, and as he stated he bricked it months ago, so any possible theoretical exploit is not relevant, to put that one to bed i can confirm his 3ds was on 4.x not 6.x(thats not to say he hasnt looked at it since....just that that isn't what bricked his 3ds)

any bricks smea encounters should be nand corruption or stuff like that the gateway brick needed additional hardware as it locked the nand, smea simply messed his up somehow, this was before he had his emunand working so now he does have emunand in place its presumably safer environment to tinker with the nand contents.....as to what he is up to.....he usually shares most his developments on twitter (or at least his progress of what he wants to share)