Should Nintendo make a mature platform (Uncharted-type) for the next gen (9th)?

[Clydefrosch]

I really want to see nintendo go and keep all licenses to themselves. forever. no selling them to other companies or anything. they'll just be gone.

 

[Foxi4]

I don't think Nintendo-proper ever really made the kind of games that that demographic currently eats up.

You're making it sound like you're one of those old grandpas shaking their canes at the noisy rascals on their blasted skateboards. Nintendo never made a Call of Duty-like game, no - they used to make arcade games. The world moved on, arcade games fell out of favour, now Nintendo's making different games - that's progress. It's the company that has to adjust their products to the market, not the other way around - it's in their best interest to create products that are desired by their potential customers.

 

[grossaffe]

You're making it sound like you're one of those old grandpas shaking their canes at the noisy rascals on their blasted skateboards.

Back in my day, games were about gameplay, not shiny 3D graphics *shakes cane at the sky*

Nintendo never made a Call of Duty-like game, no - they used to make arcade games. The world moved on, arcade games fell out of favour, now Nintendo's making different games - that's progress. It's the company that has to adjust their products to the market, not the other way around - it's in their best interest to create products that are desired by their potential customers.

That is exactly what I meant by pandering. Yes, they could decide to go out and try to make the games that that demographic is buying up, but those aren't the games they have a passion for, and aren't the kind of games they've ever made. There are more than enough companies pandering to that demographic and I'm happy to have Nintendo continuing to make the games that they are passionate instead of copying the games that are saturating the market.

 

[duffmmann]

Forget about the Wii U, the exclusives it's getting have already been announced and that's that.

However, on the next gen if Nintendo could work on a platforming game like Sony's Uncharted but without necessarily copying it it'd be fantastic because Uncharted feels like an adult themed Super Mario game and that's a good thing because you've got puzzles, platform, some meleeing (it's just one to two button sequences) and shooting.

The graphics of the Uncharted games look awesome on PS3 (I'd dare to say it's visually better than what I've seen from Wii U games and it doesn't have long loading screens neither).

So yeah if Nintendo wants to approach the mature audience they should consider new potential franchises while also keeping the classic ones alive too (Mario, Zelda, Smash, Kart, Metroid, F-Zero, Pikmin)

By the way, pretty disappointed they never released Luigi's Mansion 2: Dark Moon on the Wii U so if I want to play I'll have to get it for my 3DS.

We got us someone with full knowledge of the future here.

 

[Foxi4]

That is exactly what I meant by pandering. Yes, they could decide to go out and try to make the games that that demographic is buying up, but those aren't the games they have a passion for, and aren't the kind of games they've ever made. There are more than enough companies pandering to that demographic and I'm happy to have Nintendo continuing to make the games that they are passionate instead of copying the games that are saturating the market.

Yes, well, Atari didn't "pander to the demographic" either. Do you know what they're up to now? They're making casino games in an 18-people team last time I checked and all that's left of their former glory is the name. They've gone from the market leader, practically the inventor of the industry, to a complete zero. A company has to adjust over time, change the portfolio to keep the products desirable. When you're not moving forwards, you're falling behind because everybody else does and eventually you fall into the realm of obscurity.

I like some Nintendo games as they are too and I'm not saying that they should change their existing IP's, but there's nothing wrong with inventing new ones. This way, you keep your old fans happy and you offer something new to potential customers - how's that a bad thing? They should definitely broaden their horizons, especially considering the fact that unlike in the 80'ies and 90'ies, the average gamer is no longer a "kid" - the average gamer is in a guy in his mid-twenties, and Nintendo has little to offer to that guy.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

*snappity snipper*
That is exactly what I meant by pandering. Yes, they could decide to go out and try to make the games that that demographic is buying up, but those aren't the games they have a passion for, and aren't the kind of games they've ever made. There are more than enough companies pandering to that demographic and I'm happy to have Nintendo continuing to make the games that they are passionate instead of copying the games that are saturating the market.

Unfortunately, the people who agree with you are becoming increasingly rare, evident by the fact that Nintendo consoles haven't done well (besides the Wii, which is just a fluke really) sales wise since the SNES. Nintendo needs to at least expand into new territory, otherwise they might not make it to the next gen.

 

[grossaffe]

Unfortunately, the people who agree with you are becoming increasingly rare, evident by the fact that Nintendo consoles haven't done well (besides the Wii, which is just a fluke really) sales wise since the SNES. Nintendo needs to at least expand into new territory, otherwise they might not make it to the next gen.

Nintendo consoles may not have done as well lately due to lack of third party support, but their own games continue to sell. The problem lies not with the games they are making.

 

[Foxi4]

Nintendo consoles may not have done as well lately due to lack of third party support, but their own games continue to sell. The problem lies not with the games they are making.

Perhaps, but their portfolio is the image of their consoles in more ways than one. Their hardware designs underperform, but it's their portfolio that creates the image of a "kiddy" company that's dragging them down. What lead to extraordinary sales of the Wii practically killed the N64 and the Gamecube and it's actively killing the Wii U. They need to broaden up their horizons a little bit, don't you think?

 

[grossaffe]

Perhaps, but their portfolio is the image of their consoles in more ways than one. Their hardware designs underperform, but it's their portfolio that creates the image of a "kiddy" company that's dragging them down. What lead to extraordinary sales of the Wii practically killed the N64 and the Gamecube and it's actively killing the Wii U. They need to broaden up their horizons a little bit, don't you think?

No, I don't think so at all. I think the only problem they need to fix is third party support. It's a troublesome problem as they seem to be caught in a positive feedback loop where people don't buy their console thinking they won't have third party support, and third parties won't support the console thinking people won't buy it (because it doesn't have third party support). It doesn't help that the support they have been getting has been half-assed at best and has only made things worse as when the half-assed or delayed games don't sell, it only reinforces the developers' opinions that it's the console's fault.

edit: I think the main problem the Wii U had was that they didn't have enough first party games to sell the console in the beginning, instead trying to give the third parties the opportunity to sell their games first (after all the complaints by third parties last gen that they couldn't compete with Nintendo's games). Next time, I figure the best option is to make sure they have their own games ready for the launch window instead of putting their trust in third parties who can't be bothered to build a user base.

 

[Foxi4]

No, I don't think so at all. I think the only problem they need to fix is third party support. It's a troublesome problem as they seem to be caught in a positive feedback loop where people don't buy their console thinking they won't have third party support, and third parties won't support the console thinking people won't buy it (because it doesn't have third party support). It doesn't help that the support they have been getting has been half-assed at best and has only made things worse as when the half-assed or delayed games don't sell, it only reinforces the developers' opinions that it's the console's fault.

Third party support would be nice, but it'll only come back under three conditions - Nintendo has to become more lax when it comes to licensing (let's face it - the days of Nintendo's Seal of Quality are long gone, they're not doing anyone a favour by allowing people to develop games for their system - these days it works the other way around), they have to start manufacturing hardware that sticks by the industry standards and is competitive to make multiplatform development easy peasy and they have to start promoting third party content so that releasing games on Nintendo platforms is once again profitable. A big reason why the NES and the SNES were so popular was that they were software selling machines - these systems had tons of great games because they printed money and Nintendo needs another one just like that.

 

[grossaffe]

Third party support would be nice, but it'll only come back under three conditions - Nintendo has to become more lax when it comes to licensing (let's face it - the days of Nintendo's Seal of Quality are long gone, they're not doing anyone a favour by allowing people to develop games for their system - these days it works the other way around), they have to start manufacturing hardware that sticks by the industry standards and is competitive to make multiplatform development easy peasy and they have to start promoting third party content so that releasing games on Nintendo platforms is once again profitable. A big reason why the NES and the SNES were so popular was that they were software selling machines - these systems had tons of great games because they printed money and Nintendo needs another one just like that.

I miss the days of the Seal Of Quality . Weed out those buggy shovelware cash-grabs flooding the market.

"Industry Standards" doesn't mean much to me; everything is programmed to the APIs these days rather than to the metal. Their consoles are better engineered (which does not necessarily mean more powerful) to find the right balance of components to maximize performance while minimizing cost. Look at the PS2/GCN/XBOX era. The Gamecube was $100 cheaper than both the PS2, and XBox while being easily more powerful than the former. Oh, and let's not forget the failure rate of their consoles; "industry standard" would have them dropping left and right .

 

[Foxi4]

I miss the days of the Seal Of Quality . Weed out those buggy shovelware cash-grabs flooding the market.

Yeah, the Seal of Quality didn't do much in that regard - it was never really functioning properly to begin with. Think back to all the crappy games on the NES and SNES - didn't weed out those, did they?

"Industry Standards" doesn't mean much to me; everything is programmed to the APIs these days rather than to the metal. Their consoles are better engineered (which does not necessarily mean more powerful) to find the right balance of components to maximize performance while minimizing cost. Look at the PS2/GCN/XBOX era. The Gamecube was $100 cheaper than both the PS2, and XBox while being easily more powerful than the former. Oh, and let's not forget the failure rate of their consoles; "industry standard" would have them dropping left and right .

The API's themselves as well as the overall feature set and calculation power are the industry standard these days. You want to support the latest DirectX (or equivalent) the hardware can handle, you want to generate a set amount of polygons not to stay behind the rest of the pack, you want to provide OS services the games require, so on and so forth. If you don't, you're stuck in a limbo, like the Wii U - somewhere between next gen and last gen, always requiring a separate build. The goal of hardware designers is to create hardware that allows developers to create software with the least effort possible - that's the whole point. The moment you introduce custom, non-standard solutions for things that should be obvious, you're creating an unnecessary learning curve that does nothing other than slowing the developers down. Want to provide custom functionality? Go nuts, just make sure that the core functionality is there.

As for the failure rate, I'd absolutely agree with you if only Nintendo's systems weren't subject to hardware catastrophies as well. Just to name one, the Wii used to suffer from BGA damage just like the Xbox 360 and the PS3 (Blue Slot of Death) despite being several times weaker, therefor, according to your logic, "safer". Following an industry standard doesn't mean that your hardware will immediately fail - that's a matter of design, the implementation of technology, not the technology itself.

 

[grossaffe]

Yeah, the Seal of Quality didn't do much in that regard - it was never really functioning properly to begin with. Think back to all the crappy games on the NES and SNES - didn't weed out those, did they?

I only remember the good games, so I'll pretend it mattered

The API's themselves as well as the overall feature set and calculation power are the industry standard these days. You want to support the latest DirectX (or equivalent) the hardware can handle, you want to generate a set amount of polygons not to stay behind the rest of the pack, you want to provide OS services the games require, so on and so forth. If you don't, you're stuck in a limbo, like the Wii U - somewhere between next gen and last gen, always requiring a separate build. The goal of hardware designers is to create hardware that allows developers to create software with the least effort possible - that's the whole point. The moment you introduce custom, non-standard solutions for things that should be obvious, you're creating an unnecessary learning curve that does nothing other than slowing the developers down. Want to provide custom functionality? Go nuts, just make sure that the core functionality is there.

The hardware power is not nearly as far behind as people like to believe it is. If it had a large install base and games were selling, you'd better believe developers would have no problems porting their games over. They just love to blame power instead of just coming out and saying they don't believe they would profit from making a port. I'd rather not spend an extra $100 on hardware just to support lazy/wasteful programming practices. I mean you want to talk about custom hardware that's awkward to program to? Look no farther than the PS3's Cell architecture. But developers still put in the effort to port their games to it. The Wii U is a billion times simpler than that; the CPU is practically the same architecture as the past two generations but now it's tri-core (and you'd think they'd had plenty of experience programming to a tri-core PPC from working with the 360).

As for the failure rate, I'd absolutely agree with you if only Nintendo's systems weren't subject to hardware catastrophies as well. Just to name one, the Wii used to suffer from BGA damage just like the Xbox 360 and the PS3 (Blue Slot of Death) despite being several times weaker, therefor, according to your logic, "safer". Following an industry standard doesn't mean that your hardware will immediately fail - that's a matter of design, the implementation of technology, not the technology itself.

My logic wasn't "weaker = safer". It's that a system to design within acceptable parameters is safer. If operation of the system causes the temperature to a degree that is damaging to the system, then that's poor design, be it that your clock rate is too high, or your fabrication is not made to sustain the temperatures incurred from operation. While a limited number of Wiis did apparently fail, they did so at a MUCH lesser rate. Hell, a google search of "Blue slot of death" only turns up 51 results, versus the nearly 9 million results for "Red Ring Of Death" and 2.5 milllion for "Yellow Light Of Death".[/quote][/quote]

 

[TecXero]

I'd like to see a larger variety of games coming out of Nintendo. Whenever they create a new IP, it's usually interesting. That said, "cinematic" games don't interest me. I tend to prefer a more arcade style games or gameplay centered games. The only problem I'd have with them attempting a game like Uncharted is if it took development from a game I might enjoy. Other than that, I'm all for variety.

 

[WiiCube_2013]

So when it comes to fixing Nintendo's rigid adherence to formula, the best way to innovate is to copy someone else's formula?

Hmmm.

Hold on yer horses Gars, Uncharted feels like it was based on the Tomb Raider games and then developed to be its own thing, which is a good thing because it has enough variety and personality to feel different from the Tomb Raider series. So if Nintendo took a shot a it then they'd take notes from not only Tomb Raider or Uncharted but also Enslaved.

 

[DinohScene]

Hold on yer horses Gars, Uncharted feels like it was based on the Tomb Raider games and then developed to be its own thing, which is a good thing because it has enough variety and personality to feel different from the Tomb Raider series. So if Nintendo took a shot a it then they'd take notes from not only Tomb Raider or Uncharted but also Enslaved.

Every game ultimately comes from Tennis for two.
Which is based on an even older game from the late 40's.
Which is based on board games, dating back thousands of years.

 

[grossaffe]

Every game ultimately comes from Tennis for two.
Which is based on an even older game from the late 40's.
Which is based on board games, dating back thousands of years.

What about OXO?

 

[Foxi4]

What about OXO?

The test of time proved that the OXO cube was and always will be better than the Gamecube.

 

[grossaffe]

The test of time proved that the OXO cube was and always will be better than a Gamecube.

You on drugs, son?

 

[Foxi4]

You on drugs, son?

Don't be so salty, accept that one cube is just more flavourful than the other.