Polyamory/Polygamy

[Hells Malice]

EDIT: But not to be a feminist here, but it does really just feel like a male superiority complex. Having one man served by many wives does feel like female subjugation to an extent.

Also I'd say that it doesn't really feel like a true relationship. A relationship is between two people who both love each other fully. To have one person say "Well I love someone else as well" makes it feel like one party is giving all their love in this relationship while the other is just kinda half assing it.

Oh good you wrote what I wanted to but was just too lazy to.
But I suppose we have to remember that marrying for love seems to be on the decline.

Marriage is the union between two people. It's a special bond you share, it's a commitment. I feel a person greatly tarnishes that 'commitment' when you tell the girl you love "gosh I love you with all my heart" and then turn around and say "gosh I love you with all my heart" to the girl behind you. I dunno, that's how I feel about it. Gender, race, and (to some degree) age really shouldn't hinder two people in love from getting married. However, polygamy is a whole other ballgame.

People need to remember this isn't just about sex...you're committing yourself to two or more partners to love, cherish and support. Jealousy is going to start playing into this at some point. I see nothing but bad things happening to a MAJORITY of polygamist marriages. Obviously not all will fail, but i'm quite certain a majority would.
If people want to be together with multiple partners, that's cool, but it's just not practical to legalize it officially for marriage.

 

[leic7]

What would a polygamous marriage look like, anyway? Multiple individuals locked in a single marriage? I don't think that would work for the majority of non-monogamous/open relationships. If A has partners B, C, D, and B is in relationships with A, E, F, and if they all decided to get married, there would be 5 separate one-to-one marriages:
- a marriage between A and B
- a marriage between A and C
- a marriage between A and D
- a marriage between B and E
- a marriage between B and F
...but not a single marriage involving A~F. In all likelihood, C, D, E and F probably don't even know each other!

 

[KingVamp]

Too many questions. I think if all sides are fine with it, it's fine, as that seems fair to me.

I didn't expect everyone to answer all of them, just to get them thinking.

Laws can be changed easily.

And not enough people to go around? Using that is like saying that each person HAS to get married to a different person. Again, there's no real valid reason why a person can't have multiple spouses. There's no negative benefits at all.

Do you really believe laws can change easily for unlimited amount of spouses?

Couldn't it possibly take away people from the ones not marrying?

But I suppose we have to remember that marrying for love seems to be on the decline.

in a world where it's lost it's meaning for most part.

On what bases do you think/say this? Sure people can marry just for the benefits, but I wasn't
aware on how many people do this. I would hate to be in a marriage with someone (or some people if I change my mind and/or preference) I have no feelings for when I could be with my true love/lovers.
Why marry someone you don't have feelings for just to get benefits, when you can get both?What are all these people fighting for marriage for? Just benefits? Iirc, civil union gives you that.

Marriage is the union between two people. It's a special bond you share, it's a commitment. I feel a person greatly tarnishes that 'commitment' when you tell the girl you love "gosh I love you with all my heart" and then turn around and say "gosh I love you with all my heart" to the girl behind you. I dunno, that's how I feel about it. Gender, race, and (to some degree) age really shouldn't hinder two people in love from getting married. However, polygamy is a whole other ballgame.

Marriage was supposedly between a man and a women by the same race even farther back if I may added,but that aside...
The person can be up front that they are polygamist/polyamorous.

So you are saying he or she can't love more then one person with all his or her heart?
Can you love someone that doesn't fulfill everything for you?
Couldn't your lover encourage you to look for another?

You are to talk and get consent with your spouse(s) before you act on anything anyway.

Also again.

I guess you feel it's a female superiority complex and male subjugation the other way around? What about if everyone marriage to each other?

What if they give each/the other consent to look for another before hand?

People need to remember this isn't just about sex...you're committing yourself to two or more partners to love, cherish and support. Jealousy is going to start playing into this at some point. I see nothing but bad things happening to a MAJORITY of polygamist marriages. Obviously not all will fail, but i'm quite certain a majority would.
If people want to be together with multiple partners, that's cool, but it's just not practical to legalize it officially for marriage.

Jealousy plays into everything at some point. You see a "MAJORITY" failing, on what bases?
So you feel they can show "love, cherish and support" and yet you say it isn't practical?

Monogamy doesn't seem to be working for 1/2 population or at least a large amount of people
for whatever reason. Can they do worse? Can this possibly work for them?

What would a polygamous marriage look like, anyway? Multiple individuals locked in a single marriage? I don't think that would work for the majority of non-monogamous/open relationships. If A has partners B, C, D, and B is in relationships with A, E, F, and if they all decided to get married, there would be 5 separate one-to-one marriages:
- a marriage between A and B
- a marriage between A and C
- a marriage between A and D
- a marriage between B and E
- a marriage between B and F
...but not a single marriage involving A~F. In all likelihood, C, D, E and F probably don't even know each other!

I don't see the problem with working out/with that involvement. They have to know each other to some degree since they would all need to give consent to each other. Otherwise, it's cheating.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

its a persons decision who they want to be with. if that makes some people lonely, oh well. you cant force someone to not be with a couple just because itll make someone else lonely.

 

[Sicklyboy]

its a persons decision who they want to be with. if that makes some people lonely, oh well. you cant force someone to not be with a couple just because itll make someone else lonely.

The problem with that statement is that a couple is a pair. Two.

I don't agree with polygamy at all. If you're going to devote yourself to someone, it ought to just be one person. I would not, as is the same of many others, not want a girlfriend going around and fucking five other guys whenever she feels like it. Likewise, most women don't want a guy who goes off and fucks five other girls whenever they feel like it.

One person, or a few people, are going to be getting the shit end of the stick in that relationship. Take that as you will.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

The problem with that statement is that a couple is a pair. Two.

I don't agree with polygamy at all. If you're going to devote yourself to someone, it ought to just be one person. I would not, as is the same of many others, not want a girlfriend going around and fucking five other guys whenever she feels like it. Likewise, most women don't want a guy who goes off and fucks five other girls whenever they feel like it.

One person, or a few people, are going to be getting the shit end of the stick in that relationship. Take that as you will.

Except there are people out there who dont view it as just fucking and actually dont mind if say the man sleeps with his other girlfriend.

 

[Sicklyboy]

Except there are people out there who dont view it as just fucking and actually dont mind if say the man sleeps with his other girlfriend.

Nor do I view it as just that, but that's a very extreme and real scenario and will hit close to home for a lot of people. What amount of people really are okay with their significant other sleeping around?

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Nor do I view it as just that, but that's a very extreme and real scenario and will hit close to home for a lot of people. What amount of people really are okay with their significant other sleeping around?

Aside from pornstars i know, a few of my friends. And if you're going to say thats what it mostly is, then I can say you and your girlfriend are just together for the sex along with everybody else, and I'd be just as right as you are.

 

[KingVamp]

its a persons decision who they want to be with. if that makes some people lonely, oh well. you cant force someone to not be with a couple just because itll make someone else lonely.

So you didn't mind people looking for a lover to be lonely for the rest of their life?

Harsh...

Of course I'm talking extreme here. I didn't think if polygamy was legal in the USA, it wouldn't
get to the point. Someone may not find a lover regardless, sadly.

The problem with that statement is that a couple is a pair. Two.

I don't agree with polygamy at all. If you're going to devote yourself to someone, it ought to just be one person. I would not, as is the same of many others, not want a girlfriend going around and fucking five other guys whenever she feels like it. Likewise, most women don't want a guy who goes off and fucks five other girls whenever they feel like it.

One person, or a few people, are going to be getting the shit end of the stick in that relationship. Take that as you will.

I didn't think you are quite getting it. That sounds more like a open marriage, which didn't agree with.
Open marriage seem to contradict the meaning/point of marriage. Don't like/agree with the idea of swinging
either.

With polygamy, you have to at least have consent from your partner before looking for another and that doesn't
necessary mean you do anything sexual with the new partner before his/her marriage,if they get to that point,anyway.

Polygamy is more than just sex. You are not randomly just out and about looking for sexual satisfaction.

 

[Sicklyboy]

I can already see this as an argument I'm going to lose over one statement I made because it'll be a "well if you don't like it don't do it" situation.

Edit - for what it's worth, I didn't know people here couldn't read between the lines. Or posts I already made. No shit relationships/marriages, monogamous/polygamous aren't all about sex. I'm in a relationship, and have been for a while. We're not even in the same state as one another to have sex on any sort of an even semi-frequent basis, but I'm in a relationship. I was, as I pointed out a post back, making a remark about one facet to relationships and marriages that with near certainty, almost every single one experiences, most quite frequently up to a certain point, and that in almost all societies and relationships within them, both people in the relationship do not want to share the other.

 

[CCNaru]

Gay Poligamy - Supported
Lesbian Poligamy - Not Supported
Poligamy (One Woman, Lots of Men) - Supported
Poligamy (One Man, Lots of Women) - Opposed

 

[FAST6191]

Some interesting ideas expressed thus far. I would love to construct a post using the phrase "romantic notions of marriage" but it would be forced so I shall leave it in "[five minutes after an event] you know what would have been funny?" territory. I do have great problems with marriage being considered as useful notion but around here it is rapidly losing any effective power it might have had (indeed my accountant would tell me don't do it- changed from a couple of years ago when "there are serious potential downsides" would have been the advice)- stealth changes are still changes.
I have no great problem with a free for all though I would agree many institutions are built on probabilities associated with simple pairing and it could get tricky there.

Interesting video


It covers an idea called effective polygamy which looking at dynamics seems to be something of the case anyway.

 

[osaka35]

It'll stay illegal, in the US anyway, because it'd be a headache for the government. Plus, it would make the politician look less "christian", so they're not going near it.

That being said, of course it's perfectly fine. There's zero immoral or wrong about it. If it became socially acceptable to do so, then you'd find people would find it odd to think of it as immoral. Marriage is a social thing, and the concept about how it "aught to be" changes with the generations.

 

[leic7]

@KingVamp
People in polygamous relationships don't have to know each other. For example, if I was in a polygamous relationship with my partner, both of us were free to date other people besides each other... I wouldn't necessarily know the people (s)he's dating, unless I specifically asked about them. So are you saying, when/if he or she decides to marry one of them, all the others and me and all of my lovers should automatically be included in their marriage? This doesn't make sense... What if I just wanted to marry my partner...without joining their existing marriage, but to create a separate marriage? 'Cause this would reflect the nature of our relationships better -- I'm committed to my partner, but not necessarily to my partner's spouse(s).

I can already see this as an argument I'm going to lose over one statement I made because it'll be a "well if you don't like it don't do it" situation.

Edit - for what it's worth, I didn't know people here couldn't read between the lines. Or posts I already made. No shit relationships/marriages, monogamous/polygamous aren't all about sex. I'm in a relationship, and have been for a while. We're not even in the same state as one another to have sex on any sort of an even semi-frequent basis, but I'm in a relationship. I was, as I pointed out a post back, making a remark about one facet to relationships and marriages that with near certainty, almost every single one experiences, most quite frequently up to a certain point, and that in almost all societies and relationships within them, both people in the relationship do not want to share the other.

You're extrapolating the experiences of people in polygamous relationships from your own narrow experiences. You're basically saying polygamous arrangements can't be happy because *you* can't be happy in them. But some people actually don't mind sharing their partners. Not everyone is a jealous, possessive lover with an insecurity complex and abandonment issues. Personally I don't have the energy required to invest in 2 relationships, but that's a limitation of physical resources and not an emotional limitation. I'm sure there are more energetic people out there who can pull this off. If my partner happens to be one of them who can do 2 relationships at the same time, I don't think I'd mind, as long as they're happy.

 

[Sicklyboy]

[...]You're basically saying polygamous arrangements can't be happy because *you* can't be happy in them.[...]

Which is exactly why I said:

I can already see this as an argument I'm going to lose over one statement I made because it'll be a "well if you don't like it don't do it" situation.[...]

And me bowing out now.

 

[Lanlan]

Polygamy is sick as fuck, and I don't believe polyamory is right either. Sure, you can love multiple people, but can someone be in love with two people an equal amount so as to not cause problems?

 

[KingVamp]

Gay Poligamy - Supported
Lesbian Poligamy - Not Supported
Poligamy (One Woman, Lots of Men) - Supported
Poligamy (One Man, Lots of Women) - Opposed

Base on what reasoning?

@KingVamp
People in polygamous relationships don't have to know each other. For example, if I was in a polygamous relationship with my partner, both of us were free to date other people besides each other... I wouldn't necessarily know the people (s)he's dating, unless I specifically asked about them. So are you saying, when/if he or she decides to marry one of them, all the others and me and all of my lovers should automatically be included in their marriage? This doesn't make sense... What if I just wanted to marry my partner...without joining their existing marriage, but to create a separate marriage? 'Cause this would reflect the nature of our relationships better -- I'm committed to my partner, but not necessarily to my partner's spouse(s).

I never read or seen ( through videos) of a relationship like that, with one not knowing the other spouse/partner.

If I somehow get into this type relationship, I would at least want to know who is the other person.

Polygamy is sick as fuck, and I don't believe polyamory is right either. Sure, you can love multiple people, but can someone be in love with two people an equal amount so as to not cause problems?

Some seem to worked it out base on stories I read, tho I didn't know any in person.


Do you (tempers) know someone in this relationship?

 

[Shinigami357]

There's a reason Lust and Greed are two of the seven [not quite] deadly sins. People can and will fuck this up. I mean, sure, there might be some who can live with a little bit of friction [no innuendo intended], but I'd say human nature would just be too overwhelming for any kind of polygamous setup.

I mean, if humans were apathetic, and cold and coupled only for procreation [like 99% or so of animals do] then sure, why not? That's how nature is. Sucks that humans are a little more complex, then [just a little... let's not get ahead of ourselves].

Love is really what fucks this up. On the one hand, you can't have any one person be constantly in love with two or more people at roughly the same levels. It's not possible, because humans play favorites, with every single freaking thing. If the amount of love is unbalanced, everything else would be unbalanced.

On the other hand, love really isn't that shining example of human virtue we all think it is. Remember I alluded to Lust and Greed? That's human nature, and humans can come to love their nature, however twisted it is. Like I said, love isn't this huge, golden equalizer everyone thinks it is. Love, when misdirected, is very, very destructive, and the more people who get caught up in it, the worse it's gonna get. [don't even get me started on people who love their Wrath]

So the bottom line here is this. People can and will fuck this up for the simplest reason: they're human. We fuck up simple things, do you expect complicated, interwoven relationships to work?

 

[Chary]

Eh. I dunno. I'd feel quite awkward if I were married and there was another spouse to deal with.

 

[Lacius]

Eh. I dunno. I'd feel quite awkward if I were married and there was another spouse to deal with.

I don't think whether or not one feels awkward doing something is reason enough to have that thing be illegal for everyone else.