[POLL] 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

[Hanafuda]

I think you and I would agree that Trump's victory in 2016 was not inevitable, and Trump's victory in 2020 is not inevitable. That was my point.

Also, just because Trump won in 2016 doesn't change the fact that he had a 12.5% chance of winning as of August 12, 2016. Improbable things happen all the time. Flipping a coin three times in a row and landing heads all three times is also a 12.5% chance.
Note: Trump's odds were up to 28.6% by election day.

It wasn't inevitable in 2016, and isn't now. Nothing is certain. But I wouldn't call it a "FACT" that Trump had a 12.5% chance as of August 12, 2016. I would say it is a "FACT" that FiveThirtyEight thought so.

 

[Lacius]

It wasn't inevitable in 2016, and isn't now. Nothing is certain. But I wouldn't call it a "FACT" that Trump had a 12.5% chance as of August 12, 2016. I would say it is a "FACT" that FiveThirtyEight thought so.

I agree, but that 12.5% number roughly comported with the evidence available at the time.

 

[Xzi]

From the moment Trump won in 2016, the democrats have been going more extreme by the day.

Give me a fucking break. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are both center-right. The Democratic party is controlled opposition. Only Republicans are allowed to actually go to extremes without consequences. We saw it when GWB and Dick Cheney lied their way into two separate wars, murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, and walked away without a single charge against them. If Biden is elected, we'll probably see it again when Trump walks away scot-free with millions of taxpayer dollars in his bank account, US soldiers dead from Russian bounties he did nothing about, and concentration camps full of kids who have been raped/sexually abused by ICE agents. Not to mention the intentionally/maliciously botched COVID response.

 

[Taleweaver]

The US has a population of over 300.000.000 people, so it comes down to 500 deaths/1.000.000 population. For example, Belgium hasdhas that.

Numbers never lie, but you have to put them in the correct context. Are those numbers high? Well yes, but they aren't the worst in the world.

Actually, they kind of are. Sure, for the moment our death rates are comparable per million inhabitants, but with your amount of cases still rising daily, it's not going to stay that way (it's like saying that you've lost about as much as your neighbor in a fire, but his house has burnt down while your house - that's twice as big - is still burning).

On top of that (and what @Lacius already mentioned): Belgium is a small but pretty densely populated area. The US certainly has some big metropoles, but when taking everything combined, the population density is ten times less (383 people/km² in Belgium vs 36 people/km² in the US). So...guess who had it relatively easy yet screwed it up?

But ey, we were underprepared (absolutely), and got hit pretty hard for it. But we flattened the curve. But while our current numbers are rising (fuck...7 deaths? It was 1 or 2 a few weeks ago! ) it's in no way comparable to the US.

So...next time you bring numbers, bring some that aren't so easily dismissed, okay? I'm pretty tired of being compared to the USA when our starting circumstances weren't the same to begin with.



Ahem...on topic: who the fuck are Jo Joregson and Howie Hawkins? And should I be worried that f***ing Kanye West gets more publicity than these guys?

Oh, right...I'd vote Bernie if it was possible. And Biden by lack of any serious competition on the ACTUAL political left(1) if I was a US citizen.

(1): sure, democrats are "less right" than republicans, but I call left and right based on their programs and ideas, not on where they stand relative to one another.

 

[orangy57]

I'm voting for Biden, but it's a damn shame that the only person Democrats can reasonably vote for is a man who isn't even on the left and shares very few values with his base. It's already the second time where people have had to choose between the lesser of two evils when voting in the election.

 

[Foupen]

I don't really care about politics nor am I a US citizen, but if I were American I'd be left-leaning.

I'm an atheist (why so many people still blindly believe in a man made concept that is God)
pro-abortion(honestly wouldn't want to give birth to a baby with a serious handicap like DS, also don't care what the Bible says)
anti-gun(it's obvious guns cause more harm than good. if no one but the police was allowed to have guns the crime rate in the US would be much lower)
pro-universal healthcare (equality of opportunity for people to enjoy the highest possible level of health is good. It works in many countries so why can't in the us. )
Pro-LGBT(it's not like same sex couples getting married negatively affects me so no reason to be against it, unless you're obsessed with what the Bible says)

Also, Republicans think video games make people violent.

 

[BeniBel]

Nearly no country handled the corona crisis well, especially not Belgium. But don't forget the second covid outbreak happened shortly after all this insane black life matter protests happened. Prior to that, the situation was pretty much under control. Belgium had under 100 new cases a day, for the US this was under 20.000 and going down fast.

As for the "republicans can get away with anything" claim, it's politics in general. Just take a look at what the Clintons have gotten away with. Biden was also accused of rape, and his son isn't too clean either. And Trump walking away with tax payers their money? Beside the fact that he donates his presidential wage to charity, he already was a billionaire, I don't think he actually needs to get involved in dirty schemes to get some tax money.

But the biggest issue with politics, and society in general, is that we have so much informations available, plenty of which isn't accurate, and we tend to cherry pick those suiting our needs and cause. We aren't open to facts anymore, it's why a lot of discussions tend to heat up and end up in an argument. I would recommend anyone here who is eligible to vote, to do some real research on both candidates. don't believe social media or news on their words. Look up the full video materials for context, and form your own opinion.

 

[Hanafuda]

When I consider which political party I want to give my vote, I conduct this simple thought experiment: if I were to put a Biden bumper sticker on one car, and a Trump bumper sticker on another car, and drive and park both cars around town equally, which car would get vandalized first???

you know the answer.

don’t even try to bring in some bullshit denial or qualification or excuse.

you know the answer.


Conduct that experiment 100 times, 1000 times I don’t care. I’ll bet you my house, both cars, every dollar I have in the bank that the car with the Trump bumper sticker gets keyed, or tires slashed, some other kind of real damage first at least 9 times out of 10.

Now, why would I want to be on the side of such vicious, cowardly, destructive little bastards as would do that?

 

[chrisrlink]

I want biden in in office and trump in an orange Jumpsuit rotting in prison and biden would be labeled a pussy if he pardons him

 

[Lacius]

Nearly no country handled the corona crisis well, especially not Belgium. But don't forget the second covid outbreak happened shortly after all this insane black life matter protests happened. Prior to that, the situation was pretty much under control. Belgium had under 100 new cases a day, for the US this was under 20.000 and going down fast.

As for the "republicans can get away with anything" claim, it's politics in general. Just take a look at what the Clintons have gotten away with. Biden was also accused of rape, and his son isn't too clean either. And Trump walking away with tax payers their money? Beside the fact that he donates his presidential wage to charity, he already was a billionaire, I don't think he actually needs to get involved in dirty schemes to get some tax money.

But the biggest issue with politics, and society in general, is that we have so much informations available, plenty of which isn't accurate, and we tend to cherry pick those suiting our needs and cause. We aren't open to facts anymore, it's why a lot of discussions tend to heat up and end up in an argument. I would recommend anyone here who is eligible to vote, to do some real research on both candidates. don't believe social media or news on their words. Look up the full video materials for context, and form your own opinion.

The objective facts are that COVID-19 cases started increasing dramatically as a direct consequence of Memorial Day physical distance easing without plans addressing testing, contact tracing, masks, etc.

The "all countries handled COVID-19 poorly" argument is, respectfully, utter bullshit. The US is about 4% of the world population, but we are over 25% of COVID-19 cases, and we are about 23% of all deaths. We have a President who never took the virus seriously and never did anything substantive in response to the virus, and the only reason COVID-19 wasn't worse than it was is because of state and local government responses.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

When I consider which political party I want to give my vote, I conduct this simple thought experiment: if I were to put a Biden bumper sticker on one car, and a Trump bumper sticker on another car, and drive and park both cars around town equally, which car would get vandalized first???

you know the answer.

don’t even try to bring in some bullshit denial or qualification or excuse.

you know the answer.


Conduct that experiment 100 times, 1000 times I don’t care. I’ll bet you my house, both cars, every dollar I have in the bank that the car with the Trump bumper sticker gets keyed, or tires slashed, some other kind of real damage first at least 9 times out of 10.

Now, why would I want to be on the side of such vicious, cowardly, destructive little bastards as would do that?

I could perform this experiment with a Nazi bumper sticker and a Holocaust survivor charity bumper sticker.

You know the answer.

Don’t even try to bring in some bullshit denial or qualification or excuse.

You know the answer, and it's just as meaningful as your example.

I'm also unconvinced that the Trump car would be vandalized first in every area of the country. We've seen Trumpers vandalize BLM material, etc.

 

[Hanafuda]

BLM material, etc.

BLM is a domestic terror operation.



Also your comparison of Nazis vs Holocaust survivors to the candidates in this election is absurd and offensive.

 

[Lacius]

BLM is a domestic terror operation.

That's not actually true. You probably don't care if I take you seriously or not, but if you want me to take you seriously, you should avoid the unsubstantiated hyperbole.

Also your comparison of Nazis vs Holocaust survivors to the candidates in this election is absurd and offensive.

My point wasn't to say Trump supporters are like Nazis (that's not my point today, anyway). My point was that your criteria for judging something is absurd, since the vandalism against Nazis vs. a Holocaust survivors charity would require you to support the Nazis, by your own criteria.

Edit: also, in your own words:
Don’t even try to bring in some bullshit denial or qualification or excuse.

 

[GhostLatte]

BLM is a domestic terror operation.



Also your comparison of Nazis vs Holocaust survivors to the candidates in this election is absurd and offensive.

And what’s the Ku Klux Klan? “Fine people?”

 

[The Catboy]

I am voting Vermin Supreme. Biden is literally promising the same shit that got Trump elected, even if he won (which is unlikely,) there's just going to be another Trump-like president to follow him.

 

[BeniBel]

I could perform this experiment with a Nazi bumper sticker and a Holocaust survivor charity bumper sticker.

You know the answer.

Don’t even try to bring in some bullshit denial or qualification or excuse.

You know the answer, and it's just as meaningful as your example.

I'm also unconvinced that the Trump car would be vandalized first in every area of the country. We've seen Trumpers vandalize BLM material, etc.

So Trump = Nazi? Trump voters = Nazi's? Trump took millions of people and gassed them? Honestly, the fact that you even make this comparison shows you're extremely biased, and aren't open to facts. It's not because someone is against illegal immigration, that he's a racist, fascist or anything like that.
Trump was voted into office in a fair and honest way, the way a democracy works. You don't have to like him, but comparing him to someone like Hitler, just because he doesn't support your view on how a society should work, is idiotic, small minded and plain fascism.

The US is a free country, so at the very least someone should be allowed to openly express their support to the president, without having to fear assault or harassment.

 

[Lacius]

So Trump = Nazi? Trump voters = Nazi's? Trump took millions of people and gassed them? Honestly, the fact that you even make this comparison shows you're extremely biased, and aren't open to facts. It's not because someone is against illegal immigration, that he's a racist, fascist or anything like that.
Trump was voted into office in a fair and honest way, the way a democracy works. You don't have to like him, but comparing him to someone like Hitler, just because he doesn't support your view on how a society should work, is idiotic, small minded and plain fascism.

The US is a free country, so at the very least someone should be allowed to openly express their support to the president, without having to fear assault or harassment.

See my post above addressing that I wasn't calling Trump or Trump supporters Nazis. I was highlighting the absurdity of using vandalism in response to a position as a reason to support that position.

 

[Hanafuda]

And what’s the Ku Klux Klan? “Fine people?”

The KKK was something 100-120 years ago, when they operated as the militant wing of the Democrat party.

It's nothing but a trailer park of microcephalics now. They had a "rally" last year in Ohio and 9 people showed up. When was the last time you saw the KKK conduct a nationwide arson and looting spree with 10's of thousands of participants?

 

[Lacius]

I am voting Vermin Supreme. Biden is literally promising the same shit that got Trump elected, even if he won (which is unlikely,) there's just going to be another Trump-like president to follow him.

I'm honestly surprised to read this. On LGBT issues alone, the candidates are night and day.

 

[Hanafuda]

That's not actually true..

yeah, ok

 

[GhostLatte]

The KKK was something 100-120 years ago, when they operated as the militant wing of the Democrat party.

It's nothing but a trailer park of microcephalics now. They had a "rally" last year in Ohio and 9 people showed up. When was the last time you saw the KKK conduct a nationwide arson and looting spree with 10's of thousands of participants?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally

Guess they’re just “fine people” like your president said.