Hacking Nus or wud? Which is better

[lafleche]

Now that games can also be extracted from wuds, which version of a game is preferred?

I mean. for nus versions some ticket modification has to be done faking an eshop version of that game.
The wud extract seems more clean. no ticket modification.

 

[xtheman]

Wuds are not dumpable atm. Wud is only good for disc only games. Tickets are dumpable with iosu hack (out but shouldn't be used by non devs) and the tickets are cleaned (The software to rip tickets didn't rip them right but nand does) which can be used with nus. I recommend nus.

 

[Pecrow]

If you are downloading WUDs most of the time they are at full disc size, 25gb, even if the game itself is just 1 gb. You would then have to convert it using that new tool to end up with the same downloaded files as if it were from NUS. I go with NUS, just download a tik which most are already modified, and drag and drop, download and stick into usb. Not that hard.

 

[nexusmtz]

I mean. for nus versions some ticket modification has to be done faking an eshop version of that game.
The wud extract seems more clean. no ticket modification.

You seem to have a misunderstanding of what's actually going on with the ticket.

When you use DiscU, you don't have to correct the ticket because DiscU already applies the correction.

And you're not faking anything, you're just fixing an error that was made with the WUD.

If you think about it, the idea that you're changing a ticket "type" from disc to eshop doesn't hold up if you can use either the data extracted from the disc or the data downloaded from NUS to install with the same ticket.

I guess one advantage of disc over NUS is that you're not downloading a hundred games from a server that someone could easily monitor and circumstantially associate with an NNID if they wanted to.

 

[gamesquest1]

just to try clear up the whole mix up about tickets, extracted tickets were not "modified" or "hacked", if anything they were simply "fixed", the orginal wud extraction tools were doing it wrong all along, the "fixed" tickets and tickets dumped by the newer tools are actually unmodified but dumped properly this time

 

[subcon959]

The scene never released a wud dumper so nus is better for most games.

 

[Deleted-355425]

Scene released tonnes of WUD rips, i have a feeling they will go back to that format instead of loadiine.

 

[lafleche]

I see a lot of conflicting info
- 'wuds are not dumpable' : Crediar released a discu utility which does just that. Dump a wud file (encrypted) with tickets.
- 'scene never released wuds' : well I beg to differ. They stopped doing that because of loadiine was the only way to play. I had a lot of wuds but deleted them after 'loadiine'-ing (aka decrypting) them (stupid me!!!)
- when using discu: imho. you have the original disc dump with the original disc ticket. That seems better then using some modded ticket for a nus version? I mean if Nintendo finds a way to detect modded tickets?

On the last point am I still confused. So when we use the new discu utility we get unmodded tickets which are good from the start?
So getting a ticket from -for example- the Mario kart disc (with discu), that ticket can also be used with the NUS version?


Just thinking out load: Does this all mean that if the dumping-tools were right from the start, loadiine wouldn't even have existed and we were installing games years ago :-) ?

 

[gamesquest1]

The scene never released a wud dumper so nus is better for most games.

seeing as both options are just downloading off the Internet they are the same in that respect, NUS have the advantage of being fast and easy to access but wud format are self contained and don't require finding tickets (as easy as that may be) they also have the advantage of always being available so any game on disk can be installed rather than only games that are available on both disk and eshop

each option has its pros and cons but are ultimately the same thing if available via both routes

 

[Sumea]

Nus for everything you can Nus, WUD for anything that is not on NUS and has a WUD (or now just a USB install archive made from a WUD) out there.
Yes, the cheeky bastards took under a day to make a nice collection of prepacked USB installable archives of selected few titles we know of...

 

[Goloki]

I see a lot of conflicting info
- 'wuds are not dumpable' : Crediar released a discu utility which does just that. Dump a wud file (encrypted) with tickets.

DiscU turns WUDs into individual files, like you would get from the NUS, but it doesn't create the dump.

 

[Cyan]

- 'wuds are not dumpable' : Crediar released a discu utility which does just that. Dump a wud file (encrypted) with tickets.
- 'scene never released wuds'

you are mixing "dumping" and "extracting".

You can't dump a game disc to WUD format yourself. you need hardware (probably the unreleased wiikeyu?)
you can decrypt and extract a WUD image to files and folders format with Crediar's DiscU. DiscU does not Dump, it extracts.


Scene groups released WUD format, and eventually stopped because users preferred using loadiine format? but they were released.
loadiine format is not a proper dump (they are marked as nuked releases); it's not clean, but an incomplete extracted format from the console, it contains both game+updates files mixed together. It can also be an extraction of a WUD, which this time will be complete, but still nuked as not being a proper clean 1:1 dump image of a game disc.


Like said by gamesquest, the wud is not incorrect, the wud content is good but the extractor (DiscU and VGMtool) did something wrong which made the extracted ticket bad. we didn't "change the disc to eshop", we just fixed the signature which was bad due to incorrect extraction method.
We are not installing eshop type ticket, the installer sees proper disc tickets.

DiscU has been updated to v4.1b to extract the WUD correctly. (it's not "fixing it while extracting", it's actually "extracting it correctly without breaking it anymore")

to your question : Nus or wud? Which is better?
there's no "better" format here. depends what you want.

if you want a full clean image of a disc, you want WUD. you can extract the WUD to a format used by loadiine. or keep it (compress it to wux to store them efficiently) for any future use.
If you want an encrypted file to use with WUP installer, you want NUS version, and a ticket extracted from WUD or a console.


edit:
I just learn that the new DiscU version can also extract a WUD into encrypted files to be used with WUP Installer.
So, you don't need NUS to get your game, you can just extract the WUD and get either loadiine format, or WUP format.

 

[subcon959]

seeing as both options are just downloading off the Internet they are the same in that respect, NUS have the advantage of being fast and easy to access but wud format are self contained and don't require finding tickets (as easy as that may be) they also have the advantage of always being available so any game on disk can be installed rather than only games that are available on both disk and eshop

each option has its pros and cons but are ultimately the same thing if available via both routes

It's tricky to find some early wud releases due to the "loadiine ready" craze a while back. I'm not even sure that all disc-only games were released as wud, some of them might have been pre-scrubbed only.

 

[lafleche]

okay....
@Cyan: as usual your explanation makes it all crystal clear :-)
I did mean extracting (and not dumping).

Now a final: if I have a USB-version of a game; can I make a loadiine-version out of it? Reason: I have a few loadiine versions of some games, but having them twice on my backup-harddisk makes no sense if I can delete the decrypted (loadiine) ones and -if for some reason- I want to use loadiine, decrypt them when necessary?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

It's tricky to find some early wud releases due to the "loadiine ready" craze a while back. I'm not even sure that all disc-only games were released as wud, some of them might have been pre-scrubbed only.

It seems almost impossible to find the latest ones in wud, not the early (as in oldest) ones.
The scene started in 2014 with releasing wud's. Only this year it seems more common to release the loadiine versions (and e-shop games).

 

[subcon959]

It seems almost impossible to find the latest ones in wud, not the early (as in oldest) ones.
The scene started in 2014 with releasing wud's. Only this year it seems more common to release the loadiine versions (and e-shop games).

Yeah, I mean most of those early releases have been converted and kept as loadiine ready instead of in original wud format.

EDIT: To answer your question, yes you can decrypt the usb release to loadiine format very easily with cdecrypt.

 

[Cyan]

if you have a "NUS encrypted" version of the game (it's not really a USB version, it can be installed on internal memory too), you can make it a loadiine version by extracting the files with Cdecrypt. That's actually what a lot of people are already doing for "finding" their games for loadiine. No need to go to illegal sharing websites when you get them directly from nintendo. you need the title key. That's why there's a website sharing these keys !

that's also faster to get NUS version of a game instead of 25GB wud in RAR to decompress in another 25GB WUD and decompress the files to loadiine format. 50+GB required! even if the game was just 400MB, while you could get 400MB only from NUS and decrypt it with Cdecrypt or JNUStool.


You can delete the decrypted loadiine format, you can decrypt them again if you need by using the encrypted .app files.
same if you keep the WUD file, that you can compress into wux format.


edit:
I just learn that the new DiscU version can also extract a WUD into encrypted files to be used with WUP Installer.
So, you don't need NUS to get your game, you can just extract the WUD and get either loadiine format, or WUP format.

So, you could keep the WUD and get both loadiine and WUP format when needed, except that WUD image are bigger. wux will be very welcome, as it's lossless compression.

 

[nexusmtz]

Does this all mean that if the dumping-tools were right from the start, loadiine wouldn't even have existed and we were installing games years ago?

Yes, but back then, Nintendo would have been more motivated to issue an update.

DiscU has been updated to v4.1b to extract the WUD correctly. (it's not "fixing it while extracting", it's actually "extracting it correctly without breaking it anymore")

When you use DiscU, you don't have to correct the ticket because DiscU already applies the correction.

Sorry that I didn't spell out that the correction was within itself to properly apply the IV. I thought that 'correcting' covered it, but I can see that's open to interpretation.

The point that we've made here, which unfortunately will be lost and have to be repeated, is that there just isn't any difference at all (SHA1) between the files obtained by either method on most titles, so it comes down to your choice in the way you obtain them. (Weirdos like Sports Club being the rare exceptions)

I'm thankful that people are finally getting on board with the idea that the Brazilian discovery wasn't "We figured out how to modify a ticket", but probably more "We noticed the tickets we got using IOSU were different by those two bytes, and those worked, so we'll just tell you to change those two bytes and make it sound amazing." There's really no reason to believe that they arbitrarily found those two bytes on their own. (Consider the coincident timing of their discovery and the availability of an easy IOSU/IOSUhax implementation)