Nintendo's Next System Should be Open Source

[shrekexists]

Seriously why didn't they just give us switches with unlocked boot loaders or sell special developer edition switches for hobbyists. They easily can make the best console of all time if they release the operating system as open source and don't care about game DRM while strongly focusing on physical copies that don't need internet and already have the updates included. It's pretty messed up how hard it is to get access to the official compilers when they should be included in the price of the console.

 

[CompSciOrBust]

Because piracy exists and Nintendo likes money

 

[spinal_cord]

Simply put, nobody would write a commercial game for a system with zero DRM and an open OS. An open OS would make DRM useless anyway, but who would BUY a game for that sort of system?

Ouya gave every single console owner a dev account and the ability to release games (or whatever software they wanted to write) on the system for free, or charge if they wanted. The system was a complete flop.

You can not target a commercial games system at hobby developers and make enough money to even pay for the production. Especially when there'd be zero commercial games on it.

 

[ShadowOne333]

You're talking about the very same piece of shit company that took away even the simplest of things like an internet browser or a media player because they're too afraid of people finding exploits through those means to gain control of the system they purchased and own.
Nintendo would be the LEAST company ever to do so, I'd expect Xbox doing it but never Nintendo nor Sony (the latter due to their proprietary shit they like to sell you from them directly).

 

[shrekexists]

Simply put, nobody would write a commercial game for a system with zero DRM and an open OS. An open OS would make DRM useless anyway, but who would BUY a game for that sort of system?

Ouya gave every single console owner a dev account and the ability to release games (or whatever software they wanted to write) on the system for free, or charge if they wanted. The system was a complete flop.

You can not target a commercial games system at hobby developers and make enough money to even pay for the production. Especially when there'd be zero commercial games on it.

Windows seems to be doing well for video games and has rampant piracy but people still buy games. Most DRM protected games also work on open source operating systems but it's not like DRM actually matters. The only reason there isn't piracy on Xbox like on Windows is because the signing is more strict and harder to turn off or add new keys. There are browser exploits for the Xbox Series X because it shares code with Chrome but you still need a signed executable. Neither of that has anything to do with DRM.

You're talking about the very same piece of shit company that took away even the simplest of things like an internet browser or a media player because they're too afraid of people finding exploits through those means to gain control of the system they purchased and own.
Nintendo would be the LEAST company ever to do so, I'd expect Xbox doing it but never Nintendo nor Sony (the latter due to their proprietary shit they like to sell you from them directly).

Making the system more secure isn't against the community with open source software. I rather have a fully updated system without browser flaws when that isn't the only way to launch homebrew. It wouldn't matter if nintendo supported that with a fully open source system as chrome and firefox could be ported and there would probably be community support for every media file codec.

Post automatically merged: Aug 25, 2023

Because piracy exists and Nintendo likes money

It isn't possible for Nintendo to stop piracy they can't even keep their first party games from being leaked to pirate sites. It's a large waste of money to even care about piracy at all because it doesn't cost any money but trying to prevent it does and none of that even works. I would be very surprised if there aren't private exploits and pirated Xbox Series X games Microsoft got scared when retroarch was running in retail mode. It's only really as secure as a properly configured shared Windows install. I'm pretty sure retroarch running on the Series X retail mode means it's actually less secure than the oled switch but nobody cares about uploading games for it. If you don't give a fuck about Microsoft spyware you can just sign a pirated game like it's for devmode then just download it in retail mode like that retroarch workaround. There's really no evidence piracy can be prevented at all so why take away from the community who just wants a good console.

 

[spinal_cord]

It's a large waste of money to even care about piracy at all because it doesn't cost any money but trying to prevent it does and none of that even works.

It is a well known fact among commercial game devs that you can't stop piracy, then best you can do is slow it down. Ask anyone who has been in the game dev business for a long time (there are plenty of interviews on the subject) and they will tell you, they only intend to slow down piract for the first month or so to get the inital hit in sales. Hopefully thos sales cover the cost and make a bit of money. The console maker have to do whatever they can to prevent piracy to show the devs that their system is safe enough for them to release games on and actually make some money, even if it is a complete lie.
If you were a AAA game dev studio and you went to two console makers,
one says "We combat piracy with new per console encryption and security bugs are fixed asap, your game will be safe on our system"
and the other says "We have no DRM, there is nothing preventing piracy on our system"

Which one would you expect to see the AAA games released for?


...It's the same for movies, they only need to slow piracy down a little, they make all their money in the first week at the cinema.

 

[OrGoN3]

Why wouldn't a DRM that requires always online work for an open source OS? Private keys are still private. It worked for Ouya, and look at how successful THAT was!

 

[Ondrashek06]

Because it's literally Nintendo. The Switch's firmware is intentionally barebones due to fear out of people installing homebrew, and they've managed to successfully prevent it (before you say anything about the RCM exploit, this was entirely nVIDIA's fault).

If you want a handheld game console which is as open as a PC is, just purchase a Steam Deck.

 

[Hassal]

We already have VALVE that does what NINTENDONT

 

[linuxares]

Will not happen since they lose control over the signing, controlling etc.
Why would they bother if they can't also get a % of the game sales if anyone can just release a game and download/inject it via like Amazon or some other storefront?

EDIT: Also here is some of the source code - https://www.nintendo.co.jp/support/oss/

 

[shrekexists]

It is a well known fact among commercial game devs that you can't stop piracy, then best you can do is slow it down. Ask anyone who has been in the game dev business for a long time (there are plenty of interviews on the subject) and they will tell you, they only intend to slow down piract for the first month or so to get the inital hit in sales. Hopefully thos sales cover the cost and make a bit of money. The console maker have to do whatever they can to prevent piracy to show the devs that their system is safe enough for them to release games on and actually make some money, even if it is a complete lie.
If you were a AAA game dev studio and you went to two console makers,
one says "We combat piracy with new per console encryption and security bugs are fixed asap, your game will be safe on our system"
and the other says "We have no DRM, there is nothing preventing piracy on our system"

Which one would you expect to see the AAA games released for?


...It's the same for movies, they only need to slow piracy down a little, they make all their money in the first week at the cinema.

Well if I was a AAA studio I would support open source games so I know millions of people would buy my game even if only because it's a AAA open source game. Modding is a lot better with open source engines and the engine actually receives quality of life fixes and ports by the community.

Why wouldn't a DRM that requires always online work for an open source OS? Private keys are still private. It worked for Ouya, and look at how successful THAT was!

Always online can't work unless the game is fully streamed. It's the same as denuvo it may be 256-bit AES but it doesn't matter because computers don't work like that.

Because it's literally Nintendo. The Switch's firmware is intentionally barebones due to fear out of people installing homebrew, and they've managed to successfully prevent it (before you say anything about the RCM exploit, this was entirely nVIDIA's fault).

If you want a handheld game console which is as open as a PC is, just purchase a Steam Deck.

If I use a steam deck I can't play Nintendo games without emulation. I'd like Nintendo to stop being hostile to the homebrew community.

Will not happen since they lose control over the signing, controlling etc.
Why would they bother if they can't also get a % of the game sales if anyone can just release a game and download/inject it via like Amazon or some other storefront?

EDIT: Also here is some of the source code - https://www.nintendo.co.jp/support/oss/

There's no reason Nintendo has to care about supporting other stores or side loading at all it's up to them if the operating system they make supports third party stores. It also wouldn't affect the signing or controlling at all it could be like now where you need a custom firmware for things they aren't interested in. It mainly is for giving the homebrew community a significant boost from launch day and actually viewing the community as customers paying for software specifically the operating system. Realistically I would be surprised if even 0.1% of people running Atmosphere don't buy multiple games since people run custom firmware when they care about the system. They could even provide git access with switch online if they wanted to make sure people pay for the operating system it's really up to them if they license the source to work on anything besides their hardware.

 

[linuxares]

There's no reason Nintendo has to care about supporting other stores or side loading at all it's up to them if the operating system they make supports third party stores.

... this is the whole point of the eshop. MONEY! They want MONEY! If they allow other stores, they loose out on MONEY!

You got to realize we are a massive minority, probably not even 1% on their blip that use homebrew on the total sale of Switches. Most plopp in their game cartridge or start their eshop game and play happily.

 

[shrekexists]

... this is the whole point of the eshop. MONEY! They want MONEY! If they allow other stores, they loose out on MONEY!

You got to realize we are a massive minority, probably not even 1% on their blip that use homebrew on the total sale of Switches. Most plopp in their game cartridge or start their eshop game and play happily.

That's still potentially a million or more people. So it would be 12 million dollars a year minimum in extra revenue if they provided access to the source though switch online and a $1/month extra charge. I have no idea what they make on games but if everyone running custom firmware buys multiple games a year that means they could potentially make billions of dollars over the console lifetime assuming more people would use cfw and buy nintendo over microsoft or sony because of official sources.

 

[DragonMals]

Seriously why didn't they just give us switches with unlocked boot loaders or sell special developer edition switches for hobbyists. They easily can make the best console of all time if they release the operating system as open source and don't care about game DRM while strongly focusing on physical copies that don't need internet and already have the updates included. It's pretty messed up how hard it is to get access to the official compilers when they should be included in the price of the console.

Cause of Money and Piracy. y'know how Nintendo is within the piracy. They're soooo normal with it >

 

[ertaboy356b]

Well if I was a AAA studio I would support open source games so I know millions of people would buy my game even if only because it's a AAA open source game. Modding is a lot better with open source engines and the engine actually receives quality of life fixes and ports by the community.

You better start releasing your games to Itch.io for free then and see if at least 10% will pay.

There's no reason Nintendo has to care about supporting other stores or side loading at all it's up to them if the operating system they make supports third party stores. It also wouldn't affect the signing or controlling at all it could be like now where you need a custom firmware for things they aren't interested in. It mainly is for giving the homebrew community a significant boost from launch day and actually viewing the community as customers paying for software specifically the operating system. Realistically I would be surprised if even 0.1% of people running Atmosphere don't buy multiple games since people run custom firmware when they care about the system. They could even provide git access with switch online if they wanted to make sure people pay for the operating system it's really up to them if they license the source to work on anything besides their hardware.

Believe it or not, homebrew community is supported by piracy. Anyone who tells you otherwise other than some devs are saints. For example, the vita homebrew community is great, but it's mostly supported by piracy.

 

[tech3475]

If you want an open portable, your options are something like getting a Steam Deck or some kind of cheap Android device.

Considering their fear of piracy and that emulation is a big part of the homebrew community, I doubt Nintendo would want to open up the platform anywhere close to what OP wants.

The closest I could see is something like Fuze4, which is already on the Switch.

 

[DragonMals]

I wish I got the Steam Deck. But I already have a Switch. I've hear dthat you can pull off soem crazy shit with Citra and stuff with that.
\

 

[shrekexists]

You better start releasing your games to Itch.io for free then and see if at least 10% will pay.


Believe it or not, homebrew community is supported by piracy. Anyone who tells you otherwise other than some devs are saints. For example, the vita homebrew community is great, but it's mostly supported by piracy.

I could just release the game on steam and not open source the data files. Try using a Doom 3 BFG engine without buying or pirating the game. Homebrew isn't related to piracy at all it just makes the console more like how Windows is with developers.

 

[ertaboy356b]

I could just release the game on steam and not open source the data files. Try using a Doom 3 BFG engine without buying or pirating the game. Homebrew isn't related to piracy at all it just makes the console more like how Windows is with developers.

Then maybe do it? Become the statistics and prove it. Invest millions of dollars and prove your point.

 

[shrekexists]

Then maybe do it? Become the statistics and prove it. Invest millions of dollars and prove your point.

Doom 3 BFG already proved it the source code was released almost within a month of it being on steam and it was just a remaster. I would probably put millions of dollars into openmw if I was making a AAA game and have it work with all the 3D elder scrolls and fallout games on vulkan and finish the vulkan port for the switch homebrew toolchain. Only then would I be able to make the game I want.