NGP Vs. 3DS

[Foxi4]

I don't see it that way. It's neither Gameplay > Graphics nor Graphics > Gameplay.

It's Gameplay + Graphics. The prettiest game with the shittiest gameplay will suck. The most brilliant game mechanic that is expressed using 5-year old children's drawings will also suck.

It's best to have as much resources as humanly possible to allow the best graphics, but also a well-developed, coherent dev teams and a pleasantly built-together system to play them. It's all about balance. The two don't exist separately - they interact with eachother. In a good game, there is balance between execution and presentation.

How's that?

Graphics or are only necessary for a great game up to the point where you can tell what's gogin on on the screen. After that, it's just icing on the cake. Of course a game with better graphics is better, but it's not a necessity for a great game with timeless gameplay.

There's a spot where you have to draw the line though. If I wanted to feel some retro nostalgia, I'd turn my Famiclone on. I don't want to get that feeling when I'm playing a contemporary console. You get what I'm saying, right?

 

[machomuu]

I don't see it that way. It's neither Gameplay > Graphics nor Graphics > Gameplay.

It's Gameplay + Graphics. The prettiest game with the shittiest gameplay will suck. The most brilliant game mechanic that is expressed using 5-year old children's drawings will also suck.

It's best to have as much resources as humanly possible to allow the best graphics, but also a well-developed, coherent dev teams and a pleasantly built-together system to play them. It's all about balance. The two don't exist separately - they interact with eachother. In a good game, there is balance between execution and presentation.

How's that?

Graphics or are only necessary for a great game up to the point where you can tell what's gogin on on the screen. After that, it's just icing on the cake. Of course a game with better graphics is better, but it's not a necessity for a great game with timeless gameplay.

There's a spot where you have to draw the line though. If I wanted to feel some retro nostalgia, I'd turn my Famiclone on. I don't want to get that feeling when I'm playing a contemporary console. You get what I'm saying, right?

I take it that means you didn't like Megaman 9+10 or Cave Story.

 

[Foxi4]

Megaman 9+10/Cave Story and the like are "a'la Virtual Console" titles which are MEANT to look and feel retro, they're an exception from the rule.

But while we're on that page, I couldn't shake the feeling that Megaman 9/10 were just Romhacks of the previous games. Somehow I find Megaman Legends 3 more interesting of a title and can't wait to play it.

If you're remaking an oldie, do it the Sonic Generations style - same gameplay mechanics with a contemporary graphic twist sounds good to me.

 

[mister_C]

I feel that there isn't always a clear distinction between a "gimmick" and an "innovation". Let's even say that the Wiimote and 3D screen on the 3DS are gimmicks. Is that entirely bad? What I like about Nintendo is that they tend to focus on developing new ways for gamers to interact with their games. I enjoy the thrill of interfacing with my games in novel ways. While beautiful graphics and physics on new systems are nice, I think that maintaining a traditional control scheme (standard psx-esque game pad) while simply upgrading graphics processing capabilities would progressively make the new console launch cycle rather dry.

Please correct my mistakes and I apologize for them in advance, but let's take a look at some Nintendo "gimmicks/innovations" over their history.

SNES: L/R shoulder buttons -- gimmick? just more unnecessary buttons? Now every system under the sun has them

Virtual Boy -- yes a disaster, but I respect Nintendo for taking a business gamble with 3D gaming back in the 90s -- again a novel way of interacting with a videogame (at least for a mass produced video game system)

N64: analog stick (ok yes I know the Vectrex had it first -- a pretty awesome and unique console by the way--gimmicky?), but the implementation of the analog stick on the N64 was carried down by almost every home console since then
N64: rumble pack - I think there was some lawsuit about this, but regardless the Star Fox 64 rumble pack pack-in was really cool (wasn't the Sony dual shock with rumble kind of a nod to Nintendo?) and systems after the 64 almost all employed a force-feedback feature

DS - touchscreen -- yes obviously Nintendo didn't invent the touchscreen, but again we have a novel way of interfacing with video games that really caught on

Wii -- obviously the motion controls, also the WiiFit

In the end, yes you may argue that some of these gimmicks/innovations led you to make an initial purchase and now you say the system collects dust. I have read innumerably many times on the internet about how gamers say they play their 360 and or Ps3 nonstop while their Wii collects dust.

But look. Nintendo still made their profit. Why would you buy a new game console if you didn't think it would be fun? At the time of the purchase you implicitly trusted that Nintendo would deliver on the fun factor for your gaming. Granted maybe their software selection isn't to your liking, which I understand, even back during the Sega Genesis vs. SNES era Nintendo was put down as being too "juvenile" or "kiddy".

I see a lot of corporate bashing on this board, and yeah many businesses don't have a spotless corporate morals records. Regardless, Nintendo is a company looking to make as much money as possible, and they really rake in their profits through gimmicks or innovation, however you want to put it.

In an era where gory FPSs reign supreme with the quote "hardcore gamers". I find it refreshing to shake my controller like an idiot and make a plumber fight turtles and flying fish.

Nintendo is bizarre, quirky, and yes gimmicky if you want to put it that way. But in the end Nintendo realizes that consumers desire and will shell out cash for these novel gaming experiences.


I'm sorry for the long post, but I read these forums often and I like to contemplate this whole Sony/Microsoft vs. Nintendo phenomenon.

 

[Shabutie78]

There's one reason, and one reason only that you're an idiot, that's because you're a graphics whore.

Look at what happened with the DS and PSP. PSP had PS2 type graphics, yet the DS just simply destroyed the shit out of it. Gameplay > Graphics. And if you don't believe that, then you can't call yourself a gamer.

first of all, how does being a graphics whore -even if i was one- make me an idiot? because i like nice, current-gen graphics, and not 10 year old outdated shitty ones, i think that makes me.. well.. the opposite of an idiot.
also, the graphics had nothing to do with why the DS "destroyed" the PSP. look at costs, the amount of little kids who want a DS (we all know who nintendo is aiming for with their products), and other factors. it's never gameplay > graphics. that may be your opinion, but just because you think so doesn't make it true for every gamer in the world. i think gameplay and graphics both play major parts in a release. i mentioned the 3DS' shit graphics because nintendo is still milking the fuck out of your wallets and they haven't even stepped up to current gen yet.
what makes you think you can define what a gamer is or isn't? just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion, they're not a "gamer?"
lolnazi.

 

[rockstar99]

both.

 

[Slyakin]

Yeah. Just disregard what I say previously.

I vote both.

 

[Nujui]

I'd probably get both. I own every hd console so far, might as well keep that going. I like the 3ds and I can't wait for some of the games that are coming out for it.

The NGP I will get out of curiosity.

 

[Vigilante]

Its like the ds and psp war but this time a generation higher.
If you liked the psp then NGP.
If you liked the ds then 3ds.

I go on with 3DS since I liked the ds better than the psp.

 

[KingVamp]

A reason for this could be that the DS had newer iliterations of the system that actually *changed* stuff, being the DSi/DSi XL. Even the DS Lite fixed issues of the Phattie, so MANY players own more then one DS, while there is no actual *point* in owning one PSP, as all PSP's play the exact same applications with no reason at all to upgrade. The only *different* PSP was the Go, which had marginal sales because it sucked ballz.

I'm pretty sure the 2000 had bigger ram. But the 3000 is only brighter(?) and added a mic.

 

[machomuu]

There's one reason, and one reason only that you're an idiot, that's because you're a graphics whore.

Look at what happened with the DS and PSP. PSP had PS2 type graphics, yet the DS just simply destroyed the shit out of it. Gameplay > Graphics. And if you don't believe that, then you can't call yourself a gamer.

first of all, how does being a graphics whore -even if i was one- make me an idiot? because i like nice, current-gen graphics, and not 10 year old outdated shitty ones, i think that makes me.. well.. the opposite of an idiot.
also, the graphics had nothing to do with why the DS "destroyed" the PSP. look at costs, the amount of little kids who want a DS (we all know who nintendo is aiming for with their products), and other factors. it's never gameplay > graphics. that may be your opinion, but just because you think so doesn't make it true for every gamer in the world. i think gameplay and graphics both play major parts in a release. i mentioned the 3DS' shit graphics because nintendo is still milking the fuck out of your wallets and they haven't even stepped up to current gen yet.
what makes you think you can define what a gamer is or isn't? just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion, they're not a "gamer?"
lolnazi.

...You didn't read what he said, did you? Tl;dr?

 

[KingVamp]

it's never gameplay > graphics. that may be your opinion, but just because you think so doesn't make it true for every gamer in the world. i think gameplay and graphics both play major parts in a release. i mentioned the 3DS' shit graphics because nintendo is still milking the fuck out of your wallets and they haven't even stepped up to current gen yet.
what makes you think you can define what a gamer is or isn't? just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion, they're not a "gamer?"
lolnazi.

Wait where is the level that graphics are good? I think the wii and 3DS are good it just it isn't super(?) graphics.

What do you mean it didn't stepped up to current get yet? If you mean the psp/ds gen idk what you are talking about.

 

[nutella]

I don't understand why it's bad to be a graphics whore but good to be a gameplay whore. I swear, some people get so elitist about how much they care about gameplay. It's all up to you though, if you honestly don't give care about graphics, more power to you. Just don't call me a graphics whore because I like my games to look nice.

To me, good games are a complete package. If the game has shitty gameplay, it's a shit game. Likewise, if a game has shitty graphics, it's a shit game. And I'm not saying games like, for example, Super Meat Boy are terrible. That couldn't be further from the truth. Super Meat Boy has awesome graphics. Good graphics don't necessarily mean realistic graphics.

 

[Nujui]

I don't understand why it's bad to be a graphics whore but good to be a gameplay whore. I swear, some people get so elitist about how much they care about gameplay. It's all up to you though, if you honestly don't give care about graphics, more power to you. Just don't call me a graphics whore because I like my games to look nice.

To me, good games are a complete package. If the game has shitty gameplay, it's a shit game. Likewise, if a game has shitty graphics, it's a shit game. And I'm not saying games like, for example, Super Meat Boy are terrible. That couldn't be further from the truth. Super Meat Boy has awesome graphics. Good graphics don't necessarily mean realistic graphics.

IMO, I just play games for the fun of things. I could care less about graphics and all that crap. If the game in question is good, then I'll play it.

 

[machomuu]

I don't understand why it's bad to be a graphics whore but good to be a gameplay whore. I swear, some people get so elitist about how much they care about gameplay. It's all up to you though, if you honestly don't give care about graphics, more power to you. Just don't call me a graphics whore because I like my games to look nice.

To me, good games are a complete package. If the game has shitty gameplay, it's a shit game. Likewise, if a game has shitty graphics, it's a shit game. And I'm not saying games like, for example, Super Meat Boy are terrible. That couldn't be further from the truth. Super Meat Boy has awesome graphics. Good graphics don't necessarily mean realistic graphics.

Well just because someone's anti-graphics whore doesn't mean they're a gameplay whore. For instance, graphics whore for the most part don't like retro games. I love retro games, but I don't give a crap about graphics, that doesn't make me a gameplay whore. In fact, who would play a game that has terrible gameplay but amazing graphics? Mainstream gamers, a majority filled with Cod/Halo/FPS playing gamers with no taste in video games, as they are guided by looks and the mainstream, thus they don't require taste in games.

 

[KingVamp]

I do think you hating on halo or any other FPS to much tho.
Well I only play most with mutiplayer...

I play variety of games.

 

[machomuu]

I do think you hating on halo or any other FPS to much tho.
Well I only play most with mutiplayer...

I play variety of games.

No, I love Halo and like various other FPS'.

 

[nutella]

I don't understand why it's bad to be a graphics whore but good to be a gameplay whore. I swear, some people get so elitist about how much they care about gameplay. It's all up to you though, if you honestly don't give care about graphics, more power to you. Just don't call me a graphics whore because I like my games to look nice.

To me, good games are a complete package. If the game has shitty gameplay, it's a shit game. Likewise, if a game has shitty graphics, it's a shit game. And I'm not saying games like, for example, Super Meat Boy are terrible. That couldn't be further from the truth. Super Meat Boy has awesome graphics. Good graphics don't necessarily mean realistic graphics.

Well just because someone's anti-graphics whore doesn't mean they're a gameplay whore. For instance, graphics whore for the most part don't like retro games. I love retro games, but I don't give a crap about graphics, that doesn't make me a gameplay whore. In fact, who would play a game that has terrible gameplay but amazing graphics? Mainstream gamers, a majority filled with Cod/Halo/FPS playing gamers with no taste in video games, as they are guided by looks and the mainstream, thus they don't require taste in games.

Don't assume "Mainstream gamers" who play CoD/Halo/FPS games care for nothing but graphics. If that were true, they wouldn't be playing CoD.

 

[KingVamp]

IMO, I just play games for the fun of things. I could care less about graphics and all that crap. If the game in question is good, then I'll play it.
So do you think Mario 64 or Galaxy would still be as good as it is if it look like the pixel Marios from the past.

Not saying it wouldn't, just asking.

QUOTE(KingVamp @ Apr 22 2011, 11:52 PM) I do think you hating on halo or any other FPS to much tho.
Well I only play most with mutiplayer...

I play variety of games.

No, I love Halo and like various other FPS'.

It may be different gameplay,but terrible gameplay? I'm not so sure.

 

[Nujui]

IMO, I just play games for the fun of things. I could care less about graphics and all that crap. If the game in question is good, then I'll play it.
So do you think Mario 64 or Galaxy would still be as good as it is if it look like the pixel Marios from the past.

Not saying it wouldn't, just asking.

QUOTE(KingVamp @ Apr 22 2011, 11:52 PM) I do think you hating on halo or any other FPS to much tho.
Well I only play most with mutiplayer...

I play variety of games.

No, I love Halo and like various other FPS'.

It may be different gameplay,but terrible gameplay? I'm not so sure.

What I mean is I don't care if the graphics are not that great, as long as I'm having fun, I'm game.