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New York Times standing with writer after her racist tweets come up

Hanafuda

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Racial. Not racist. Racism = power + prejudice. It is not possible to be racist to whites.

Your definition is bullshit. If you can set the definition, you can have anything your way I guess. If you define "Mass shooting" as "an incident in which at least three persons die as a result of an intentional, violent act with pineapples," there'll be very, very few mass shootings. See how that works?



I am white and thought the tweets were funny.

Oh really? Let's try a little thought experiment then. Let's put a few of those tweets on display here, and we'll just substitute black, or asian, or jewish, and mexican in place of the word "white", and let's see if they're still funny.

"Dumbass fucking _______ people marking up the internet with their opinions like dogs pissing on fire hydrants."

"oh man it's kind of sick how much joy I get out of being cruel to old _______ men"

"I dare you to get on Wikipedia and play 'Things ________ people can definitely take credit for,' it's really hard."

"#Cancel_______People"

"________ men are bullshit"

"________ people have stopped breeding. You'll all go extinct soon. This was my plan all along. :evil:"


Are these statements still funny when you use black, asian, jewish, or mexican instead of white? If your answer is yes, please let us know that.
 
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blahblah

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Your definition is bullshit. If you can set the definition, you can have anything your way I guess. If you define "Mass shooting" as "an incident in which at least three persons die as a result of an intentional, violent act with pineapples," there'll be very, very few mass shootings. See how that works?





Oh really? Let's try a little thought experiment then. Let's put a few of those tweets on display here, and we'll just substitute black, or asian, or jewish, and mexican in place of the word "white", and let's see if they're still funny.

"Dumbass fucking _______ people marking up the internet with their opinions like dogs pissing on fire hydrants."

"oh man it's kind of sick how much joy I get out of being cruel to old _______ men"

"I dare you to get on Wikipedia and play 'Things ________ people can definitely take credit for,' it's really hard."

"#Cancel_______People"

"________ men are bullshit"

"________ people have stopped breeding. You'll all go extinct soon. This was my plan all along. :evil:"


Are these statements still funny when you use black, asian, jewish, or mexican instead of white? If your answer is yes, please let us know that.

You are super dumb. When you replace the people with power with those who lack it, the statement changes entirely. Try to understand what racism is - it's not the act of saying things that are racial. Power + Prejudice. You need both to form the whole.
 
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Hanafuda

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You are, like, super dumb.

Superb rebuttal. Bravo.

Edit: Oh, I see you expounded on your myopic retort since I first replied. So I repeat: that definition and your perspective is bullshit. Any person of any race is capable of racist thought and action against people of other races. You've twisted your worldview to fit into a belief system that puts a linguistic shield up around the thoughts and actions of everyone but white people and can't see that this itself is racist. Try to take a straight look at that animus you're harboring, see who it is directed at, and think about what it makes you.
 
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FAST6191

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Racial. Not racist. Racism = power + prejudice. It is not possible to be racist to whites.

Try to understand what racism is - it's not the act of saying things that are racial. Power + Prejudice. You need both to form the whole.

Assuming I buy the need for a power model then is it potentially an aggravating factor in a given situation? Absolutely and would want to be addressed in the resolution of said situation, might even warrant a new word or phrase. Is it mandatory for a situation to be classified as such? I can't see it why, furthermore how does one quantify it?

A video I quite like on the matter and that mirrors my thoughts here
 

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The stipulative definition of power plus prejudice is total cowardice. Enabling one's self to act abhorrently and still claim to be innocent. There should be no doubt in anyone's minds that these tweets are racist by the traditional definition used by everyone else in the world.

It only demonstrates a complete lack of principle.
 

SG854

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It's not actually proof of that though, what you're posting is an average of scores across a range, and TotalInsanity4 is correct when he says that people of different races will exist at both the top and bottom end of the curve, regardless of the overall average. A top end person from race a is obviously going to be preferential to a middle to low end person from race b. Regardless of race b's overall average score being higher.
Those scores are more like a Bell Curve, which means half will be above the Average and Half will be below the Average. Which means you can find Blacks at a 130 IQ. Which is enough to go into STEM. But a lot less than Whites (100 IQ Average Whites), Asians (106 IQ) or Ashkenazi Jews (108-115 IQ), since Blacks have an Average IQ lower than these three groups (85 IQ Blacks). If you look at the bell curve, Blacks you would see only 16% of the population have an IQ above 100 (Average White IQ), but 50% of Whites have an IQ over 100.

And all 3 groups get hired at higher numbers then Blacks, especially in higher positions that requires greater intelligence. And Especially for Asians. Theres a huge complaint in the Asian community that they put discriminatory practices to hire other groups of people over Asians just because there's too many Asians in Engineering, and Asians are trying to fight for equality of opportunity rather then equality of outcome. Hiring should be a case by case basis, since even humans within their own ethnic groups can vary, but some ethnic groups will be hired over others because of biological differences, like Blacks in the NBA for example.
 
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Clydefrosch

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150 million people being racist on twitter against blacks: racism is over, didn't you know we had a black president?!
1 woman feeding you your own shit: REVERSE RACISM IS THE TRUE PROBLEM!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Those scores are more like a Bell Curve, which means half will be above the Average and Half will be below the Average. Which means you can find Blacks at a 130 IQ. Which is enough to go into STEM. But a lot less than Whites (100 IQ Average Whites), Asians (106 IQ) or Ashkenazi Jews (108-115 IQ), since Blacks have an Average IQ lower than these three groups (85 IQ Blacks). If you look at the bell curve, Blacks you would see only 21% of the population have an IQ above 100 (Average White IQ), but 50% of Whites have an IQ over 100.

And all 3 groups get hired at higher numbers then Blacks, especially in higher positions that requires greater intelligence. And Especially for Asians. Theres a huge complaint in the Asian community that they put discriminatory practices to hire other groups of people over Asians just because there's too many Asians in Engineering, and Asians are trying to fight for equality of opportunity rather then equality of outcome. Hiring should be a case by case basis, since even humans within their own ethnic groups can vary, but some ethnic groups will be hired over others because of biological differences, like Blacks in the NBA for example.

can i offer you some crackers with that racism?
 
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SG854

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150 million people being racist on twitter against blacks: racism is over, didn't you know we had a black president?!
1 woman feeding you your own shit: REVERSE RACISM IS THE TRUE PROBLEM!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



can i offer you some crackers with that racism?
This is something that is well known in the psychological community. And these are test scores based on IQ tests like the Ravens Progressive Matrices. These numbers they didn't make up. Scientists are simply reporting what Blacks score. And Blacks score average 85 IQ. You can't say a person got an A if they scored an F. This is on the person and not scientist themselves. Hispanics scores an average of 91 IQ and i'm Hispanic myself. I only go for what the research says.
 
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FGFlann

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Even if the rates of academic success are higher for one race over another, that still doesn't mean that a society that strives to not discriminate on arbitrary characteristics should use these averages as a guide for hiring practices rather than the actual measure of an individual's aptitude.

The averages simply don't matter in a case by case basis, and shouldn't affect the principle we're striving for; that those who excel should be rewarded for their excellence. If you don't measure up, try harder.

150 million people being racist on twitter against blacks: racism is over, didn't you know we had a black president?!
1 woman feeding you your own shit: REVERSE RACISM IS THE TRUE PROBLEM!
Reverse racism is a concept that requires a stipulative definition of racism like the one above. To everyone else it's just normal racism. Also I don't think we should be blanket accusing all the members of this forum who take issue with this as being "served their own shit". Unless you can prove every single one is.
 

Clydefrosch

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This is something that is well known in the psychological community. And these are test scores based on IQ tests like the Ravens Progressive Matrices. These numbers they didn't make up. Scientists are simply reporting what Blacks score. And Blacks score average 85 IQ. You can't say a person got an A if they scored an F. This is on the person and not scientist themselves. Hispanics scores an average of 91 IQ and i'm Hispanic myself. I only go for what the research says.

you're also only cherrypicking what research supports your line of thought.

you know whats also well known by the scientific community regarding iq tests?
first,they're scaled yearly in a way that the average is 100. meaning the 100 iq person from 10 years ago performed worse than this years 100 iq person.
they're also kinda stupid since they don't really measure intelligence in any relatable way and that has been a point of criticism for these tests for decades now.
question design is also kinda skewed towards white middle and upper, more educated class, at times referencing vocabulary and sitationsyou'd not really find a lot among lower classes (which does include large parts of the black community) this allows scores to dip in the 'X relates to Y as Z relates to....' type of questions.
classic us sitcoms tackled that entire thing in the 70's already. and you know what that means? rearch was already aware of this 40 years ago to the point where the average tv writer could get wind of it to turn it into a plotpoint. some of the questions expect a specific answer that simply don't apply to certain groups of people as much as to others and others just happens to be the white majority.

there's also that thing were certain groups in society are much more likely to actively being prepared for these tests (like, taking a dozen tests in advance to get familiar with the design and type of question before taking an 'official' one that's added to every collage application).

the same is true for these other important tests the us has... is it SAT? same problem by design.

here, more reasons why iq tests are nonsense for people with little time

there's also an episode and a podcast of adam ruins everything throwing out more problems with iq and similar tests. and they add all the sources so if you have a couple dozen hours, you can read even more about it in fancy science speak.
 
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Clydefrosch

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Reverse racism is a concept that requires a stipulative definition of racism like the one above. To everyone else it's just normal racism. Also I don't think we should be blanket accusing all the members of this forum who take issue with this as being "served their own shit". Unless you can prove every single one is.

yeah, reverse racism is a stupid argument made up by stupid racists in order to give themselves a new excuse to hate on other races. I'm not racist, I'm simply defending myself against these mean ni*****!
not really sure where you get i'm blanket accusing all members of this forum or that I need to police my hyperbole on a random online forum. I'm accusing anyone who thinks this is the same type and level of racism that people of color life with.
to be honest, i accuse anyone who doesn't see this is clearly more of a 'take your own medicine for once' kind of deal. insulting, certainly, rude, absolutely. racist? maybe on a technical level.

racism isn't just a certain vocabulary, racism is power to put people down. its a system that favors one kind of people over another and it works so much harder, is so much more effective, if wielded by a majority against a minority. even if the entire black community started to be actively insulting to whites based on skin color tomorrow, it'd still never be able to impact non pocs the way it does pocs. we literally have the choice to just say 'yeah so what' and get on with our life unaffected. they can't. for them, racism means that police might just choke them to death when they feel like it.
 
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dAVID_

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yeah, reverse racism is a stupid argument made up by stupid racists in order to give themselves a new excuse to hate on other races. I'm not racist, I'm simply defending myself against these mean ni*****!
not really sure where you get i'm blanket accusing all members of this forum or that I need to police my hyperbole on a random online forum. I'm accusing anyone who thinks this is the same type and level of racism that people of color life with.
to be honest, i accuse anyone who doesn't see this is clearly more of a 'take your own medicine for once' kind of deal. insulting, certainly, rude, absolutely. racist? maybe on a technical level.

racism isn't just a certain vocabulary, racism is power to put people down. its a system that favors one kind of people over another and it works so much harder, is so much more effective, if wielded by a majority against a minority. even if the entire black community started to be actively insulting to whites based on skin color tomorrow, it'd still never be able to impact non pocs the way it does pocs. we literally have the choice to just say 'yeah so what' and get on with our life unaffected. they can't. for them, racism means that police might just choke them to death when they feel like it.
It's not racism on a technical level, it's just plain racism. The problem with people is that they invent their own defintions for words, then try to apply it to everybody else as if it were a real definition. Some black people feel that it's justified for them to discriminate against whites because that is what some white people have done to them in the past. Do you think I, born white, am responsible for the racism blacks suffered in the past?
 
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FGFlann

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yeah, reverse racism is a stupid argument made up by stupid racists in order to give themselves a new excuse to hate on other races. I'm not racist, I'm simply defending myself against these mean ni*****!
not really sure where you get i'm blanket accusing all members of this forum or that I need to police my hyperbole on a random online forum. I'm accusing anyone who thinks this is the same type and level of racism that people of color life with.
to be honest, i accuse anyone who doesn't see this is clearly more of a 'take your own medicine for once' kind of deal. insulting, certainly, rude, absolutely. racist? maybe on a technical level.

racism isn't just a certain vocabulary, racism is power to put people down. its a system that favors one kind of people over another and it works so much harder, is so much more effective, if wielded by a majority against a minority. even if the entire black community started to be actively insulting to whites based on skin color tomorrow, it'd still never be able to impact non pocs the way it does pocs. we literally have the choice to just say 'yeah so what' and get on with our life unaffected. they can't. for them, racism means that police might just choke them to death when they feel like it.
"reverse racism is a stupid argument made up by stupid racists in order to give themselves a new excuse to hate on other races"
This, but unironically. :)

The way racism impacts a person varies from individual to individual, this need to collectivize is incredibly dubious. But how could anyone ever agree with a sentiment like "these people have it bad, therefore you should just take it"? Why should anyone have to simply accept being demeaned for a characteristic they cannot control? The attitude is selfish and self-defeating. Violence begets violence, hate begets hate, it's only creating the very things you're worried about. The only thing it accomplishes is alienating the people who already agree with you, let alone the actual racists.
 

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Sarah Jeong said:
"Oh man it's kind of sick how much joy I get out of being cruel to old white men."
So, erm...is she still single? I'll dye my hair grey if that improves my chances. :blush:


But on a serious answer (note: have at best skimmed over 5 pages of replies): even more so than the guardians of the galaxy director, it's clear that these tweets were part of a narrative that the (most likely anonymous) culprit didn't care for when he googled for Sarah Jeong tweets containing the word "white". Or worse: the culprit DID know about it and purposely ignored it when fabricating this stuff.

...and I just now read that I'm right on that. From the new york times:

"For a period of time she responded to that harassment by imitating the rhetoric of her harassers."

In other words: these tweets are a reaction to the stuff that white people do. Christ...turn on fox news or read tweets from that Trump guy, and within no time I want the freaking white race extinct. Assuming the white-skinned peopled wearing business suits and vampire on the rest of humanity have to be thrown in with my own skin color.

"b...but it's wacism!!!!!"

No, it's not racism, moron. Racism is the act of purposely and actively putting (or attempting to put) members of an ethnical group in a disadvantaged position, based on criteria that can't objectively be clarified. Words can be racist if their intention is to rally against the group. Without said intention, they aren't. Without PROVIDED intention, this shouldn't even be a discussion.

You wanna talk racism against white people? Look at South Africa. Now that Mandela's gone, the black people have systematically taken charge of most industries. The white people that are there are "being treated equally" in the same sense that black people (and I guess hispanics too?) are "being treated equally" in the USA and Europe: they have the same right as everyone to study, to apply for jobs and such. But alas...not to discriminate, but we've chosen a candidate that just totally accidentally happens to be our own skin color. That shit is racism. Digging up tweets from years ago from one person who has no anti-white agenda to begin with is just you wanting to cosplay as a victim.



But hey...I guess you only think books like this one is okay if a white person writes it:
51YinV-lDKL._SX323_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

(on a totally unrelated note: I recently found this book in a 1$ book bin...not only is it hilarious, but it maintains its relevance even SEVENTEEN FREAKING YEARS after release)
 

FGFlann

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The imitating her harassers line is an obvious lie. It's an attempt at damage mitigation by a company placed on the back foot. But even if it wasn't, it doesn't matter, the only factor required is her own words.

The most fascinating part of this discussion is the effort to further qualify racism, away from its actual definition for some reason. It's okay if she said something racist, you know? It's not some indelible cardinal sin. She doesn't have to be out there lopping off the heads of old white men in a quest for ethnic cleansing to qualify. She can still live and learn from her mistakes like the rest of us who fuck up.
 
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FAST6191

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"b...but it's wacism!!!!!"

No, it's not racism, moron. Racism is the act of purposely and actively putting (or attempting to put) members of an ethnical group in a disadvantaged position, based on criteria that can't objectively be clarified. Words can be racist if their intention is to rally against the group. Without said intention, they aren't. Without PROVIDED intention, this shouldn't even be a discussion.

That is not a definition of racism that I was either ever taught, ascribe to or that I dare say most people would follow. What you describe (assuming there is no other factor that might justify such things -- a group being 3 people and all) is certainly a thing to concern anybody that is aiming to be a rational and decent human being but does not fully define the term, not by a long shot. Similarly intention does want to be considered but one can be unintentionally troubling and may wish to in turn be made aware of that.

Similarly on the imitating thing then the utter nonsense that "cultural appropriation" is a concept I have never seen from any kind of white supremacist and they have no equivalent (occasionally you get parallel concepts) -- never seen a KKK member say a black man can't put on a rendition of Swan Lake and have other black people enjoy it, they may prefer it to happen "in their own country" whatever that might be or for them not to be around in the first place but the notion of them doing it at all is not something I see them bothered by. For it all then to be written off as a game of word replacement and a variation thereof that does rather throw a proverbial spanner in the works, one I was already seriously straining to keep going on with; the language and phrasing so mirrors that of the people that say such things "for real" (and it is a rather unique list) rather than acting as said game of word replacement... maybe the anonymous provocateur played word replacement first or something.

In any case she appears to have said such things were not a reflection of her current mindset and her employer in this case can see past it so I am happy enough to leave it at that. Should we get rid of all the people that made a mistake, much less in their youth, then there will be none left.
 

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In other words: these tweets are a reaction to the stuff that white people do. ..... Digging up tweets from years ago from one person who has no anti-white agenda to begin with is just you wanting to cosplay as a victim.


oh, so she doesn't really think that way, it was all just posing as a lesson to those who'd been mean to her. It's not like she was posting snarky, insulting tweets about 'white people' for any serious length of time -- only three or four years' worth. (if you've only seen one screenshot of Jeong's 'white people' tweets, you've only scratched the surface. See HERE) Like I said earlier in the thread, all NYT or Ms. Jeong need to do is provide examples of this unprovoked harassment she was allegedly receiving and I'll believe it. But I'm not gonna believe just cuz they say so.

 
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SG854

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you're also only cherrypicking what research supports your line of thought.

you know whats also well known by the scientific community regarding iq tests?
first,they're scaled yearly in a way that the average is 100. meaning the 100 iq person from 10 years ago performed worse than this years 100 iq person.
they're also kinda stupid since they don't really measure intelligence in any relatable way and that has been a point of criticism for these tests for decades now.
question design is also kinda skewed towards white middle and upper, more educated class, at times referencing vocabulary and sitationsyou'd not really find a lot among lower classes (which does include large parts of the black community) this allows scores to dip in the 'X relates to Y as Z relates to....' type of questions.
classic us sitcoms tackled that entire thing in the 70's already. and you know what that means? rearch was already aware of this 40 years ago to the point where the average tv writer could get wind of it to turn it into a plotpoint. some of the questions expect a specific answer that simply don't apply to certain groups of people as much as to others and others just happens to be the white majority.

there's also that thing were certain groups in society are much more likely to actively being prepared for these tests (like, taking a dozen tests in advance to get familiar with the design and type of question before taking an 'official' one that's added to every collage application).

the same is true for these other important tests the us has... is it SAT? same problem by design.

here, more reasons why iq tests are nonsense for people with little time

there's also an episode and a podcast of adam ruins everything throwing out more problems with iq and similar tests. and they add all the sources so if you have a couple dozen hours, you can read even more about it in fancy science speak.

I've actually seen the Video made by Adam Ruins everything and he has so much wrong in that video.

The Scientific literature on IQ is well supported and Adam did little research on this topic. I've gotten my information from Jordan Peterson from a class lecture he has free online and I trust an Expert in the field more then Adam.

I've also read the literature myself.

Here's a link to one. https://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf
And yes I read all 50 pages. It also includes 9 pages of references to scientific research. Hardly little support for this.
Also consider that the gap between Black and White IQ has existed for decades since they first started IQ testing. And even though Blacks problems improved over time, the same 15 point gap still exists. Any interventions did little to improve it. There's hundred and hundreds of published papers on this over the span of 100 yrs.

For your first point what your talking about is the Flynn Effect. That IQ improves as we have better access to information than our grandparents. The problem with the Flynn effect is that its about Crystalized intelligence, not Fluid intelligence. Crystalized intelligence is knowledge you've acquired. Fluid intelligence is free from any learned knowledge, and is your brains raw processing power to problem solve, think abstractly, and identify patterns, which is free from previous acquired knowledge. The G factor (General Intelligence) is what is being measured by IQ tests, and this is the biggest gap between White and Blacks. More than culturally learned information. And you can't improve your G factor. They've tried many times and failed.

For your next point, you say that IQ tests, tests knowledge that only Rich Upper class people would know, like certain words, and the lower class will be at disadvantaged. This is not true. IQ tests like the Ravens Progressive Matrices is highly G loaded. Actually Culturally loaded tests Blacks do better on, which is what Adam was criticizing, which contradicts his point. And the Progressive Matrices is non verbal, and it gets rid of any cultural influence.

And for your other point, IQ tests are not useless. They know this because of their predictive validity to life success, income, and health. If IQ tests just tells you how well you do on an IQ test like Adam says, then it wouldn't have any predictive validity. But it does. IQ tests validity are also found world wide. They also test reaction times. The Higher IQ you have the fast your brain processes information and the faster you hit the button when signaled to. Asians had the fastest times, next whites, then blacks, which follows what IQ would predict. These are very easy to do IQ tests that a child can do, just hit a button when the light flashes.

IQ research also follows human evolution. East Asian's have the biggest brain sizes, next whites, then blacks. They measured it externally, with MRI's, and filling skulls with substance to measure its size. Humans evolved to give birth to less developed babies that takes longer to reach maturity. The reason is because its easier to push out a baby from a birth canal when they are less developed, then a more developed baby with a bigger brain. The bigger brains is the reason for the this. Even though Blacks on average give birth a week before whites, black babies are born more developed, reach maturity faster, learn to walk faster, and reach sexual maturity faster than whites. And whites faster than Asians. This follows what human evolution and IQ, and bigger brains would predict.

Here's is another link to IQ research that explains more on this. https://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2004socialconsequences.pdf
There's no denying this gap exists in the Scientific community. There's also a lot I haven't talked about like adoption studies and regression to the mean, but this comment is already going long enough.
 
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