Hardware N3DS NAND backup possible, I hope.

[zeruel85]

Have you tried the point I mentioned earlier? If you have I'll continue searching for the right CLK point if that's the case.

EDIT: Apparently my FPGa board I have can be used as a Sump logic analyzer. Will poke around on the top side of the board and see what there is.

Yeah, I tried all of them, but without success. I think I have made the connections in the right way, I have a lot of experience in soldering and hardware mods in various kind of consoles, but who knows... An error can occur to everyone.

 

[shinyquagsire23]

Yeah, I tried all of them, but without success. I think I have made the connections in the right way, I have a lot of experience in soldering and hardware mods in various kind of consoles, but who knows... An error can occur to everyone.

I'm not entirely familiar with MMC stuff or how it works, but IIRC the host computer is the one generating the clock. So the important thing is not only finding a CLK pin but also making sure it's the right one. I have my doubts that we'll find anything on the reverse side of the board so I'll start searching on the top side for something.

 

[zeruel85]

The best way would be desoldering the NAND BGA and see the traces. I don't see any traces that come out from the NAND, except that for the 4 DAT lines and the CMD one. Maybe there's a 'via hole' underneath the BGA that directly leads to a testpoint, or something else, in the rear of the mo/bo.

EDIT: I also searched for a datasheet, both for the NAND and the IC (thin quad flat pack) in the rear of it, but I didn't find anything.

 

[shinyquagsire23]

So my bottom screen backlight randomly decided to turn on full brightness and it isn't going down no matter what. Not sure what the issue is, but at this point since my N3DS is actually going to be played on I'm officially nope-ing out of NAND modding. Don't have the money for another N3DS so unless another one was donated or something for experimentation I'm not going to be doing much anything else. The backlight also is also wavy so that's going to bother me for quite a while.

EDIT: OK after desoldering all my wires the backlight is no longer wavy. So if anyone does continue with a smaller N3DS mod you might want to get some smaller wires that won't press against the backlight. Mine were fairly thin but I might have routed them badly. The backlight issue isn't the worst, but it'll kill my battery (and my eyes >.<). No other issues so far though. Might try and get a replacement if I can.

 

[Avalynn]

So my bottom screen backlight randomly decided to turn on full brightness and it isn't going down no matter what. Not sure what the issue is, but at this point since my N3DS is actually going to be played on I'm officially nope-ing out of NAND modding. Don't have the money for another N3DS so unless another one was donated or something for experimentation I'm not going to be doing much anything else. The backlight also is also wavy so that's going to bother me for quite a while.

EDIT: OK after desoldering all my wires the backlight is no longer wavy. So if anyone does continue with a smaller N3DS mod you might want to get some smaller wires that won't press against the backlight. Mine were fairly thin but I might have routed them badly. The backlight issue isn't the worst, but it'll kill my battery (and my eyes >.<). No other issues so far though. Might try and get a replacement if I can.

Ah well thank you for trying so much And yes the sump logic analyzer is nice too using the old Spartan 3, if I recall. It works pretty well except I think the memory on it was rather limited but the clock speeds were up to 200MHz. I agree taking off the IC would be the best way but short of that, a oscilloscope or logic analyzer would easily do the trick without having to remove it. Or another way is using an xray machine used to check the solder quality of BGAs and the like. Buuut does anyone have one of those lol.

 

[shinyquagsire23]

Ah well thank you for trying so much And yes the sump logic analyzer is nice too using the old Spartan 3, if I recall. It works pretty well except I think the memory on it was rather limited but the clock speeds were up to 200MHz. I agree taking off the IC would be the best way but short of that, a oscilloscope or logic analyzer would easily do the trick without having to remove it. Or another way is using an xray machine used to check the solder quality of BGAs and the like. Buuut does anyone have one of those lol.

Yeah, I'd say at this point it would be best to pull off the entire chip and find all the routes. Maybe once more broken N3DS's start showing up I can grab one and just pull the chip off for science or whatever. I'd keep going if it weren't for the backlight though, I was going good with no casualties or anything up until that (well the microphone went out because I was stupid and thought the connector was one of those clip ones but I somehow fixed that).

...just checked my N3DS after leaving it plugged in and alone for a while, backlight fixed itself! I think somehow I managed to screw something in a bit too tight and it derped up something in the panel (nearly had a heart attack when I saw the bottom backlight on just plain black the first time around), so definitely be careful with how you route your wires on the smaller one, and get super thin wires (magnet wire doesn't sound like a horrible option as long as it can handle the voltages).

 

[hundshamer]

Magnet wire will do. I use them on 3DS's now.

 

[Daku93]

I just created this:


Red lines are traces on the other side, black dots are holes in the traces for connections through pcb layers, blue is the NAND chip on the other side. That might help.

EDIT: If I see it correctly, those traces are however all connected to the NFC Chip so I don't think they have anything to do with the NAND.

EDIT2: After looking at the pinouts for FBGA eMMC, I think the right one of the pads Apache Thunder marked in #86 is the CLK one. If not it might also be this (I hope not, because that is really really tiny):

 

[metaljay]

How are you searching for the CLK?
on the 3rd page Avalynn successfully downgraded and upgraded?

 

[Avalynn]

How are you searching for the CLK?
on the 3rd page Avalynn successfully downgraded and upgraded?

Yes but that was for the N3DS XL (US version) this is the N3DS (non XL) the CLK line for that is still missing.

 

[metaljay]

Perfect, I'm really tempted to do this tonight now haha

 

[kelroy]

Guys you got some link of the New 3ds xl dissasembly on photo?.

 

[Avalynn]

Guys you got some link of the New 3ds xl dissasembly on photo?.

I could do one if you'd like some time today.

 

[Daku93]

Guys you got some link of the New 3ds xl dissasembly on photo?.

iFixit has a teardown of the XL.

 

[Fabbbrrr]

Great info here!

Should I try the nand backup if I have normal to poor soldering skills and almost none electronic knowledge?

I have a n3ds xl AUS 9.0, and the idea is get the nand backup, then buy a sky3ds. Later update to 9.5. However, if some day in the future gateway releases their card, go back to 9.0....

I'm really afraid to mess up my console by doing this. I guess you can say goodbye to warranty if try this method...

Thanks in advance for your opinions and your impressive work!

 

[Avalynn]

Great info here!

Should I try the nand backup if I have normal to poor soldering skills and almost none electronic knowledge?

I have a n3ds xl AUS 9.0, and the idea is get the nand backup, then buy a sky3ds. Later update to 9.5. However, if some day in the future gateway releases their card, go back to 9.0....

I'm really afraid to mess up my console by doing this. I guess you can say goodbye to warranty if try this method...

Thanks in advance for your opinions and your impressive work!

I don't want to sound mean but if you skill aren't great you may want to practice a lot first. I suggest finding some old scrap board and give that a go, see about attaching wires to different points on the board or even IC's. Also taking apart the N3DS is something in itself, always go slow and take pictures before each step so you can reference them when putting it back together. A saying in carpentry I've always liked is "measure twice, cut once".

The key when taking it apart is patience and when soldering, flux can help, you don't want to apply any more heat then you have to to make the connections. Just remember to clean up any flux when you are done even if it's from the solder cores itself.

You don't need much knowledge on electronics to do this but it may help with troubleshooting. Also try to make the wires as short as possible and use thinner gauge just don't go below say 30 AWG that might be too small then.

It's a challenge and if you are up for it, it allows your to move between firmware versions and if a software up/downgrade fails you always have this as a fail safe. So think it over, get some practice and go slow. I can tell you that rushing can lead to a lot of problems, and have fun try not to be overly nervous. After all you are getting to play and see the guts of your device.

 

[zeruel85]

Avalynn: have you tried to find out continuity with some points in the rear of the motherboard (I mean for DAT0, CMD and CLK)? If we can find alternative points, then it's just simpler to solder them without deassembling all the motherboard and the flat connectors.

 

[Avalynn]

Avalynn: have you tried to find out continuity with some points in the rear of the motherboard (I mean for DAT0, CMD and CLK)? If we can find alternative points, then it's just simpler to solder them without deassembling all the motherboard and the flat connectors.

No but it should be easy enough, but I'm not betting too much that there will be other test points for the same line, if anything it will be on components or micovias

I'll give it a poke soon since I have nothing better to do right now lol. Also a good excuse to try out my new screw drivers.

Update:
Yeah about as I thought, nothing new to report the only things on the other side is the CLK line but that's already known. the DAT and CMD and still on the same side as the chip. It would be really odd to have another test point for the same line on the other side of the board.. But you never know until you test!

 

[zeruel85]

Ok, but DATA lines and CMD should be in connection with the CPU, or at least with something else. NAND cannot be isolated from the rest, there should be some traces or whatever that leads to other IC, right?

 

[Avalynn]

Ok, but DATA lines and CMD should be in connection with the CPU, or at least with something else. NAND cannot be isolated from the rest, there should be some traces or whatever that leads to other IC, right?

Most likely the NAND is directly connected to the CPU, it only takes 5 lines to connect it. I couldn't think of any other need for a separate microcontroller to handle the primary storage and boot device. So yes there should be traces but remember this is a multilayer board we are looking at, a lot of the traces are just sandwiched in between and linked through microvias.

Usually there is a test point for just about every bus or trace it's just a matter for locating it. Such as the CLK test point on the N3DS (non XL) could be closer to where the CLK signal is being generated.