N3DS NAND backup possible, I hope.

Discussion in '3DS - Console, Accessories and Hardware' started by Avalynn, Feb 13, 2015.

  1. Avalynn
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    Avalynn I'm here to help poeple out as I can.

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    So after testing out a couple different configurations, card readers and various pins this has been the pinout that works (not just for me anymore! :P)

    There may be other motherboards as time goes on that look different, so please check before you do anything. Also this is for educational purposes only and you do so at your own risk. It's taken me a couple hours to get it down but I hope it works for you as well to keep your SysNAND backed up manually or you need to restore an image because it somehow got accidentally updated :(.

    This is for the N3DS XL, just a note but the mobo has the lettering RED-CPU-01.
    00_N3DS-XL_Pins.png

    This is an alternate location on the other side of the board for CLK, it's a test point so it's a large pad to solder to and easier to access.

    AltCLK.JPG

    A ground point that's easy enough to access on the reverse side. There are a lot of them as the board uses a ground pour so you can easily hunt around for one.
    UsabeGND.jpg

    Do not use this area (the RED selected area) for a GND point because of the object in blue.
    IMG_0519.JPG
    why shouldn't I use this area for GND?
    This is for the N3DS (nonXL), just a note but the mobo has the lettering KTR-CPU-01.
    00_N3DS_Pins-Ava.jpg

    This is an alternate test point on the other side of the board for CLK for the N3DS.
    N3DS_Alt_Clk.JPG


    If you are on Windows here is a small guide for backing up the system eMMC using Win32DiskImager.


    Using the TekRepublic TUC-300 Reader I was still hitting around 6MB/s with just one DAT line and 21MB/s using all the DAT lines. Please let me know of any error or problems in any of my diagrams, this was fun to figure out. I'll keep you updated :lol:


    Alright so I've tested it fully (backups and writes) with many systems now of, both of my own and other members here, I can safely say this works well with both the Samsung and Toshiba eMMC.

    I updated to 9.5 and then restored my backup of 9.0. I posted a couple images on Page 3 post #60.

    Please note the N3DS eMMC does not work in every card reader, it can be hit or miss and this list is not exact but these are known to work with the 3DS and N3DS.

    For working card readers I have had good success with the:
    Anker® USB 3.0 (68UNMCRD-B2U) : Realtek RTS5306
    TekRepublic TUC-300 : Realtek RTS5307

    Some other card readers that use the same chipset /controller but have not been tested although should work:
    Plugable USB3-FLASH3 -
    SIIG JU-MR0E12-S1-
    Startech FCREADMICRO3 -

    Other card readers that work
    SanDisk SDDR-121-A11M (older version Grey) : GL827
    Transcend P8 TS-RDP8K : ALCOR AU6476 (Thank you Gamerquest1 and zchtoy)
    Anker® USB 3.0 4-Slot Card Reader (A7612) : RT5301 (Ava)

    Card reader chipsets known not to work on N3DS with the Samsung eMMC, but may still work on one with the Toshiba and the 3DS/XL eMMC:
    GL3220
    GL3233
    GL834

    If anyone has any other card readers they have used with success on both the N3DS Toshiba and Samsung eMMC please let me know so I can add them to the list. Thank you! ^_^

    A little bit more about the card readers I have tested and what works and what doesn't!
    SD Card Reader Info
    So that's the card readers I have and the information I have on them currently. Feel free to chime in with what works for you and what doesn't. As the N3DS eMMC seems to be pickier but not all controllers are made equally and who knows how the firmware on them is. I will add more about them and info

    Side Note: Not exactly sure but SIIG, StarTek, and Plugable all make card readers that look just like the TekRepublic one.

    Size info for the eMMC's
    Samsung 1.21 GB (1,300,234,240 bytes)
    Toshiba = 1.84 GB (1,979,711,488 bytes)

    A possible way to check if your eMMC image was any good is to look at it with a Hex Editor, I am sure there are better methods though, but this has worked for me. Also as others have said, booting the dump in emuNAND is a good way to check its validity.

    Check.JPG

    Thank you for taking the time to check this out and if you have any questions or comments please ask, I'll do my best to help! ;)


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Old Pin map
    Original Post
     
    Last edited by Avalynn, May 15, 2016


  2. Avalynn
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    Avalynn I'm here to help poeple out as I can.

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    Alright so after analyzing the 3DSXL start up a couple more times, I think I know which pins are for what, so far I am pretty sure I know what CMD is, and CLK at least, now it's a matter of getting the DAT lines in order and that's the hard part. I'll update this when I get something, here's for hoping this all works.

    Does anyone know if I can read the whole NAND using only DAT0? or do I need all four?

    Anyways I tried with just one line and it's at least showing up in Windows as a drive in my card reader the same way the 3DS-XL and 3DS did. So that's something I guess, now to try for a dump and see how large it is.

    Alright so you can't just use one line or I messed something up, N3DS boots fine still, goes into blue screen mode like it should but Win32DiskImager cannot perform the read on it. :(
     
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  3. Bug_Checker_

    Bug_Checker_ GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    This motherboard version looks different than the others I've seen. What is the region/model/firmware?
    D0-D3 should be coming from the resistor pack. I believe according to your label/pictures:
    A1=D0
    A2=D1
    A3=D2
    A4=D3
     
  4. Avalynn
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    Avalynn I'm here to help poeple out as I can.

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    Mine is a USA / N3DS XL/ 9.0
    and thank you I think there is just something with my WinDisk Imager :( cause it is messing up on the normal 3DS' or my card reader, i'll sort this out yet lol

    Soooo I finally got it ti read using Win32 Disk Imager at about 3MBs lol, painfully slow for 2GB.
    with a size of 1.84 GB (1,979,711,488 bytes). I have no way to test if it works with writing back to it. :unsure:
    I think i need to severely shorten the cables next and try on other readers.
     
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  5. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

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    if its anything like the 2DS the wires need to be as short as possible, i couldn't get it to detect on like 6 card readers, ended up getting a trancend multi reader TS-RDP8K which worked, but great work btw, are you planning to bite the bullet and see if a restore works?, also what read speeds where you getting?
     
  6. Avalynn
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    Avalynn I'm here to help poeple out as I can.

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    Ah as I stated 3 MB/s lol. Painfully slow ><
    I am going to try a couple larger wires first and shorten them also testing with a couple other reader. I only have a Transend 2.0 which isn't work, and a TekRepublic TUC-300 which is but really slow.
     
  7. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

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    if you only have dat0 connected it usually is quite slow, like 4-6MB/s, iirc its about 15MB/s if you have dat0-3 hooked up

    to put it into perspective, when i had wires that are about the same size as i normally use for the 3ds/3DS XL hooked up to the 2DS i was getting between 2-3MB/s so yeah i know what you mean with it being tedious, but as long as it works i would be happy with 1MB/s :P....its not like we should be upgrading and downgrading every day anyway, but this at least might mean n3DS owners can update to higher FW versions for N3DS exclusive titles if we loose emunand compatibility
     
  8. Avalynn
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    Avalynn I'm here to help poeple out as I can.

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    I have all the lines hooked up, but I'm not sure if they are correct. Is there an official pin-out yet? Sorry If I have missed it.
     
  9. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

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    nope your pioneering :P

    this is what i would assume would be the dat lines pinout
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Avalynn
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    Avalynn I'm here to help poeple out as I can.

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    Well if you are curious in trying yourself or anyone else for that matter here are the pins I am using.

    These are the data pins that face towards the screen:
    PossiblePins.jpg

    And this is the reverse side for ground:
    PossiblePinsGND.jpg

    Though I did find about three places that could work as clock too I think, they have have the same period but one seems to fluctuate a tiny bit, so I'm not using that one but I can post those spots too. Well they are in the first post, B1 and B2.

    Also again just for fun, here some more analyzer pictures at the first data chunk when it's turned on
    This was the from the 3DSXL (old)
    IMG_0270.JPG
    General Overview
    3DSXL-eMMC-Pins.PNG
    Data Lines
    3DSXL-eMMC-PowerON-2.PNG
    CMD Line
    3DSXL-eMMC-CMD.PNG

    And this is from the N3DSXL (new!)
    General Overview
    N3DSXL-eMMC-Pins.PNG
    Data Lines
    N3DSLL-eMMC-PowerON-2.PNG
    CMD Line
    N3DSXL-eMMC-CMD.PNG

    So I figure those pins seem correct since I used the pin out info from the old one and got about the same response from the new one but of course data in different places, their memory clocks seem the same though.
     
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  11. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

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    hmmmm im tempted now, i kinda said to myself i would leave my n3DS as it is unless needed (accidental update or whatever).....but i do like to mess about with stuff XD

    well guess you have the dat lines hooked up how i would of figured they went.....maybe try with only dat0 connected and see what you get in terms of speed
     
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  12. Avalynn
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    Avalynn I'm here to help poeple out as I can.

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    So I am really hoping I got all those lines correctly and didn't mess any of them up, both the captures from the 3DSXL and the N3DSXL seem to match up, meaning that I would assume (and that's a bad thing to do I know) the pins are somewhat correct but maybe the I've gotten the data pins out of order?

    I've been playing with them spawping them around, trying one at a time and the only successful dump I got was from earlier when all were connected but I'll keep you posted if I can do it with only one and it honestly could just be my card readers :hateit:
     
  13. Bug_Checker_

    Bug_Checker_ GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    I believe your numbering is incorrect. The OP should try my numbering. If I recall I based it off of something like
    http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/images/8/85/EMMC-BGA169.png

    Where "H2" is a nc so they run the trace under that straight to D3 bga pad
     
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  14. Avalynn
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    Avalynn I'm here to help poeple out as I can.

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    I'll give it another shot again in various configurations. I was basing it off the resistor network in place, like they did with the older 3DSXL
    http://3dbrew.org/w/images/2/22/CTR_NAND_pinout_XL.jpg

    but then again this comes at completely different angle lol, If only I had bought a xray machine instead of a N3DS j/k.
     
  15. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

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    so basically try like this right?
    [removed to save future confusion for people :)]

    unless i just read that completely wrong XD
     
  16. Avalynn
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    Avalynn I'm here to help poeple out as I can.

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    Curious, does anyone recognize that memory manufacture logo stamp? I do not keep up with those only MCUs and SoCs unfortunately, and major ones at that lol. :glare:
     
  17. Bug_Checker_

    Bug_Checker_ GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Yes, that was what I was suggesting.
    This is based on my memory and the different grouping of the Japanese or EUR N3DS(I seem to recall they were in a tight square. I believe that pinout was
    D0=SW
    D1=SE
    D2=NE
    D3=NW
    counter clockwise starting at bottom left if the chip was to the right of the pads. Again, if I recall correctly.
     
  18. Avalynn
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    Avalynn I'm here to help poeple out as I can.

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    So is there an "official" pinout for the EUR and JPN N3DS XL's then?
     
  19. Bug_Checker_

    Bug_Checker_ GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    No, not official just a guess.
    I was assuming Motherboard version would be the same/similar and would experiment with NA N3DS. But, Now different motherboards and the Red consoles I have access to are way tooooo close to cut off for 9.4 that they may get returned unopened.
     
  20. Avalynn
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    Avalynn I'm here to help poeple out as I can.

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    Alright I managed to get 10 MB/s then it dropped to 3 lol but it's reading with my other reader after cleaning up the wires and joints. :)

    hmm sustained 5,5 MB/s using only one data line now ^^

    I'll update my main post with my findings in a bit, but so far i've gotten 5 fulls dumps supposedly.

    sooo I tried it using both ways and DAT0 seems to be on A4 or the left most pin.I've tried using second most bottom pin as suggest and it would not show up as a readable drive. I've also tried using the pin method as suggest by Bug_Checker_ but it would start at 10MBs then drop to 3MBs then have an I/O error.