OK, one more photo shoot. About to go to bed though because it's late here, so no more images for a while.
OK, one more photo shoot. About to go to bed though because it's late here, so no more images for a while.
I'm fine with soldering, but I don't see a way to route the wires to the outside. It also looks like a whole bunch of ribbon cables to deal with as well. I really hate those. It always takes some fiddling around with to get them just right and all along, it could be a splatter or something stupid with my soldering that caused the issue. This will be a headache.
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2007
- Messages
- 4,426
- Trophies
- 3
- Age
- 36
- Location
- Levelland, Texas
- Website
- www.mariopc.co.nr
- XP
- 6,791
- Country
Well N3DS NAND mod is definitely confirmed at this point. This is definitely a news post worthy event. 
Thank you so much again for these pictures, I'd poke here and here (see image below) with an Oscope / logic analyzer or a very fast meter out of curiosity. If you meter has a frequency setting you can try that.
So far that is confirmed for the N3DS XL, US version unless someone got it work from the non XL, N3DS. I think it'll be just a mater of time really.Well N3DS NAND mod is definitely confirmed at this point. This is definitely a news post worthy event.
There is a lot of room in the XL, if you are doing the non XL then i wish you the best of luck >< yeah flat flex cables can be a pain but they serve a very good purpose. Make sure you are using short 30 AWG solid core wires, that tends to work the best for me in signal vs thickness and ease of routing.
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2007
- Messages
- 4,426
- Trophies
- 3
- Age
- 36
- Location
- Levelland, Texas
- Website
- www.mariopc.co.nr
- XP
- 6,791
- Country
Here's one trace I noticed might be the CLK if the other options Avalynn pointed out didn't pan out:
There's a trace right above the NAND chip that connects to something near the edge on the otherside. That might be the trace for the CLK signal if the layout of this chip is anything like the one from the XL unit. This trace appears to go under the top of the nand chip in a similar area as the trace for the CLK signal for the XL unit did. There's another trace next to it, but doesn't appear to go under the chip. (might just be something on the other side that just needed a path on this side to get around something) Then again, the epoxy crap on the chip makes that hard to determine.
But this is just my best guess as I'm not an electrical engineer nor do I own either of these consoles. But still something worth looking at if the other options haven't panned out.
There's a trace right above the NAND chip that connects to something near the edge on the otherside. That might be the trace for the CLK signal if the layout of this chip is anything like the one from the XL unit. This trace appears to go under the top of the nand chip in a similar area as the trace for the CLK signal for the XL unit did. There's another trace next to it, but doesn't appear to go under the chip. (might just be something on the other side that just needed a path on this side to get around something) Then again, the epoxy crap on the chip makes that hard to determine.
But this is just my best guess as I'm not an electrical engineer nor do I own either of these consoles. But still something worth looking at if the other options haven't panned out.
The stuff I have available is a lot less elegant. for my (old) 3DS XL, I picked up 2 (for a spare) 4-pin PWM extension cables (12") and cut it in half. Part Number FC44PWM-12BKS. One end is soldered to the 3DS and I took the wires from the outside->in through the wrist strap hole. The side with the connector just always hangs out. I tape it to the bottom with scotch tape. The other end of the cable is soldered to the mSD->SD adapter, of course. The wire is not solid core, but I haven't had any issues with it. It's also probably thicker than it should be.
I was going to use my spare on the N3DS XL, but it looks like there's no way of getting around using a rotary tool to get the job done. I'm not ready yet to do that to my shiny new N3DS! I'll just be patient for a while in the hopes that Gateway will have a new release that allows me to make a NAND dump. Then I won't do anything until I need to, to fix a brick.
Yes I am sure they will have a way to software dump the NAND without a problem after all it's how the emuNAND gets created (I could be totally wrong again). I prefer hardware mods over software for things of this nature but that's just me ^^, also good job with your old 3DS XL and using that type wire, I tend to not like sticking anything too large as i worry about added pressure to the board/screen/etc and I don't want to break any pads (I've done so a couple times when the wire and casing was too stiff). Kudos to you on that.
30 AWG wire is nothing particularly fancy, is it? I'm a big fan of "it works for me", but honestly, PWM extension cables sound more complicated to get than just some thin wire
. I know that regional availability can be a big issue too, though.And I feel you there--I'm honestly cringing at the thought of taking a rotary tool to my N3DS LL. I haven't even brought myself to open it yet 0_0.
To be slightly on-topic:
I have a spool of rat shack magnet wire; the red stuff, enamel-coated, 30 AWG stuff (somebody here has to remember this! anybody?). Would that work well? Obviously, mixing up your wires (all one color) could be disastrous, as could shorting them against each other (stripped enamel), but would there be any other problem?
Intuitively, it doesn't seem like enamel-coating vs. plastic coating should matter here, but perhaps I simply haven't yet fallen far enough down the EE rabbit hole yet...
30 AWG wire is nothing particularly fancy, is it? I'm a big fan of "it works for me", but honestly, PWM extension cables sound more complicated to get than just some thin wire
And I feel you there--I'm honestly cringing at the thought of taking a rotary tool to my N3DS LL. I haven't even brought myself to open it yet 0_0.
To be slightly on-topic:
I have a spool of rat shack magnet wire; the red stuff, enamel-coated, 30 AWG stuff (somebody here has to remember this! anybody?). Would that work well? Obviously, mixing up your wires (all one color) could be disastrous, as could shorting them against each other (stripped enamel), but would there be any other problem?
Intuitively, it doesn't seem like enamel-coating vs. plastic coating should matter here, but perhaps I simply haven't yet fallen far enough down the EE rabbit hole yet...
Ah yes I still have a couple spools of that myself when I was younger making silly electromagnetc with 9v batteries and nails >> *ahem* Yes that could work. I use only one color when I do most my work (that require the same gauge and under 20 wires) I just place little marks on each wire with a sharpie to differentiate and take a picture of where they are connected. I have used this type of wire in much smaller work when repairing cut traces of an IC or passively sniffing buses, so it should work just dandy.
Here's one trace I noticed might be the CLK if the other options Avalynn pointed out didn't pan out:
View attachment 15785
There's a trace right above the NAND chip that connects to something near the edge on the otherside. That might be the trace for the CLK signal if the layout of this chip is anything like the one from the XL unit. This trace appears to go under the top of the nand chip in a similar area as the trace for the CLK signal for the XL unit did. There's another trace next to it, but doesn't appear to go under the chip. (might just be something on the other side that just needed a path on this side to get around something) Then again, the epoxy crap on the chip makes that hard to determine.
But this is just my best guess as I'm not an electrical engineer nor do I own either of these consoles. But still something worth looking at if the other options haven't panned out.
It's probably the tiny two traces if that's the CLK wire. If you look carefully at the image I grabbed you can see two microvia's spaced about that far apart. Don't feel like doing it tonight though, might try it out in the morning.
Well the CLK can be in many places, I'd like to think there is a main oscillator and a couple PLL's that are creating the different CLKs for the various microcontroller onboard but that's most likely under the main CPU shielding. I didn't take too much time to study the board I was just rather curious in finding a way to backup my NAND sorry. Again I'd probe around if you have the ability to before hooking it up to anything more sensitive.
I don't have any high precision equipment or anything, but I do have a simple multimeter so here's what I found:
The tiny trace pair reports a voltage of 1.77V, which is somewhat of a good sign. The larger pair of traces shows a full voltage so it's unlikely that's the CLK pin and theother two show 0V. Looking at your charts though if the voltage is on and off at an equal rate and at a constant speed, then there's a good chance that those two traces are the CLK ones. Too lazy to solder tonight though so I'll probably wait until morning before experimenting further.
Awesome work so far, it might just be the clock then you are looking for. If it's at 1.7 then that should be just about right if the system is running at a 3.3v level and with a 50% duty cycle that's about what you'd expected. I wish I had a N3DS to look at, the placement and positioning of components are quite squished in that model, seem fun. Haha I thought you went to bed earlier >< well sleep well and I hope it works out tomorrow.
A quick note on multimeters and fast digital circuits: when used to measure a quickly-changing signal, a multimeter will show an 'average' of the voltage over time. A clock signal which goes from 0V to +5V, for example, might be measured as 2.5V.
(It sounds like you already know this very well, shiny; but, others may not.)
EDIT:
'd. (I'm not sure exactly how DMM's 'average' fast signals--if a symmetric square wave would really be measured as {[high voltage] - [low voltage]} / 2--but I was wondering if 1.77V would strongly suggest a clock signal @ 3.3V.)
Here you can find some N3DS images taken with a digital microscope. One of them ('traces.jpg') has been made after I had removed the epoxy around the NAND BGA. You can see another little trace near the BGA, I tried to follow it in the other side of the mo/bo but without any success. I tried to dump the NAND several times with different hypothetical CLKs, but noone worked. The screen turns to blue (bootrom etc.) but there is no letter appearing in Windows. I agree with you all about CMD and DAT0, so the problem remains the real CLK point, IMHO. The reader I use is the same that I usually use with the old 3DS XL and it works flawlessly, so the problem might be the CLK point, I suppose.
Link to images:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/myey5vto1diqu8g/AACWqZb7q2A-sSKheaCd4Q85a?dl=0
Link to images:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/myey5vto1diqu8g/AACWqZb7q2A-sSKheaCd4Q85a?dl=0
Have you tried the point I mentioned earlier? If you have I'll continue searching for the right CLK point if that's the case.
EDIT: Apparently my FPGa board I have can be used as a Sump logic analyzer. Will poke around on the top side of the board and see what there is.
