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Miyamoto: Sony should learn from Nintendo's mistakes
- Thread starter DiscostewSM
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D
Deleted_171835
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?
I was under the impression that the Vita version only had MGS2/MGS3 before. I stand corrected.
Emigre, sometimes I don't understand you, but you're still on my "top of GBATemp members" list.
I don't have either systems, so my claims don't really have anything to do with facts. The main thing I get from what Miyamoto stated was that there was a lack of software at launch. I don't care about the fact of how sales are doing right now (and, yes, I agree the point of the Vita only being out for a short amount of time is very contributive to the fact of lower weekly sales, and I'm sure that will pick up in due time), I care more about the theory related things in the opening post that do with sales: having the proper software for the system (and other theories that go into it is, of course, the game base in due time). I also think of one other thing that Miyamoto said: width and depth. The Wii was used in that case, where he felt that the width was there for a lot of people to buy the system, because of some game they could get with it, but the depth was absolutely missing for the more serious gamers. Sony and MS covered the depth a lot better, but they completely miss on casuals IMO, unless the casuals get into a certain game because one of their gamer friends showed them it. The game base on the respective systems was not there as well, thus the word of mouth only applied to gamers than casuals.
That's the biggest challenge any company will face: Providing the things for those who are more serious, but not focusing solely on that so that everyone else is excluded. To give an example: The biggest thing in the DDR community here is putting a whole bunch of songs on our local machine for the community. That COMPLETELY turns off the casuals though that have no idea where to go when the play the machine :/ It, personally, bugs me, because I WANT the more casuals to be into it.
The same thing will go for the 3DS and the Vita: Both companies will look for getting as much money as they can, but it also has to be marketed right. Nintendo's mistake at launch was two things to me: High price and lack of software. Sony's mistake at launch was two things also to me: Lack of knowledge of system and lack of software. In Nintendo's shoes, I would also use the same comment of something that two companies had similar problems, and "talking down" about how the other company did not look at someone else's mistakes, while still showing themselves as goody goody people that just care about the people. Marketing 101, yo.
tl;dr - Thread is out of proportions IMO. Companies both had faults, one softly attacked the other to improve their image, and it's a basic tactic of ignoring all the facts and having people look at just the one thing that was comparable between the two. There's other contributing factors that are ignored, and if anyone takes a moment to step back and do some research, they'll discover those other factors easily enough.
I don't have either systems, so my claims don't really have anything to do with facts. The main thing I get from what Miyamoto stated was that there was a lack of software at launch. I don't care about the fact of how sales are doing right now (and, yes, I agree the point of the Vita only being out for a short amount of time is very contributive to the fact of lower weekly sales, and I'm sure that will pick up in due time), I care more about the theory related things in the opening post that do with sales: having the proper software for the system (and other theories that go into it is, of course, the game base in due time). I also think of one other thing that Miyamoto said: width and depth. The Wii was used in that case, where he felt that the width was there for a lot of people to buy the system, because of some game they could get with it, but the depth was absolutely missing for the more serious gamers. Sony and MS covered the depth a lot better, but they completely miss on casuals IMO, unless the casuals get into a certain game because one of their gamer friends showed them it. The game base on the respective systems was not there as well, thus the word of mouth only applied to gamers than casuals.
That's the biggest challenge any company will face: Providing the things for those who are more serious, but not focusing solely on that so that everyone else is excluded. To give an example: The biggest thing in the DDR community here is putting a whole bunch of songs on our local machine for the community. That COMPLETELY turns off the casuals though that have no idea where to go when the play the machine :/ It, personally, bugs me, because I WANT the more casuals to be into it.
The same thing will go for the 3DS and the Vita: Both companies will look for getting as much money as they can, but it also has to be marketed right. Nintendo's mistake at launch was two things to me: High price and lack of software. Sony's mistake at launch was two things also to me: Lack of knowledge of system and lack of software. In Nintendo's shoes, I would also use the same comment of something that two companies had similar problems, and "talking down" about how the other company did not look at someone else's mistakes, while still showing themselves as goody goody people that just care about the people. Marketing 101, yo.
tl;dr - Thread is out of proportions IMO. Companies both had faults, one softly attacked the other to improve their image, and it's a basic tactic of ignoring all the facts and having people look at just the one thing that was comparable between the two. There's other contributing factors that are ignored, and if anyone takes a moment to step back and do some research, they'll discover those other factors easily enough.
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There's just something about the top dog of a company saying something about another company that riles people up. Whether good or bad, many people take what they say in the worst possible way, blowing it out of proportion. Society today......
People say what Miyamoto said was uncalled for, yet for all we know, this may not have been an "out-of-the-blue" swing at Sony. This may have been because a question was brought up by Edge about what he thinks about the current situation with the Vita, since it was no secret of their situation. Mr. Miyamoto even went as far as going into Nintendo's own similar problems when they released the 3DS. If you're trying to attack the competition, you don't go on about your own faults to make yourself look just as bad. How many people really think he was doing this to attack Sony? I honestly don't think he was.
Offtopic, who added a "crap" link to one of my earlier posts? I found that humorous.
edit:
Nvm, seems this link stuff is a feature on GBATemp. I like it.
People say what Miyamoto said was uncalled for, yet for all we know, this may not have been an "out-of-the-blue" swing at Sony. This may have been because a question was brought up by Edge about what he thinks about the current situation with the Vita, since it was no secret of their situation. Mr. Miyamoto even went as far as going into Nintendo's own similar problems when they released the 3DS. If you're trying to attack the competition, you don't go on about your own faults to make yourself look just as bad. How many people really think he was doing this to attack Sony? I honestly don't think he was.
Offtopic, who added a "crap" link to one of my earlier posts? I found that humorous.
edit:
Nvm, seems this link stuff is a feature on GBATemp. I like it.
Really? So if I type crap will it do the same? We'll find out!
As for the "[going] on about your own faults" thing, no, I do that sometimes too. Think about it: Do you prefer someone who is overly cocky and points out other peoples flaws (whether attack-like or matter of fact-like) without recognizing their own, or do you prefer someone who can admit faults of their own while pointing out flaws in others? I know personally, I prefer the latter, as the former just speaks that the person does not care for others, one way or another. The latter, while being more leading to them caring about others, still does have a little room available for themselves to just know what to say to others to win them to their side. Politics, essentially. That's why it's important to know the person themselves.
As for speculating whether or not Miyamoto was directly attacking the other company: I'll ride the fence from a factual stand point, but note that on a personal level, I don't think he's directly attacking the company otherwise, and those who honestly think that, are just the greedy type person themselves who say "woe is me" when they lose their necklace or something, totally ignoring the person beside them who lost their club sandwich that they just spent their last dollar on.
... Okay, probably not to THAT degree, but you get the picture.
And if anyone is thinking, yes, I do like using examples and typing quite bit. I have not mastered the art of speaking 10 powerful words in place of 1,000 conversative words, but it is something that will improve in time.
EDIT: And yeah, looks like it does auto-place that link in. Dunno how I feel about that :/
As for the "[going] on about your own faults" thing, no, I do that sometimes too. Think about it: Do you prefer someone who is overly cocky and points out other peoples flaws (whether attack-like or matter of fact-like) without recognizing their own, or do you prefer someone who can admit faults of their own while pointing out flaws in others? I know personally, I prefer the latter, as the former just speaks that the person does not care for others, one way or another. The latter, while being more leading to them caring about others, still does have a little room available for themselves to just know what to say to others to win them to their side. Politics, essentially. That's why it's important to know the person themselves.
As for speculating whether or not Miyamoto was directly attacking the other company: I'll ride the fence from a factual stand point, but note that on a personal level, I don't think he's directly attacking the company otherwise, and those who honestly think that, are just the greedy type person themselves who say "woe is me" when they lose their necklace or something, totally ignoring the person beside them who lost their club sandwich that they just spent their last dollar on.
... Okay, probably not to THAT degree, but you get the picture.
And if anyone is thinking, yes, I do like using examples and typing quite bit. I have not mastered the art of speaking 10 powerful words in place of 1,000 conversative words, but it is something that will improve in time.
EDIT: And yeah, looks like it does auto-place that link in. Dunno how I feel about that :/
But they're still selling like hotcakes, so games, ports or whatever they are they're doing much better than Vita's sales. And they aren't that cheap you know
No, they're selling because they cut the price.
D
Deleted_171835
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The price cut was not the sole factor. I follow the sales threads over at Gaf and the price-cut only boosted sales for a short while. It was Mario Kart and 3D Land that really gave it the boost (again, games).But they're still selling like hotcakes, so games, ports or whatever they are they're doing much better than Vita's sales. And they aren't that cheap you know
No, they're selling because they cut the price.
They had big releases during the price cut (like Ocarina of Time, Star Fox 64, etc) and the system only spiked during them and then bombed back to its normal holding. The price cut was absolutely the #1 factor towards its current "success".
D
Deleted_171835
Guest
Before the price-drop, (Aug 01 - Aug 07):
Code:
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|System | This Week | Last Week | Last Year | YTD | Last YTD | LTD |
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| 3DS | 4.132 | 16.415 | | 1.310.288 | | 1.310.288 |After the price-drop, (Aug 08 - Aug 14):
Code:
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|System | This Week | Last Week | Last Year | YTD | Last YTD | LTD |
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| 3DS | 196.077 | 4.132 | | 1.506.365 | | 1.506.365 |Soon after the pricedrop, (Sep 12 - Sep 18):
Code:
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|System | This Week | Last Week | Last Year | YTD | Last YTD | LTD |
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| 3DS | 58.837 | 49.076 | | 1.835.442 | | 1.835.442 |Super Mario 3D Land release, (Oct 31 - Nov 06)
Code:
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|System | This Week | Last Week | Last Year | YTD | Last YTD | LTD |
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| 3DS | 145.271 | 65.041 | | 2.356.915 | | 2.356.915 |Fucking Monster Hunter and Mario Kart 7 the week prior, (Dec 05 - Dec 11):
Code:
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|System | This Week | Last Week | Last Year | YTD | Last YTD | LTD |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 3DS | 350.321 | 205.962 | | 3.234.299 | | 3.234.299 |With this, it's easy to tell that while the price-drop did help boost sales a little, it was the games that brought a lasting sales boost. Ocarina of Time and Star Fox were simply remastered ports, not new games. That's why they didn't bring in a huge sales boost. If Sony wants the Vita to succeed, they need some notable games. Not just a price-drop.
Well, a price cut gets people who are holdouts to purchase because it's below or at their max. That's common sense. That leads to game sales from new system owners. If your friend shows you a game, you're more likely to want to borrow or even buy the system. These are intermingled causes, though. The effect is overall growth in both, and very objective. Which cause was the most important? Not so much - it's feedback and has delay aspects as well. I mean, talking from an economics POV, BOTH increased system BOTH system and games revenue. Sadly, revenue isn't the same thing as profit. Given tradition, you should expect systems to be 'loss leaders' while games barely break even after 'bribing' the retail channel and marketing and... Well, you get the idea.
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Ehhhh that's not QUITE 45%... do the math and it comes to 32% off. But yeah, I agree, that was a pretty massive cut.
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That was the official price cut, I talking about what retailers are selling the thing for. £230 GBP at launch, now I can go into the supermarket and pick one up for around £120-130.
I wish my cable company didn't work the other way around. Jumped 45% from one month to the next. Yeah, going to hope it's a billing error (unlikely - this is Comcast we're talking about) but might just have to get off of cable.
If you see a 3DS 2 by October, then Nintendo has majorly screwed up. They'd be forcing people who just now have started buying 3DS games, to split their money between the new system (definitely unprofitable) and games (possibly profitable).
If you see a 3DS 2 by October, then Nintendo has majorly screwed up. They'd be forcing people who just now have started buying 3DS games, to split their money between the new system (definitely unprofitable) and games (possibly profitable).
Lets see (Vita)
The Vita does not have many RPGs exclusive to the Vita and only two decent ones and only Ragnarok Odyssey isn't a port out of the two.
No decent ecchi titles
No Monster Hunter
No real killer 1st party title (Japan only)
Lack of stable PSP support, UMD passport sucks and is Japan only
3DS
Has perfect DS support no passport shit required
Senran Kagura as a decent ecchi title and successful as well
New Love Plus for a way more than decent dating sim, Ciel no Surge is not good at all
Mario, Link, and Pit for first party
Pokemon for a decent RPG (although it's still DS), not to mention Conquest.
NES classics
The Vita does not have many RPGs exclusive to the Vita and only two decent ones and only Ragnarok Odyssey isn't a port out of the two.
No decent ecchi titles
No Monster Hunter
No real killer 1st party title (Japan only)
Lack of stable PSP support, UMD passport sucks and is Japan only
3DS
Has perfect DS support no passport shit required
Senran Kagura as a decent ecchi title and successful as well
New Love Plus for a way more than decent dating sim, Ciel no Surge is not good at all
Mario, Link, and Pit for first party
Pokemon for a decent RPG (although it's still DS), not to mention Conquest.
NES classics
Your complaints seem to be "it's not Japanese enough" and this complaint altogether is just completely contradictory. You'll bash the Vita for not having "good RPGs" but praise the 3DS for having a DS RPG? You do realize you can get like Persona 1-3 Portable, Dissidia 012, and others on the PSN Store? Yeah, you have to pay for them if you didn't purchase a digital copy already, but they're still RPGs playable on the system.
I meant lack of Vita exclusive RPGs, and yes it really is not Japanese enough, you see how bad it sells there, there's little there to import that's Vita exclusive.
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