Hacking Let's make WiiFlow Simple and Beautiful Again

spacepimp

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EDIT: 'B' Now opens the source menu! THANKS to all that supported the idea! and espescially FIX94 who coded it (in like, half an hour - man's a GENIUS).


Thanks to fix et al for Wiiflow, it rocks my world.
While there is broad agreement that fixes and functionality must come first, development has been so fast that the interface has become a bit clunky.

This topic is intended to provoke a lively(!) discussion about the wiiflow front end. Simply put, the goal is to make WiiFlow more idiot proof, more simple and intuitive to use, even more beautiful, but mostly more FUN :) .

There's a list of 2nd draft submissions here.

http://gbatemp.net/t...ost__p__4285727

Your additions, comments (and ARTWORK!) are welcome.

If you think the ideas presented here are overly difficult to implement, or just plain wrong, or you think something's a great idea, or you can think of better ways to get around wiiflow, let's talk it through, but, most importantly

Let's get some solid ideas on googlecode!


EDIT:The first page has some genuine contributions but largely deals with the usual b :ha: llocks, you may or may not find it amusing. Page2 begins with some nice tips and then... it all gets a bit more interesting.
shortcuts and tips welcome.
SP

EDIT: Perhaps If you think an Idea is worth someone coding, you could *like* a post, then perhaps the user who suggested it might be encouraged to put the idea you liked on googlecode!

Clearly, the 1st draft of this post detracted from the intended debate, but has caused comment, so here is the original conclusion to the OP :

"...small changes might make a big difference, but let my message be this:, Neither fix nor overjoy use the source menu and so are unlikely to develop it unless you ask them to on googlecode.

If you think the idea is worth pursuing, absolute trousers, or you have a better idea, say it there or be ignored."

Can you see which bit i regret ? ;)
 
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guinness

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Fix, overjoy, and indeed many others have worked hard over time to bring you a great piece of software absolutely free. If you really want a particular feature, then ask nicely, don't open a thread to criticise them. The source code is available, so if you want a change, do it yourself, otherwise wait patiently, and they may or may not do it. It's their baby, so they will do with it as they wish. If you're feeling ignored, it may be because you're being annoying, so go and cry elsewhere.
 

FIX94

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You've added those issues a few hours ago, do you really think things go THAT fast? Some issues took us over a month because of so much to do, so I dont really like it that you now already come and start whining.
 
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pwsincd

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i like the OP's thinking , maybe asking too much i dunno but he has valid points. I would like the option to remove sources , i dunno if its alreayd possible , but i recently started using the plugins , i dont want the kids having access to the hombred apps on the sd
 
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spacepimp

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Ok, let's take a deep breath shall we? I've obviously upset some folks, so I really want to reiterate how thankful i am for the recent developments in WiiFlow. Simply put, i use them every day, and have fix, overjoy and the rest to thank. My only 'criticism', and i think it's more of a reasonable observation, is that because development has been so fast, the user experience has got a little left behind. Obviously I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Nor, for that matter, do i expect code to appear at the click of my fingers.
However, fledge has taken it upon himself to own one of the issues, and dismiss the other out of hand. While this is perfectly within his rights, he does after all write the code, it strikes me as unreasonable that he's closed down any debate. Hence this topic.
If it's come across as a bit of (or a lot of) a whine, i can only apologise. My genuine intention was to open up a conversation about getting around the interface, i would hope that should you re-read my original statements that would become clear.
If anyone has comments about the actual ideas, good or bad, I really would like to hear them.
 

Wiimpathy

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First, I just want to say I'm glad and grateful with all the efforts and the latest features in Wiiflow.
Those requests to keep it simple to use are quite justified, though. I remember when the categories were implemented just after Hibern left the project. It was a damn good idea and well implemented. But, clicking B on Wiimote wasn't natural (for me?) so I changed the code to have another icon in menu.

Now, we have so many features with emulators, homebrew, channels and so on, it's not so easy to integrate all in GUI without having many icons. The source menu seems a pretty good idea, removing the exit icon would be good to more space.
I don't follow every revs, so don't know exactly where we're at now, but I'm sure a lot of users are a little lost.

Anyway, thanks to all the devs.
 

spacepimp

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Another idea to help move through wiiflow quickly-
I have a lot of games. SO many, in fact, that I spend a lot of time scrolling to find the one i want. A solution might be that there's a horizontal coarse scroll wheel right at the top of coverflow, displaying the first letter of the currently viewed game. It pops down when you hover at the top of the screen, or use the + - keys (fast scrolling). The idea is that you can find a title more quickly by scrolling through the letters, perhaps by clicking and dragging the wheel, clicking direction arrows, or using the direction keys while pointing at the wheel.

This will involve entirely new code, I suppose, rather than a more progressive refinement, so I won't put a feature request in unless someone else thinks it's a worthwhile idea.
 

spacepimp

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First, I just want to say I'm glad and grateful with all the efforts and the latest features in Wiiflow.
Those requests to keep it simple to use are quite justified, though. I remember when the categories were implemented just after Hibern left the project. It was a damn good idea and well implemented. But, clicking B on Wiimote wasn't natural (for me?) so I changed the code to have another icon in menu.

Now, we have so many features with emulators, homebrew, channels and so on, it's not so easy to integrate all in GUI without having many icons. The source menu seems a pretty good idea, removing the exit icon would be good to more space.
I don't follow every revs, so don't know exactly where we're at now, but I'm sure a lot of users are a little lost.

Anyway, thanks to all the devs.
Thanks for your comments, I would agree in particular that less icons makes for a cleaner interface. It bears repeating that much of the functionality of the buttons in coverflow is already implemented in the source menu, and the buttons can be removed and/or replaced with, say, a categories button. I would also add that, imo, the DVD Game launch button could be better implemented in the source menu, rather than clogging up coverflow.
 

guinness

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No need to hide behind a PM spacepimp. Thought I'd post this here so people can see your true colours. Just read my first post again, and the posts of others, and you'll see why people including myself were incensed by your comments. I have no more to say on the subject.
 
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FIX94

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You remember the forum rules don't you?
"If you have an issue with a member or moderation decision contact the member in question or a staff member via PM. DO NOT air your grievances publicly in the original topic or otherwise."
 
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spacepimp

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Well, i had PM'd you to keep this thread on topic, but as that appears to have gone out of the window, I'll reply here. I should say firstly that I quickly regretted PM ing you the above message, which is why i retracted the message before you'd read it. Obviously, that failed, and you've moved onto an even higher horse. I've taken your invitation to read your post again, and although I regret the wording of my PM, the sentiment is bang on. if i may:
Fix, overjoy, and indeed many others have worked hard over time to bring you a great piece of software absolutely free. If you really want a particular feature, then ask nicely, don't open a thread to criticise them. The source code is available, so if you want a change, do it yourself, otherwise wait patiently, and they may or may not do it. It's their baby, so they will do with it as they wish. If you're feeling ignored, it may be because you're being annoying, so go and cry elsewhere.
Really?
Once i'd managed to turn down the irritating whine emitting from your post, I realised that you and I have fundamentally differing ideas about what a forum is. To understand my thinking, I would suggest you look up the word 'forum'. You will note the words 'slavishly toeing the party line' and 'defending the honour of our glorious leaders' do not appear anywhere. 'Debate', however, probably does.
Now, if you have comments on the content of my suggestion on googlecode, or have any ideas about moving around wiiflow in general, i'd like to hear them.
 
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spacepimp

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Last word on the matter - Fix has kindly allowed me to post this from a PM i'd written yesterday morning to keep this thread on topic.

"Reading the initial post back, I can see how my closing comments might be understood differently from their intention. Please let me explain. We'd had a conversation on #wiiflow in which you told me you didn't use the source menu, and that some developers had had a private conversation and decided against working on a "sourceflow", for fair and valid reasons. Of course, this is absolutely appropriate, private conversations are necessary in order to make decisions about priorities, and you can code whatever you like! :D
However, it is true to say that the balance between pros and cons had not been widely discussed. It may well be that the ideas do not warrant wide discussion, but I had felt, perhaps with good cause, that the ideas were being 'closed down' without being given the chance to find out. On reflection, you may see why i had that perspective, but If you still think I've been overly critical, or unfair to you or the devs, please let me know. I genuinely want to know when I've ballsed up, and i'm happy to apologise when i'm wrong. I'm also happy to post the above explanation, only it refers to a private conversation, and also I'd rather keep the thread on topic. A laughable ambition. ;) "

I would ask that you PM me, rather than post here, if you do have any comments. I would also add, and I'm sure that Fix won't mind me mentioning this, that when I asked him where I, as a user, could have influence over wiiflow's development, he told me to go on googlecode.


 

spacepimp

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Another idea to help move through wiiflow quickly-
I have a lot of games. SO many, in fact, that I spend a lot of time scrolling to find the one i want. A solution might be that there's a horizontal coarse scroll wheel right at the top of coverflow, displaying the first letter of the currently viewed game. It pops down when you hover at the top of the screen, or use the + - keys (fast scrolling). The idea is that you can find a title more quickly by scrolling through the letters, perhaps by clicking and dragging the wheel, clicking direction arrows, or using the direction keys while pointing at the wheel.

This will involve entirely new code, I suppose, rather than a more progressive refinement, so I won't put a feature request in unless someone else thinks it's a worthwhile idea.
Actually you have several ways to scan your games quickly in Wiiflow,
Just hold B and press UP or Down to jump from one letter to another, you can also enable gestures in wiiflow.ini and hold B and "Tilt" your wiimote right and left.

These are good solutions to the problem, I do need to investigate gestures, is there a toggle in settings? or which ini do i have to edit? ;)
I was unaware that the ability to jump letters already existed, if the functionality is already there, perhaps we could discuss that it also be invoked when pressing pop-down direction buttons i described?
My thinking is that seeing something on the screen and clicking on it is more intuitive than holding down the b button and simultaneously press either up or down. Don't get me wrong, that is a great shortcut! :) EDIT: thanks Abz!
It might also be useful to see the Initial of the currently selected game, see what your actually scrolling thru? maybe display the letter when you hold down the 'modifier' button? Actually, if you were to do that, you might as well put an arrow either side it.
edit: You may ask why I'm proposing more buttons when simultaneously calling for a cleaner interface, but fast scrolling does seem quite fundamental to finding stuff :) EDIT: Am I wrong in this? what do you think, dear forum lurker? is it easy to wade thru your titles?

EDIT - this idea has been superseded by Maxternal's roulette wheel scrolling!!!!!!!!!!!
 

AbdallahTerro

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The main idea behind wiiflow is to keep things as simple as possible, even adding a single button gets a lot of debate. I think you should start familiarizing yourself with shortcuts for instance B on home for source_menu, B on settings for rebuild cache, B on modes for emunand (though useless now) but once they become your bread and butter you should use the interface in a much faster and fruitful way.
 

pepxl

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while using the shortcut key to jump from letter to letter you will jump to the first game starting with that character, then if you wish to fast scroll instead of a one by one basis you simply use + and - to jump ahead 10 or so games at a time.

All of this is in the meta.xml and help file
 

Maxternal

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Code:
Controls:
- Main menu (coverflow) :
-- Up / Down  =  Previous / next game (vertical)
-- Left / Right  =  Previous / next game (horizontal)
-- Minus / Plus  =  Fast skip through games
-- A  =  Select game
-- B+A  =  Launch game immediately
-- B+Home  =  Reload Wiiflow
-- Home  =  Exit to Wii menu
-- 1 / 2  =  Previous / next coverflow mode
-- B+Left / B+Right  =  Change Song
-- B+UP / B+DOWN  =  Alphabetic search
-- B+Onscreen Arrows  =  Alphabetic search
-- B+Minus  =  Switch Partition
-- B+Plus  =  Sort Games

-- A on Star Icon  =  Favorites
-- B on Star Icon  =  Categories
-- A on Gear Icon  =  Wiiflow settings
-- B on Gear Icon  =  Refresh cache
-- A on USB, DML, Channels, Emu, or Homebrew Icon  =  Switch to that view
-- B on USB, DML, Channels, Emu, or Homebrew Icon  =  Enable/Disable Emu-NAND and switch to Channels view
-- A on Home Icon  =  Exit to Wii menu
-- B on Home Icon  =  Display Source menu
-- A on Disc Icon (Game Disc in Drive)  =  Launch game disc
-- A on Question Mark Icon  =  Display credits and this help file, and update WiiFlow

- Game :
-- A on box  =  Show the backside
-- A out of screen  =  Launch game
-- B  =  Back to coverflow
-- Up / Down  =  Previous / next game (vertical)
-- Left / Right  =  Previous / next game (horizontal)
-- Plus  =  Game Info
---Right (in Game Info)  =  Game Description
---Left  (in Game Desc)  =  Game Info
-- A on Star Icon  =  Toggle Favorite (Yellow = Favorite)
-- B on Star Icon  =  Set Categories for game
-- A on Hand Icon  =  Parental Lock (Red = locked)
-- A on Gear Icon  =  Game Settings
-- A on X Icon  =   Delete Game

- Settings menus :
-- Minus / Plus  =  Previous / next page
-- Left / Right  =  Previous / next page

- Coverflow Adjust settings :
-- B+Minus / B+Plus  =  Previous / next page
-- B  =  Faster adjustment (B+A instead of just A to click a button)
-- B+1  =  Copy whole coverflow
-- B+2  =  Paste coverflow\n\

TIPS for running games that crash:
If the game just locks up with a black screen at launch then check to see if it is a PAL game.
(Press the Plus button on the game screen.)  If it is PAL, then set the game's video mode to "PAL 50Hz" in the game's setting screen.
You will need to use a component connection to the TV and have your WII set to 480p video mode.

If a game crashes, then try running the game again.  If it continually crashes, then turn the USB Emulation to \"Off\" in the game's setting screen.
You can put this in your /wiiflow/help/ folder and use the
btninfos.png
button for shortcut reference in the future.
(right click where it says "view raw file" and save it.)


EDIT : Additionally, the description in the HBC says this :
Code:
	WiiFlow is a Wii Game, Channel, Wiiware, Virtual Console, and Savegame Emulator intended for use with legal backups.
Controls:
- Main menu (coverflow):
-- Up / Down			Previous / next game (vertical)
-- Left / Right		 Previous / next game (horizontal)
-- A					Select game
-- B+A				  Launch game immediately
-- B+Home			   Reload Wiiflow
-- Home				 Exit
-- 1 / 2				Previous / next coverflow mode
-- B+Left / B+Right	 Change Song
-- B+UP / B+DOWN		Alphabetic search
-- B+Minus			  Switch Partition
-- B+Plus			   Sort Games
-- Minus+Home		   Exit to Homebrew Channel
-- Plus+Home			Exit to System Menu
-- 1+Home			   Exit to Priiloader
-- 2+Home			   Exit to BootMii

-- Minus+A on Exit Icon Exit to Homebrew Channel
-- Plus+A on Exit Icon  Exit to System Menu
-- 1+A on Exit Icon	 Exit to Priiloader
-- 2+A on Exit Icon	 Exit to BootMii
-- B on View Icon	   Enable/Disable Nand emulator

- Game :
-- A on box			 Show the backside
-- A out of screen	  Launch game
-- B					Back to coverflow
-- Minus / Plus		 Previous / next game (vertical)
-- Left / Right		 Previous / next game (horizontal)

- Settings menus :
-- Minus / Plus		 Previous / next page
-- Left / Right		 Previous / next page

- Coverflow settings :
-- B+Minus / B+Plus	 Previous / next page
-- B					Faster adjustement (B+A instead of just A to click a button)
-- B+1				  Copy whole coverflow
-- B+2				  Paste coverflow
Each has some information the other doesn't, I think.

The nun-chuck does stuff, too, as well as the GameCube controller, guitar and classic controller. WiiFloWiki.com has a chart for that although I'm not sure how up to date it is.
 

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