Is all masculinity toxic?

Discussion in 'General Off-Topic Chat' started by leafeon34, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. leafeon34
    OP

    leafeon34 意地悪な男の人

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    Please keep it civil.
     
  2. Coolsonickirby

    Coolsonickirby GBAtemp Regular

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    I'm wondering if this should be in the EOF cause it seems like a joke of a title. You can't say everything in a certain group is toxic. If a couple of humans are toxic, then should I call humanity toxic itself?

    Simple answer to your question: No.
     
  3. gameboy

    gameboy GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    do women really want their men to be a p*ssy? explain OP
     
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  4. kuwanger

    kuwanger GBAtemp Maniac

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    Masculinity is not toxic, but there is toxic masculinity. Femininity is not toxic, but there is toxic femininity. The end.
     
  5. linuxares

    linuxares I'm not a generous god!

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    Humans are toxic, not some special "sort of people".
     
  6. jurassicplayer

    jurassicplayer Completionist Themer

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    Ur all toxic, I hate u all.

    - With love,
    Jurassicplayer
     
  7. Lilith Valentine

    Lilith Valentine GBATemp's Wolf-husky™ definitely not Lilith

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    The greatest misinterpretation to the term "toxic masculinity" is that it applies to masculinity as a whole when that isn't the case.
    Toxic masculinity refers to the cultural idea that being masculine means confirming to one standard of masculinity, which is often a cultural abusive form that suppresses male emotions, gender expression/exploration, sexuality, and basically requires men to fall into the cultural norm or be hated. This is what is referred to as "toxic masculinity" and it a problem with real effects on the mental health of mostly young men.
     
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  8. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Gendered toxicity is a term I see thrown around from time to time but nobody seems to have come remotely close to either codifying it or giving me some kind of flow chart/diagnostic pathway I can use to narrow it down. Similarly I have not properly checked but I have not see it in any kind of diagnostic manual for psychiatry types, and while they would not need to have one for it to be a useful term it makes it then a general language term and thus a bit more fuzzy by nature. Many times, in fact the overwhelming majority of times, I also see it used by cretins and they have it encompass perfectly fine behaviours*.
    Owing to the mob from the previous sentence I find the phrase somewhat meaningless and anybody that does care to use something that might fall into that world will have to spell it out, which is a pity as shorthand is supposed to save us from having to explain at length.

    *not even some kind of debatable edge case or matter of degree but in response to a discussion wherein it was mentioned that my main hobbies/activities/things I fill my days with are building stuff, playing with tools, exploring and computer games.

    There probably are behaviours endemic to, or at least commonly associated with, either gender that if left untempered, undirected or unfocused would often lead to bad places or behaviours detrimental to social cohesion, aka a socially toxic environment.

    To answer the question of the title. I fail to see what masculinity itself is inherently or predominantly something that might be described as toxic. Those that would take it further than that and call for stereotypically gendered traits to be ablated from someone's being, or otherwise demonised, as a matter of course/upbringing is abhorrent to me, and something that I would say we already have evidence for bad outcomes when trying to achieve.
     
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  9. Bullseye

    Bullseye GBAtemp Fan

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    No, masculinity is a trait for men. Being masculine has nothing to do with being educated or knowing how to treat others.
     
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  10. Nerdtendo

    Nerdtendo Your friendly neighborhood idiot

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    I actually wanted to make the same post but didn't.

    No, masculinity is a good thing. Men and women are not equal. They ecxel and stumble at different things. Men are great at dirty work and providing for others. They also, for better and worse, are quicker decision makers. They fail at things involving humanity. For example, sensitivity, planning ahead, considering everyone in a certain situation, etc. Women on the other hand, are great at those things. Compassion, prioritizing, seeing all opinions and understanding everyone etc. However they're not built for grunt work or making decisions where not everyone wins.

    As a side note-- and this is controversal-- I think the best way to "make it" is to have a partner of the opposite sex who has natural abilities that your sex naturally struggles with. Consider the story of Esther. When the king wanted to kill all the Jews, Esther, knowing that this was wrong, decided to stop it. She knew she was in no position to overthrow her husband or run a country, so she used her natural persuasion as a women to convince the king to spare the Jewish people.

    Genders are only toxic when one thinks they're superior to the other.
     
  11. Sonic Angel Knight

    Sonic Angel Knight GBAtemp Legend

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    It's toxic when people tell me to "Man up" as a means of insult just cause as a guy myself, I may not be strong, look physically muscular, think gutless or courageous. Or much worst when some older person brags about things they done but you can't do. Basically is just terrible insult in competitive instances and I dislike it. :(

    You think it's bad when a guy tells another guy to "man up" it's worst when a woman tells a guy to "man up." But to be honest, based on observation is more about what they expect of a guy, or how they see them or want them to be like. Of course that doesn't even compared to when guys talk to women about it. I mean remember how gender divided communities are? Where "This is for men, that is for girls" Man that still a thing today. You would get ridicule if a girl wanted to play video games. This is the real toxic culprit. :blink:

    For the record, I prefer a girl who does play games over ones that don't. (Cause least I can have something in common, making it easier to connect with) :blush:

    Though it's funny when is use as a joke or some kind for comical function, just look at the ripping friends. :P
     
    Last edited by Sonic Angel Knight, Jan 30, 2019
  12. jt_1258

    jt_1258 Something

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    So less so the actual person being masculine and more so the forcing of a person to fallow said norm. as a tl;dr?
    I kinda understand, kinda why I have to hide anything from my own parents that's cute or colerful though then again that could just be them being extraordinarily homophobic and thinking I'm gay if I express any of said intrestes despite there assumption being false. Fun times.
     
  13. Alkéryn

    Alkéryn Moon Dweller ~

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    The issue isn't "toxic masculinity" but the pseudo masculinity that is in fact a lack of masculinity
     
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  14. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    This could take a while to unpack.

    First please point to where girls are ridiculed for wanting to play games? It is not a generally accepted thing.

    As for "man up" that is an interesting one. I would not have considered it much of anything. Most times I hear it then it is short hand for "are you bleeding, get back on the horse and get it done" or "it can be done, go do it". Generally it is not even on my list of phrases people take exception to.
     
  15. Nerdtendo

    Nerdtendo Your friendly neighborhood idiot

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    You're exactly right. Sometimes people need to be told to man up. I constantly tell that to myself. Used correctly, it just means you need to tighten your belt and get something done, or maybe what you're crying over doesn't really deserve tears. I've never heard it used as an insult or degrading statement
     
  16. comput3rus3r

    comput3rus3r GBAtemp Psycho!

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    you'll thank them later.
     
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  17. Lilith Valentine

    Lilith Valentine GBATemp's Wolf-husky™ definitely not Lilith

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    That is exactly what toxic masculinity is, a forced social norm of what is expected to be "masculine."
    What you just said is a great example of the effects of toxic masculinity. You are afraid of sharing yourself with your parents because you are afraid that they might harm you in some manner for not meeting their expectations of "masculinity." They will most likely think you are homosexual, thus not "masculine," and therefore something to be ashamed of. That right there is a perfect example of both toxic masculinity and the effects of toxic masculinity on an individual.
    Side note, I am sorry you live in that kind of situation. I really hope you end up in a safer place where you are free from that kind of negativity and allowed to express yourself.
     
  18. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    That is more concise than I have heard before, and possibly something I can begin to work with. That said it appears to be a phrase invented to cover different fields with things that already have names, or possibly fall under different things that would want to be treated in a different manner -- I would approach someone that does not care for high impact team sports very differently to someone being subjected to conform away the gay, or indeed any suspicion thereof. I would probably go further and treat it as a different unpleasant scenario, one almost unrelated.
     
  19. Cubuss
    This message by Cubuss has been removed from public view by DinohScene, Jan 30, 2019, Reason: No..
    Jan 30, 2019
  20. gman666

    gman666 Cubicle Expert

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    Both masculinity and femininity are so broad that there is no consensus on what they may be/detail. I feel like dealing in generalities can lead to huge disputes where there are outliers. In my opinion, masculinity goes hand in hand with being a gentleman. I can understand why people have been so upset with the recent trend to judge "masculine" behavior, but it just seems like some make the mistake of associating bad behavior with masculinity.
     
    Last edited by gman666, Jan 30, 2019
  21. the_randomizer

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    It just all stems from a stupid commercial and never should be taken seriously.
     
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