Hacking Have any of you hackers experimented with the ProPadDuo?

[Nercolate]

[Disclaimer: I am new to these forums. In case I posted this topic in the wrong place, please move it]
[Edit: bad names, bad title, bad information, sorry.]

Since many people here have experience with homebrew and hacking, I was wondering if any of you have experimented with the CircleProPad for 3DS/XL3DS. In particular, I want to know how much RAM/CPU-time does the accessory consume.

Just a few months before Nintendo released SSB4 (the only reason I bought my 3DS), they announced that the game was not going to be compatible with the CircleProPad, and that you needed to buy the new N3DS™ to play the game properly. The reasons given was that SSB4 was thoroughly optimized and the PPD consumed A LOT of CPU. (5% of the 3DS) It made me mad, but it made sense, I knew Nintendo released an underpowered machine and I still bought it.

Now MonsterHunter4Ultimate is being released outside of Japan, and it's difficult to notice that the game is CPP compatible. I don't think MH4U is anything but RAM/CPU-intensive, so how come it can include the CPP but SSB4 does not? Is MH4U better optimized, or did Nintendo lie when they claimed that SSB4 can not use CPP due to hardware limitations?

 

[Vanth88]

You mean Circle Pad Pro, and it doesn't use up any ram. What you're referring to is the New 3DS having a better CPU which helps with older and newer games.

Monster Hunter 4 uses the circle pad pro as a way to move the camera around but you don't need the circle pad to play it or the new 3ds either.

As for Super Smash Bros not using the circle pad pro? no idea but I guess they just figured since there's really no support for it why bother? with the new 3ds its built in so any newer 3ds can make use of it.

 

[gamesquest1]

probably would be better off in the homebrew section if you ant dev's to have their input, but imo i dont think the CPP (circle pad pro) wouldn't really use any resources at all ....but idk tbh but i dont see it taking anything significant up or no dev's would support it unless absolutely necessary

 

[DarkFlare69]

It uses no RAM, just the New3DS has a better CPU.

 

[gamesquest1]

well i think it would use *something* i assume, but like a really really tiny amount to have the IR service running, but it would be such a tiny amount that i couldn't see it as severely impacting gameplay of a game if used

 

[RodrigoDavy]

Masahiro Sakurai said:

Spoiler: Sakurai

“Supporting the CCP requires the use of some of the CPU’s processing load. From the information received during the development of Kid Icarus: Uprising, this is a quite large load at around 5%. Kid Icarus: Uprising and Smash both use the maximum capability of the device, so we had to abandon the idea of CCP support. With the New 3DS, we were able to support the C-Stick as the processing power is increased and it is not a peripheral device.”

So it's not about the RAM, it's about the CPU

 

[Duo8]

Well, the CPP is handled over the IR service IIRC. CPP is handled by hid, but a thread for it is created on the main program. So the game would have to handle the data from the buttons and the Circle Pad. I assume this takes as much as handling the normal buttons and pad on the system it self.
But that's it. The system already processes most of it, feeding the game raw digital signal from the CPP.

 

[Nercolate]

You mean Circle Pad Pro

Yes. I'm an idiot. - ____-

it doesn't use up any ram. What you're referring to is the New 3DS having a better CPU which helps with older and newer games.

I remember reading it was a RAM problem, but after checking my facts I was wrong. Sakurai said that SBB could not use the CPP due to hardware limitations, because the CPP was very CPU-intensive. According to him, KidIcarus' CCP-support accounted for 5% of the CPU usage.

As for Super Smash Bros not using the circle pad pro? no idea but I guess they just figured since there's really no support for it why bother? with the new 3ds its built in so any newer 3ds can make use of it.

It looks like a market ploy, artificially downgrading the previous system to motivate people to buy the newer version. SSB4 is not just any game, but the Killer App of this generation.

well i think it would use *something* i assume, but like a really really tiny amount to have the IR service running, but it would be such a tiny amount that i couldn't see it as severely impacting gameplay of a game if used

Well, the CPP is handled over the IR service IIRC. So the game would have to handle the data from the buttons and the Circle Pad. I assume this takes as much as handling the normal buttons and pad on the system it self.
But that's it. The system already processes most of it, feeding the game raw digital signal from the CPP.

So according to you the CPU usage would be neglectable and not the "5% of CPU power" Sakurai talked about? That's very interesting and dissapointing.

So it's not about the RAM, it's about the CPU

Yeah, I messed up. The first post was a mess. (I even got the name of the accessory wrong)

 

[gamesquest1]

*snip*
So according to you the CPU usage would be neglectable and not the "5% of CPU power" Sakurai talked about? That's very interesting and dissapointing.
*snip*

well idk when i posted that i was refering to the initial post claiming it took up 20% of the ram .....idk it would really depend on how the 3ds handles the CPP, i suppose with the limited processing power of the 3DS 5% of the CPU might be a feasible figure

 

[Nercolate]

it would really depend on how the 3ds handles the CPP, i suppose with the limited processing power of the 3DS 5% of the CPU might be a feasible figure

That's exactly why I created this topic, I was wondering how good the CPP is (maybe it uses polling or poorly-designed interruptions?), so I though asking people that may have worked with it. The fact that MonsterHunter4 (a game that seems very CPU-intensive) is able to support it makes me very suspicious though.

 

[Tomsquik Chill]

I think it may be because of infrared lag time between console and cpp.

 

[gamesquest1]

That's exactly why I created this topic, I was wondering how good the CPP is (maybe it uses polling or poorly-designed interruptions?), so I though asking people that may have worked with it. The fact that MonsterHunter4 (a game that seems very CPU-intensive) is able to support it makes me very suspicious though.

check with smealum iirc he added cpp support to ctrulib he might know more on the subject

 

[Duo8]

That's exactly why I created this topic, I was wondering how good the CPP is (maybe it uses polling or poorly-designed interruptions?), so I though asking people that may have worked with it. The fact that MonsterHunter4 (a game that seems very CPU-intensive) is able to support it makes me very suspicious though.

It definitely uses polling, and a thread created on the main program does that. Poll rate is 4ms I think.

 

[Nercolate]

It definitely uses polling, and a thread created on the main program does that. Poll rate is 4ms I think.

I have worked with drivers before, but at a novice level and always on Linux, never on a console. You seem to be fairly experienced on this. If you had to guess, would you say such polling could be an strain to the performance of a heavily-optimized game?

 

[Quincy]

I have worked with drivers before, but at a novice level and always on Linux, never on a console. You seem to be fairly experienced on this. If you had to guess, would you say such polling could be an strain to the performance of a heavily-optimized game?

My guess is, it would be when a game is already using (close to) 100% of available resources