Homebrew gba emulation on Dsi / Dsi xl?

[Rydian]

I wouldn't say "extremely powerful", as I can play most N64 games at 1024x768 or higher (well above the native resolution) with 2xSal filtered/scaled textures and AA/AF turned up, and I've got an AGP GeForce 6200 A-LE, which is ranked #736 out of 854 by passmark.

The majority of emulation is in the main processor.

 

[granville]

Yes, but the plugins you're using are likely not as accurate as something like Glide64, which is currently the most accurate graphics plugin for N64 and requires a very good processor and graphics card.

Still, your graphics card there is FAR superior to the GPU of the PSP or anything DS could do combined. Even my old laptop with a 16MB Radeon mobile and 1ghz Pentium 3 processor had issues emulating N64, despite being more suited to it than PSP.

I really don't see any point in this discussion anymore. No one has a development kit for the iPlayer currently. And we KNOW DSi is way too weak to emulate N64. Until someone tries their hand at developing for the iPlayer, and makes some sort of N64 emulator on it proving it can be done, it has not been done and there is no proof it can be done. Simply put- someone should prove it should be done. But without the proper tools, it's as good as impossible. You can't make a fortress wall without some sort of building materials, regardless of possibility. This thread should be closed, we're just arguing about fantasy (literally).

 

[Rydian]

We both know the spec range/differences, I was just clarifying when you said it takes extremely powerful PC graphics, as that can be read "powerful within the range of PCs" instead of "comparable to what's in a PC".

 

[rich333]

i dont know the specs, but wouldnt the NEO GEO be more powerful than some of the other things that are unable to be emulated on the DS?

if the 3D on the N64 is more powerful than the DS one, could a patch be applied to the rom to downscale it and make it compatible to the DS 3D engine, also resoulton could be scaled down to the DS specs - surley this would make it easier for the little DS?

-but i dont really know anything about it

 

[Rydian]

You'd need to modify the original/source, not the ROM/compiled version to change something to that extent.

And when you have access to the original source, you can just port it instead of emulating it.

 

[granville]

Neo Geo is similar to the sega genesis in terms of processor (Motorola 68000 @12mhz). DS emulation for it isn't perfect either, many effects are missing and cannot be emulated properly on DS hardware. Neo Geo is harder to emulate than genesis, and has superior graphics processing, but the Neo Geo is a 2d system, which the DS is good at and it can handle it to an extent.

Resolution isn't the real issue with N64. N64 has an overall more powerful processor than DS, or even DSi technically. The real problem is that the N64 can render more polygons than the DS per second. Not possible for the DS or DSi to handle on its own. We're talking in the range of tens of thousands of polygons here, the building blocks of 3D models.

 

[KevinJRussell]

So, the Supercard Two is gonna be able to run the GBA emulator on DSi, right? Any word on its release? The DSLarger is coming out soon, and I'd love to be able to play my GBA games on it. I just bought the M3i Zero not too long ago, but I don't mind buying a new one.

 

[crazyfffan]

Man, try to think this way:
-NDS,NDSL runs GBA games cartridge natively
-->So the processing power is not the problem

-If you have expansion memory in slot 2, gba games can be run directly from slot 1
-->The existence of slot-2 card is the key for running GBA games on NDS

And what's inside that slot-2 expansion card? Its the memory, nothing else
GBA games may need different type of memory with the one inside a NDS

I think its the only one reason that makes GBA games impossible to run on any ordinary super card

 

[KevinJRussell]

Man, try to think this way:
-NDS,NDSL runs GBA games cartridge natively
-->So the processing power is not the problem

-If you have expansion memory in slot 2, gba games can be run directly from slot 1
-->The existence of slot-2 card is the key for running GBA games on NDS

And what's inside that slot-2 expansion card? Its the memory, nothing else
GBA games may need different type of memory with the one inside a NDS

I think its the only one reason that makes GBA games impossible to run on any ordinary super card

I don't know what you are saying, but there is already a GBA emulator on the DSi. It not only can be done, but has been done.

 

[crazyfffan]

I don't know what you are saying, but there is already a GBA emulator on the DSi. It not only can be done, but has been done.

Show me that "GBA emulator", please
Don't tell me its the iPlayer, because as i mentioned before, its impossible to emulate GBA from flash card like Acekard, R4 or elses, because they don't have the memory that GBA games require. But iPlayer is not an ordinary card, and not a home brew, it is "GBA playing device", not an emulator.

 

[Krestent]

I don't know what you are saying, but there is already a GBA emulator on the DSi. It not only can be done, but has been done.

Show me that "GBA emulator", please
Don't tell me its the iPlayer, because as i mentioned before, its impossible to emulate GBA from flash card like Acekard, R4 or elses, because they don't have the memory that GBA games require. But iPlayer is not an ordinary card, and not a home brew, it is "GBA playing device", not an emulator.

Do you know what you're talking about? The iPlayer is not solely a GBA playing device because the GBA emulator was released after the iPlayer.

 

[Sumea]

I don't know what you are saying, but there is already a GBA emulator on the DSi. It not only can be done, but has been done.

Show me that "GBA emulator", please
Don't tell me its the iPlayer, because as i mentioned before, its impossible to emulate GBA from flash card like Acekard, R4 or elses, because they don't have the memory that GBA games require. But iPlayer is not an ordinary card, and not a home brew, it is "GBA playing device", not an emulator.

Holy sheet this is daft.

First, the SLOT 2 is not there for memory when running GBA games on DS - they literally write a game on whatever Slot 2 device, making the device think it is actual GBA game, and booting it

iPlayer is a VIDEO player - reason why it CAN do stuff it can is because the freaking FLASHCART ITSELF includes TWO processors (and memory?) to run software it runs, also having open developement for that... it means there is 4CPU's to use... and the ones inside iPlayer are 4 times the speed of normal DS processor.

THAT is why you need iPlayer, none of other flashcarts do not kinda have extra CPU's packed inside them.

 

[KevinJRussell]

I don't know what you are saying, but there is already a GBA emulator on the DSi. It not only can be done, but has been done.

Show me that "GBA emulator", please
Don't tell me its the iPlayer, because as i mentioned before, its impossible to emulate GBA from flash card like Acekard, R4 or elses, because they don't have the memory that GBA games require. But iPlayer is not an ordinary card, and not a home brew, it is "GBA playing device", not an emulator.

Holy sheet this is daft.

First, the SLOT 2 is not there for memory when running GBA games on DS - they literally write a game on whatever Slot 2 device, making the device think it is actual GBA game, and booting it

iPlayer is a VIDEO player - reason why it CAN do stuff it can is because the freaking FLASHCART ITSELF includes TWO processors (and memory?) to run software it runs, also having open developement for that... it means there is 4CPU's to use... and the ones inside iPlayer are 4 times the speed of normal DS processor.

THAT is why you need iPlayer, none of other flashcarts do not kinda have extra CPU's packed inside them.

Yes, and there has been a GBA emulator written for that cart.

 

[Sumea]

I don't know what you are saying, but there is already a GBA emulator on the DSi. It not only can be done, but has been done.

Show me that "GBA emulator", please
Don't tell me its the iPlayer, because as i mentioned before, its impossible to emulate GBA from flash card like Acekard, R4 or elses, because they don't have the memory that GBA games require. But iPlayer is not an ordinary card, and not a home brew, it is "GBA playing device", not an emulator.

Holy sheet this is daft.

First, the SLOT 2 is not there for memory when running GBA games on DS - they literally write a game on whatever Slot 2 device, making the device think it is actual GBA game, and booting it

iPlayer is a VIDEO player - reason why it CAN do stuff it can is because the freaking FLASHCART ITSELF includes TWO processors (and memory?) to run software it runs, also having open developement for that... it means there is 4CPU's to use... and the ones inside iPlayer are 4 times the speed of normal DS processor.

THAT is why you need iPlayer, none of other flashcarts do not kinda have extra CPU's packed inside them.

Yes, and there has been a GBA emulator written for that cart.

I only broke down the technicalities.
I should also have said that the cart does not use DSi mode, it only acts in DS mode, so everything it does works on DSlite too...
Is supercard DStwo gonna go with same way (CPU's inside the flashcart unit) or is it able to boot possibly in DSi mode?

 

[crazyfffan]

So, please dont just say im stupid, i know it wont be easy, but i mean the dsi has twice as fast CPU as the ordinary nds. so why no?

GBA:
CPU: 16.8 MHz 32-bit ARM7TDMI with embedded memory
Memory: 32 kilobyte + 96 kilobyte VRAM (internal to the CPU), 256 kilobyte WRAM (outside the CPU).

DSi:
# CPU: The DSi has two ARM architecture CPUs; ARM9 and ARM7. The ARM9, the main CPU, is clocked at 133 MHz (almost twice as fast as previous NDS models).
# RAM: 16 MB of RAM (four times as much as previous NDS models)

ppl said that gbc would be impossible to emulate on the gba but we have a fullspeed (almost) gbc emu on the gba =)

so i cant understand why it isnt even worth talking about a gba emu on the dsi / dsi xl?

As Sliv3R said,i think he asked for the homebrew GBA emulator for DSi,not the device like iPlayer. You guys told him that homebrew can not emulate GBA because "800Mhz is the minimum requirement for emulating GBA", but as you can see, the DSL can run GBA game without problem despite of its low processor, so I think the problem is something else

And sorry for my bad English, i started learning it just 11 months ago

QUOTETHAT is why you need iPlayer, none of other flashcarts do not kinda have extra CPU's packed inside them.

I think iplayer's CPUs is for decoding video, its possibility of running GBA is just an extra. If you have an memory expansion pack (like EZ 3in1) for NDSL, every flash card can run GBA rom directly. As i know the EZ 3 in 1 doesn't have any processor.

None of other cards can run GBA rom because a lack of memory, not a lack of processor.

Its my thinking, if i was wrong, please teach me.
?????????????

 

[SgtThom]

So, please dont just say im stupid, i know it wont be easy, but i mean the dsi has twice as fast CPU as the ordinary nds. so why no?

GBA:
CPU: 16.8 MHz 32-bit ARM7TDMI with embedded memory
Memory: 32 kilobyte + 96 kilobyte VRAM (internal to the CPU), 256 kilobyte WRAM (outside the CPU).

DSi:
# CPU: The DSi has two ARM architecture CPUs; ARM9 and ARM7. The ARM9, the main CPU, is clocked at 133 MHz (almost twice as fast as previous NDS models).
# RAM: 16 MB of RAM (four times as much as previous NDS models)

ppl said that gbc would be impossible to emulate on the gba but we have a fullspeed (almost) gbc emu on the gba =)

so i cant understand why it isnt even worth talking about a gba emu on the dsi / dsi xl?

As Sliv3R said,i think he asked for the homebrew GBA emulator for DSi,not the device like iPlayer. You guys told him that homebrew can not emulate GBA because "800Mhz is the minimum requirement for emulating GBA", but as you can see, the DSL can run GBA game without problem despite of its low processor, so I think the problem is something else

And sorry for my bad English, i started learning it just 11 months ago

QUOTETHAT is why you need iPlayer, none of other flashcarts do not kinda have extra CPU's packed inside them.

I think iplayer's CPUs is for decoding video, its possibility of running GBA is just an extra. If you have an memory expansion pack (like EZ 3in1) for NDSL, every flash card can run GBA rom directly. As i know the EZ 3 in 1 doesn't have any processor.

None of other cards can run GBA rom because a lack of memory, not a lack of processor.

Its my thinking, if i was wrong, please teach me.
?????????????

The Ds have built in hardware for GBA games.It's just you can't run them on slot 1 devices.

 

[Chaosruler]

don`t say its impossible, I believe its possible, but it would need to... how to say it?
recreate GBA mode from a scartch and then make a GUI for it so people will be able to use it without memorizing commands like /save or so, since its too hard for them
but my real reason to post this message is...
DSi got 133 MHz processor speed, indeed, but it is still the same type of CPU, it just upgraded version of the original, its not some MIPS OMAP3 new OMFGZ THIS IS THE ARCHOS 5! cpu, its nearly twice better then the original DSL cpu (which isn`t much really), while the second ARM 7 CPU is the same version with a similar limitations that is meant for the WiFi connectivity, Touch screen and I believe the Guitar Hero Grip on the DSL\phat uses it too (though I am not sure)
now you might think that power is all what we need to emulate the gba, but the one to actually make an GBA emulator needs to either know both of the GBA or its documents pretty well and the DS or its documents pretty well, the one who created an emulator to the DSi used a similar CPU power to the PSP (400 MHz MIPS) and simply ran the GBA emulator that was created within year or two to the PSP, who is much more powerfull then the DS, and compared to our "hack", the PSP's hack allows to use different operation system rather then opening an operation system on an operation system (opening the DS OS first which opens the DS cartiage which got the OS files) which gives much more options, since all its modes are "hacked" and "allowed to be accessed" unlike DSi mode, which is still not hacked, I bet that the DSi mode is hackable (everything is hackable, but you know what I mean, its not a PS3) but theres no reason to hack it, why? the new processor will only improve the emulation speed done so far, it won`t open a new one, now to compare the numbers you given to the ones you`d understand more...
I hold a cellphone model Nokia 6120C, it costs nearly as much as the DSL does (at least in Israel), and its CPU is ARM13 CORTEX 166 MHz and 32 MB ram, it can emulate the GBA at 11-14 FPS and I overclocked it [cell phones minifans really do their job!] to 240 MHz, and it gets to 20 FPS, I have no idea how the GBA emulator for the symbian language works, however it emulates nearly as well as the PSP models and it has lower "power", how does it do that?
CPU's and GPU's and RAM can`t be measured with their amount or speed, if it was meant for emulating, it will emulate, if it was meant to games, it will play games, if it was meant for documents and office work, it will do that, the reason why CPU's and GPU's and RAM's can do all three of those stuff is because we are in an advanced world, with a high-end technology, the fact it does all that is good but it still means it does what its meant to do better then everything, sadly Nokia is having many gadgets in their junkphones, and they can`t code different engines for all their junkies, they pay other people to create an engine (Bluetooth company coming with Blueshell, and the camera "Cybershoot minizure" having its own engine which I don`t know about, Opera browser, File browser, Real player, all those options are simply "part" of the operation system) however thos parts aren`t really created by Nokia, Nokia is using emulating as their key to use them all at once in one cellphone, therefore my cellphone CPU was meant for emulating, and it does it well, the DS CPU however was meant for games, the structure, build and memory are built differently, acting differently and provide different outcomes, hence why certein GPU's with 64 MHz's are running games better then some 512 MHz's GPU's (like Nvidia Geforce 74 and Nvidia Geforce 88, one was meant for games and one was meant for work, but both of them can do both, only one does one thing really well and the other does the other thing really well)
if you want the purest example of it, try to run Lego Racers on GPU's\graphic cards that are meant for graphical work and edit, see how messy it will become on certein levels where the CPU barely understands whats to do as its sole purpose is open extreme high graphic editing softwares that you are not able to start

 

[Sumea]

Posting to say:

The hardware difference comes in when word "Emulation" is thrown in.

There is difference when hardware runs code made for it, and when it is given code it cannot run Unless emulated.

(I am not going now also structural differences of CPU's - just saying that there is fact that 133mhz NDS CPU may not actually be as powerful as 133cellphone cpu etc - structure wise)


Native code is easy to run - when it is made for the hardware - Why GBA runs GBA games? THEY ARE MADE for it (And do not need 800mhz)

Why they run on DSlite - Slot 2 what also boots them in native running code enviorement

why DSi cannot do that?
There IS NO slot 2, nor Native code area to force it. Therefire, no slot 2 (the native media) there is no ability for Native running.

and WHEN you get to word "emulate" you are talking of program, calculating and processing and translating the code for platform it was not meant to run on, in REAL TIME, It is not comparable to the way how the native one does it...

So, native hardware vs. emulator difference in nutshell.

 

[crazyfffan]

Posting to say:

The hardware difference comes in when word "Emulation" is thrown in.

There is difference when hardware runs code made for it, and when it is given code it cannot run Unless emulated.

(I am not going now also structural differences of CPU's - just saying that there is fact that 133mhz NDS CPU may not actually be as powerful as 133cellphone cpu etc - structure wise)


Native code is easy to run - when it is made for the hardware - Why GBA runs GBA games? THEY ARE MADE for it (And do not need 800mhz)

Why they run on DSlite - Slot 2 what also boots them in native running code enviorement

why DSi cannot do that?
There IS NO slot 2, nor Native code area to force it. Therefire, no slot 2 (the native media) there is no ability for Native running.

and WHEN you get to word "emulate" you are talking of program, calculating and processing and translating the code for platform it was not meant to run on, in REAL TIME, It is not comparable to the way how the native one does it...

So, native hardware vs. emulator difference in nutshell.

OK, got it. Thanks for explaining. So the point is there's GBA hardware inside a DSL.
Say, you need 800MHz of PC to emulate GBA which only has 16MHz CPU, but Intel/AMD and GBA's CPU is completely different from each other, but DSi and GBA both have ARM CPUs, I belevie those CPUs definately have similar architectures (if not, they should have had different names,right), so how much power is necessary to emulate ARM7-CPU on ARM 9-CPU?

 

[piemastr]

sorry to revive an old topic, but the igpsp for the ipods (the ones that are in color at least) that can run ipodlinux can run some games at 50-80% speed. I have also seen that those ipod processors are ARM 7TDMI CPUs, running at a peak of 80 MHz. The emulator pushes it to the highest, so it cannot go any higher than 80 Mhz or else it wont be stable anymore. My question is what is keeping the dsi to emulate the gba. I believe it should be able to done, but with a lot of optimization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipod#Hardware
http://ipl.derpapst.eu/wiki/Igpsp