Hacking Finally! No more WBFS drive, partition and managers

[FenrirWolf]

Backup loaders ignore disc updates, so it's quite safe.

 

[EnioMarcos]

I think discussing which is the better file-system is a moot point in our usage context. FAT has been around over 30 years, its specifications are well documented and understood by developers. Again its ideal here because all major OS supports it, allowing easy data exchange. Plug in a FAT drive into any Mac/Linux/Win it'll just work and you are free to use any of the countless tools available to manage it.

On the other hand WBFS is a very new filesystem created to solve the problem of getting game loading from a USB drive. There is no clear specification or documentation, no one has a solid understanding of it. Developers create and abandon their WBFS manager projects. Users lose games from data corruption that no tools can fix because there are none! WBFS partition is unsupported and to rely on it is like beta-testing it but with real game data. We should move away from it asap to avoid future grief.

Perfect explanation!

That's why I think FAT32 is the best choice right now.

 

[pedrohell]

Backup loaders ignore disc updates, so it's quite safe.

Thanks.
Putting the game on the HDD.

 

[Deleted-171178]

Yes it is safe.

 

[AllWiidUp]

3. if i already have a wbfs drive with 150 games on it, what are the advantages of changing?

For one, if you delete a game other than the last one installed on a wbfs partition you lose that space unless you move them all to another drive and then back again. Whereas using fat32 you can simply defrag the partition, consolidate free space, etc,...

4. will sites now start having files as .wbfs so we wont have to convert them?

piracy talk is not allowed here

Where did you get this information? I've noticed this whole thread is dependent on misinformation, by people who don't know.

before the fix that went into 1.4 or was it 1.5 ( in the loader only ) you only lost a block on delete, unless you used the one mod, which marked it deleted and didn't reclaim space until later. wbfs is enitrely better than fat, unless you are unable to use a wbfs manager or the loader itself ( as in not a pirate ).

So you're telling me for instance that if I have a 500GB wbfs formatted drive filled with games and no more room to install more, that I can delete 50 games I no longer want, at random places on the partition, and that I can then safely install 50 new ones to the drive with absolutely no issues to the newly installed games - or to the ones already on the drive?

the only issue you would have could be free space, which would happen on any filesystem. every game is a different size. if you uninstalled 10GB of games, you could install 10GB of games.
Fat drives have fragmentation issues, because the block size and the file sizes are different, in WBFS this is never an issue, because the block sizes are a multiple of the dvd sectors sizes. So you free a block holding 4 dvd sectors, you can write back 4 dvd sectors. With fat the same will not normally be true.

 

[AllWiidUp]

So you're telling me for instance that if I have a 500GB wbfs formatted drive filled with games and no more room to install more, that I can delete 50 games I no longer want, at random places on the partition, and that I can then safely install 50 new ones to the drive with absolutely no issues to the newly installed games - or to the ones already on the drive?

surely the only problem is a tiny amount of fragmentation if the games were different sized. Since you are unlikely to be in such an extreme situation of having what 300 games and no space, for instance i have 150 games and 100 gig of space, so deleting files will free up space without real problems of fragmentation, surely?

I guess the entire point I was trying to make wasn't in regards to fragmentation, but rather in the inability to consolidate free space on a wbfs partition without transferring everything to a different drive and back again. I've read a lot of instances where deleting a game and then installing another has caused both minor and sever issues.

Plain and simple though... deleting files on a wbfs partition WILL cause you to lose space. Unless of course you find games that exactly match the size of the deleted ones to install in their place - while using FAT32 allows you to consolidate the space after deleting.

I thought this was only an issue in the older versions of the wbfs file system where library was deleting the wrong bits in the table so deleting games caused it to lose track of where things really were.

You are correct, for the versions without the sorg mod, I think it was. The free list had an off by 1 error, caused the first block to not be freed and the last +1 to be marked free, which cause the next install to corrupt the game following the freed game and waste 1 block. My fix, fixed the off by one and the free list was correct and games weren't corrupted.

 

[Skizzo]

Skizzo.... take a fucking chill pill dude. No need to be such a dick face about shit. Besides the fact that you don't know wtf you're talking about.

If I have a 2 GB usb drive and install 4 games on it with each being 500 MB and maxing out the entire drive, delete the 2 in the middle freeing up 1 GB of space, then install a new game with a size of .9 GB leaving 100MB left over and want to install another game but can't find one that's 100 MB or less... what happens? You basically lose that space since nothing can be done with it. Now, if your brain can handle it - take the same example and apply it to a 500 GB drive with 300 games on it and then delete 100 or more of them in random places on the partition. You're still telling me that only a couple of blocks will be lost?

And in case you still can't understand - it should be quite obvious that I don't mean a person actually loses space. I mean the space CAN become unusable and useless unless that free space is consolidated. I've had the "Not enough free space" message more than once when there was quite obviously plenty of space, it just wasn't all in one location that was large enough to do the install.

Once again, you're talking out of your ass. Earlier you said your point had nothing to do with fragmentation, yet your entire premise here is based completely on the concept of fragmentation (or the lack thereof). Go back and read what I fucking said. And then perhaps try refuting that instead of your straw men. Tell me what the difference would be with your first example on the 2GB drive using FAT32 or WBFS. NONE. WTF do you think you could do in that situation differently depending on the file system being used? NOTHING. If you can't find a game to fit into 100MB remaining on a 2GB drive, it isn't going to matter what FS the drive is using, is it? Yet here you are using that as the basis for your argument? LOL.

Now how in the fuck do you go from that example, which is discussing unusable space based upon the size of games available to fit within it, to your next example arguing about blocks lost? They're completley unrelated. My comment regarding blocks lost was per game, since most games don't divide evenly into the block size being used on the partition. And the same can be said of games stored on FAT32.

And since you were arguing about WBFS, YES, you ARE saying that the person actually loses space, for all intents and purposes, becaues there are NO tools to 'defrag' or 'consolidate' free space on a WBFS partition. I think most people are well aware that moving the games off and then back onto a freshly formatted drive would do that.

 

[AllWiidUp]

Skizzo.... take a fucking chill pill dude. No need to be such a dick face about shit. Besides the fact that you don't know wtf you're talking about.

If I have a 2 GB usb drive and install 4 games on it with each being 500 MB and maxing out the entire drive, delete the 2 in the middle freeing up 1 GB of space, then install a new game with a size of .9 GB leaving 100MB left over and want to install another game but can't find one that's 100 MB or less... what happens? You basically lose that space since nothing can be done with it. Now, if your brain can handle it - take the same example and apply it to a 500 GB drive with 300 games on it and then delete 100 or more of them in random places on the partition. You're still telling me that only a couple of blocks will be lost?

And in case you still can't understand - it should be quite obvious that I don't mean a person actually loses space. I mean the space CAN become unusable and useless unless that free space is consolidated. I've had the "Not enough free space" message more than once when there was quite obviously plenty of space, it just wasn't all in one location that was large enough to do the install.

ok, you don't understand much either, wbfs handles this situation without issue, infact fat32 with .wbfs files would have more of an issue. I mean WOW, you are so clueless, and yet trying to call others clueless. please read, learn and then share, because you are so lost.

In fact you just made the best argument for WBFS over fat32.

 

[AllWiidUp]

FYI, FAT is a internationally recognized standard - you can find it published as ISO/IEC 9293 and ECMA-107 standards.

There is no perfect files system, but FAT is such a universal file-system, its used everywhere, in mp3 players, ipods even in Wii NAND, supported by all OS from Mac to Linux, there is no dispute - FAT is de-facto perfect for removable storage.

So given a choice between WBFS or FAT partition, you will naturally choose FAT to store your games.

WBFS as a partition will fade away like the telegram, in just a few months.

I guess if you are already stealing games, then stealing unlicensed FAT32 filesystem from microsoft is fine. All devices, using fat32 are supposed to license it, yet another reason to avoid it.

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platf...are/fatgen.mspx

http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embe...how/39844-1.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table

anyone not being a pirate, would likely stay away from FAT.

 

[AllWiidUp]

I think discussing which is the better file-system is a moot point in our usage context. FAT has been around over 30 years, its specifications are well documented and understood by developers. Again its ideal here because all major OS supports it, allowing easy data exchange. Plug in a FAT drive into any Mac/Linux/Win it'll just work and you are free to use any of the countless tools available to manage it.

On the other hand WBFS is a very new filesystem created to solve the problem of getting game loading from a USB drive. There is no clear specification or documentation, no one has a solid understanding of it. Developers create and abandon their WBFS manager projects. Users lose games from data corruption that no tools can fix because there are none! WBFS partition is unsupported and to rely on it is like beta-testing it but with real game data. We should move away from it asap to avoid future grief.

that a very self serving observation, coming from the person pushing fat32 system, again using misinformation to make an point that doesn't exist.

 

[cwstjdenobs]

FYI, FAT is a internationally recognized standard - you can find it published as ISO/IEC 9293 and ECMA-107 standards.

There is no perfect files system, but FAT is such a universal file-system, its used everywhere, in mp3 players, ipods even in Wii NAND, supported by all OS from Mac to Linux, there is no dispute - FAT is de-facto perfect for removable storage.

So given a choice between WBFS or FAT partition, you will naturally choose FAT to store your games.

WBFS as a partition will fade away like the telegram, in just a few months.

I guess if you are already stealing games, then stealing unlicensed FAT32 filesystem from microsoft is fine. All devices, using fat32 are supposed to license it, yet another reason to avoid it.

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platf...are/fatgen.mspx

http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embe...how/39844-1.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table

anyone not being a pirate, would likely stay away from FAT.

Erm sorry but backwards engineering isn't illegal, how else do you think OSS can support NTFS, HFS, vFAT etc... and software patents are only an issue if your country has f$£ked up IP laws.

Edit: Sorry that should have being seriously badly f*%ked up IP laws

 

[FenrirWolf]

This is getting pretty ridiculous. XD

 

[ocdetective]

This is getting pretty ridiculous. XD

Reminiscent of GEN v M33, AMD v Intel, PS2 v Xbox etc, flame wars lol

 

[AllWiidUp]

FYI, FAT is a internationally recognized standard - you can find it published as ISO/IEC 9293 and ECMA-107 standards.

There is no perfect files system, but FAT is such a universal file-system, its used everywhere, in mp3 players, ipods even in Wii NAND, supported by all OS from Mac to Linux, there is no dispute - FAT is de-facto perfect for removable storage.

So given a choice between WBFS or FAT partition, you will naturally choose FAT to store your games.

WBFS as a partition will fade away like the telegram, in just a few months.

I guess if you are already stealing games, then stealing unlicensed FAT32 filesystem from microsoft is fine. All devices, using fat32 are supposed to license it, yet another reason to avoid it.

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platf...are/fatgen.mspx

http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embe...how/39844-1.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table

anyone not being a pirate, would likely stay away from FAT.

Erm sorry but backwards engineering isn't illegal, how else do you think OSS can support NTFS, HFS, vFAT etc... and software patents are only an issue if your country has f$£ked up IP laws.

Edit: Sorry that should have being seriously badly f*%ked up IP laws

I'm highly doubting they reversed anything, and while I agree software patents are stupid, you are comparing apples to oranges. NTFS is not patented, its a trade sceret, so reversing is possible to make a work alike product. fat32 is published and patented, therefore reversing doesn't apply.

 

[D34DL1N3R]

And since you were arguing about WBFS, YES, you ARE saying that the person actually loses space, for all intents and purposes, becaues there are NO tools to 'defrag' or 'consolidate' free space on a WBFS partition. I think most people are well aware that moving the games off and then back onto a freshly formatted drive would do that.

No shit retard!!! Exactly my point. With Fat32 a person can consolidate that space withOUT having to move them all off and back on again! Christ you are st00pid!


QUOTE(AllWiidUp @ Nov 4 2009, 08:15 PM) ok, you don't understand much either, wbfs handles this situation without issue, infact fat32 with .wbfs files would have more of an issue. I mean WOW, you are so clueless, and yet trying to call others clueless. please read, learn and then share, because you are so lost.

In fact you just made the best argument for WBFS over fat32.

You're about as brilliant as Skizzo. Grow at least HALF a brain to replace that reeking gob of ass spooge you have in your head.

 

[cwstjdenobs]

I'm highly doubting they reversed anything, and while I agree software patents are stupid, you are comparing apples to oranges. NTFS is not patented, its a trade sceret, so reversing is possible to make a work alike product. fat32 is published and patented, therefore reversing doesn't apply.

I didn't say NTFS was patented numbnuts. I gave a list of FSs which have been backwards engineered and used by OSS projects. And yes I doubt oggzee backward enginered anything, but you're basicaly accusing whoever wrote libfat and whatever fat drivers it was based on of steeling from MS!!! Why don't you go to the devkit forum, the linux kernel mailing list, NTFS-3Gs mailing list etc and let them know about your in depth knowledge of how these things work and that, accordong to you, they are thieves.

 

[oggzee]

There's a mac executable in the wbfs_file download.

sorry mate and thank you, i never saw that.
i downloaded the file and it doesnt work though, i get

Last login: Mon Nov 2 22:22:25 on ttys000
wardrobes-power-mac-g4:~ j$ /Users/j/Downloads/wbfs_file_1.3/mac_osx/wbfs_file ; exit;
wbfs_file 1.2 by oggzee, based on wbfs by kwiirk

Usage: wbfs_file [OPTIONS] [COMMAND [ARGS]]:

Given just a filename it will convert from iso to wbfs or vice versa:

wbfs_file filename.iso
Will convert filename.iso to GAMEID.wbfs
And create an info file GAMEID_TITLE.txt

wbfs_file filename.wbfs
Will convert filename.wbfs to GAMEID_TITLE.iso

Use -h for help on commands and options
logout

[Process completed]
its logged out automatically so i cant use any commands. Anyone else tried it? Could it be because im on a ppc mac?
thanks anyone and again apologies and thanks fenrirwolf

Since it printed out the usage help, it means the executable works just fine.
But it is not interactive, you can't just click on the wbfs_file executable.
It is a command line app, so you have to open a Terminal first and run it from there.
That means, typing the command (probably with the full path) and giving it a iso file as a parameter.
It has been tested by me and other people and is reported to work fine.
Like this:
wardrobes-power-mac-g4:~ j$ /Users/j/Downloads/wbfs_file_1.3/mac_osx/wbfs_file /Users/j/Downloads/WiiPlay.iso

But you have to open a terminal first, so that you get just to the prompt:
wardrobes-power-mac-g4:~ j$

where you can type these commands.

It's a pity the finder doesn't let you drag and drop files over executables the way windows does...

 

[madeirabhoy]

There's a mac executable in the wbfs_file download.

sorry mate and thank you, i never saw that.
i downloaded the file and it doesnt work though, i get

Last login: Mon Nov 2 22:22:25 on ttys000
wardrobes-power-mac-g4:~ j$ /Users/j/Downloads/wbfs_file_1.3/mac_osx/wbfs_file ; exit;
wbfs_file 1.2 by oggzee, based on wbfs by kwiirk

Usage: wbfs_file [OPTIONS] [COMMAND [ARGS]]:

Given just a filename it will convert from iso to wbfs or vice versa:

wbfs_file filename.iso
Will convert filename.iso to GAMEID.wbfs
And create an info file GAMEID_TITLE.txt

wbfs_file filename.wbfs
Will convert filename.wbfs to GAMEID_TITLE.iso

Use -h for help on commands and options
logout

[Process completed]
its logged out automatically so i cant use any commands. Anyone else tried it? Could it be because im on a ppc mac?
thanks anyone and again apologies and thanks fenrirwolf

Since it printed out the usage help, it means the executable works just fine.
But it is not interactive, you can't just click on the wbfs_file executable.
It is a command line app, so you have to open a Terminal first and run it from there.
That means, typing the command (probably with the full path) and giving it a iso file as a parameter.
It has been tested by me and other people and is reported to work fine.
Like this:
wardrobes-power-mac-g4:~ j$ /Users/j/Downloads/wbfs_file_1.3/mac_osx/wbfs_file /Users/j/Downloads/WiiPlay.iso

But you have to open a terminal first, so that you get just to the prompt:
wardrobes-power-mac-g4:~ j$

where you can type these commands.

It's a pity the finder doesn't let you drag and drop files over executables the way windows does...

ah, so the terminal window that opens with the usage commands is just like a help window? So i should open that first, leave it open, open another terminal window and type the commands into that?

Ill try it tonight when i get in. Its not how other mac osx terminal apps have worked for me in the past, normally clicking on the file opens a window which explains whats happening and then you type the commands or whatever into that.


thanks oggzee

 

[AllWiidUp]

I'm highly doubting they reversed anything, and while I agree software patents are stupid, you are comparing apples to oranges. NTFS is not patented, its a trade sceret, so reversing is possible to make a work alike product. fat32 is published and patented, therefore reversing doesn't apply.

I didn't say NTFS was patented numbnuts. I gave a list of FSs which have been backwards engineered and used by OSS projects. And yes I doubt oggzee backward enginered anything, but you're basicaly accusing whoever wrote libfat and whatever fat drivers it was based on of steeling from MS!!! Why don't you go to the devkit forum, the linux kernel mailing list, NTFS-3Gs mailing list etc and let them know about your in depth knowledge of how these things work and that, accordong to you, they are thieves.

name calling, wow, the 2 year old defense... you and the other are obviously here to troll and I'm tired of feeding you. I know what I'm talking about, anyone who can program does as well, you just want to call people names to say you're right.

 

[Skizzo]

And since you were arguing about WBFS, YES, you ARE saying that the person actually loses space, for all intents and purposes, becaues there are NO tools to 'defrag' or 'consolidate' free space on a WBFS partition. I think most people are well aware that moving the games off and then back onto a freshly formatted drive would do that.

No shit retard!!! Exactly my point. With Fat32 a person can consolidate that space withOUT having to move them all off and back on again! Christ you are st00pid!

ok, you don't understand much either, wbfs handles this situation without issue, infact fat32 with .wbfs files would have more of an issue. I mean WOW, you are so clueless, and yet trying to call others clueless. please read, learn and then share, because you are so lost.

In fact you just made the best argument for WBFS over fat32.

You're about as brilliant as Skizzo. Grow at least HALF a brain to replace that reeking gob of ass spooge you have in your head.

LOL. Listen 'retard'. Your whole argument is centered around the notion that WBFS WILL NOT FRAGMENT A GAME WHEN ADDING IT. THAT IS COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLSHIT. Clear? You've stated that misinformation several times, yet not once have you actually demonstrated it with concrete data. Just your questionable anecdotes. So here, if you can wrap your 'retard' brain around this, perhaps you'll STFU once and for all with regards to spreading misinformation about WBFS. Of course, an apology wouldn't be out of order, but given your level of maturity (the l33t speak in the name pretty much says it all), I won't be holding my breath.

Here's a map of a game on my WBFS partition:

Dump of Wii disc #XXX of XXX:
ÂÂÂÂname:ÂÂ We Rock: Drum King
ÂÂÂÂtitle:ÂÂWe Rock: Drum King
ÂÂÂÂid6:ÂÂÂÂRUKPGT
ÂÂÂÂregion: PAL [PAL ]
ÂÂÂÂsize:ÂÂ 1712 MiB

ÂÂÂÂWii disc memory mapping:

ÂÂÂÂÂÂwii disc blocks :ÂÂwbfs blocks :ÂÂÂÂÂÂdisc offset range :ÂÂÂÂ size
ÂÂÂÂ --------------------------------------------------------------------
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 0 ..ÂÂ 200 :ÂÂÂÂ a401ÂÂÂÂ :ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 0 ..ÂÂ 1000000 :ÂÂ1000000
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ1e00 ..ÂÂ2000 :ÂÂÂÂ a402ÂÂÂÂ :ÂÂ f000000 ..ÂÂ10000000 :ÂÂ1000000
ÂÂÂÂÂÂ 15e00 .. 23000 : a403 .. a46b :ÂÂaf000000 .. 118000000 : 69000000

See, all the game blocks are contiguous, i.e. not fragmented. Blocks a401-a46b.

Here's a map of the last game on the same partition:
CODEDump of Wii disc #XXX of XXX:
ÂÂÂÂname:ÂÂ LEGO Rock Band
ÂÂÂÂid6:ÂÂÂÂR6LEWR
ÂÂÂÂregion: NTSC [NTSC]
ÂÂÂÂsize:ÂÂ 3776 MiB

ÂÂÂÂWii disc memory mapping:

ÂÂÂÂÂÂwii disc blocks :ÂÂwbfs blocks :ÂÂÂÂÂÂdisc offset range :ÂÂÂÂ size
ÂÂÂÂ --------------------------------------------------------------------
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 0 ..ÂÂ 200 :ÂÂÂÂ b57cÂÂÂÂ :ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 0 ..ÂÂ 1000000 :ÂÂ1000000
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ1e00 ..ÂÂ2000 :ÂÂÂÂ b57dÂÂÂÂ :ÂÂ f000000 ..ÂÂ10000000 :ÂÂ1000000
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ5c00 .. 23000 : b57e .. b667 :ÂÂ2e000000 .. 118000000 : ea000000

Again, this game is not fragmented, and the last block used on the partition is b667.

After gathering that information, I deleted the first game mapped above, RUKPGT, and then installed a game larger than the 1712MiB it occupied. According to your misinformation, the game would have to be installed at the end of the partition, after the last game listed above, thus occupying blocks b668 and up. But guess what 'retard'? Here's the map for that game and would you look at that...YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT.
CODE

Dump of Wii disc #XXX of XXX:
ÂÂÂÂname:ÂÂ Call of Duty Modern Warfare Reflex
ÂÂÂÂid6:ÂÂÂÂRJAP52
ÂÂÂÂregion: PAL [PAL ]
ÂÂÂÂsize:ÂÂ 3888 MiB

ÂÂÂÂWii disc memory mapping:

ÂÂÂÂÂÂwii disc blocks :ÂÂwbfs blocks :ÂÂÂÂÂÂdisc offset range :ÂÂÂÂ size
ÂÂÂÂ --------------------------------------------------------------------
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 0 ..ÂÂ 200 :ÂÂÂÂ a401ÂÂÂÂ :ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 0 ..ÂÂ 1000000 :ÂÂ1000000
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ1e00 ..ÂÂf200 : a402 .. a46b :ÂÂ f000000 ..ÂÂ79000000 : 6a000000
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂf200 .. 20200 : b668 .. b6ef :ÂÂ79000000 .. 101000000 : 88000000

As you can see, the newly added game is 3888MiB and it first FILLS UP THAT ALLEGEDLY (ACCORDING TO YOU AT LEAST), UNUSABLE, WASTED SPACE (blocks a401-a46b) and then places the remaining fragment of the game at the end, filling up blocks b668-b6ef.

To summarize, you're full of shit and are the only 'retard' around here. Next time get a fucking clue before you start with the insults, lest you're made to eat crow, again.