FBI busts neo-Nazi for CP, grooming and exploiting children

[RAHelllord]

That's a departure from the previous claim. I'd like to be optimistic, but I'd have to take your word for it. The issue has been increasing in intensity regarding attention, but I haven't seen evidence that it's "going down over all", or the installation of a particular mechanism that would lead me to believe so.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/639375/number-of-child-abuse-cases-in-the-us/

Educating kids doesn't address the issue of correcting the behaviors of predators and exploiters--> unless you are going for a longterm solution where you can dissuade children from growing up to become abusers.

Educating kids directly prevents child abuse as they can seek help before they have been abused. This works by allowing them to identify when adults try to groom them or by simply recognizing potential danger ahead of time. And considering often the perpetrators are close relatives having it being taught standardized in school means they also have a way to identify and report abuse at home.

I already pointed out the demoralizing trend of Hollywood and American media exploiting children for entertainment. If you think that's a non-issue, please say so. Maybe you are right and that kind of abuse was always legal.

Child actors in Hollywood aren't inherently being abused, after a certain age kids can cry on command likely literally any other actor, and considering "child" is anyone under 18 that very much includes teenagers. With things like the recent strikes and the #metoo movements there's also greater awareness and ability to speak up and ensure kids are treated well on set. It hasn't been the 80's in a while where kids were exposed to asbestos on sets.

This insinuation of consensual child-pregnancies is pretty loud there.

Are you actually, for real, unaware that teenagers have sex with each other and can get pregnant from that? There is an entire litany of Romeo and Juliet laws on the books specifically to deal with horny teenagers getting down with each other.
You might want to look into a mirror why your mind immediately went to statutory rape not being a thing.

Yes. It's a two party system. The results are perpetually getting worse. Neither party is able to be effective. That's kind of my point. Are you proposing that the "final" solution is to make it a one party system of democrats? I think it is more likely that people will elect a fourth Reich than to re-elect the third one. I'd like to see decentralized (and more importantly, verifiable) consensus seeking measures, myself. Pitting child rapists against child groomers, and asking voters to choose between the two is post-Trump insanity. Electing Trump was already proof of insanity, but you want to keep pushing it. How long before you are teaching children about the virtues of being a furry?

It is absolutely fascinating how you're still riding the train that both parties are equally bad and that both parties somehow share the same level of responsibility for the current state of the US. Again, maybe actually read up on who proposes what laws and what party votes for them or against them.
Democrats repeatedly and constantly try to slowly improve things for everyone in the US while the Republicans sabotage things.
Again, abortion is a great example, holding the budget hostage is another, Democrats wanting to end healthcare care insurance scam plus student debt crisis, and so many more.
No, I'm not for a "final solution" like you people seem to be, I just would certainly like that the NSDAP-lite is replaced with a party that actually cares about more than just gaining power and creating a theocratic dictatorship on the back of the strongest military on the planet.

If you are interested in citing something, other than just headlines, be my guest.

https://www.congress.gov/roll-call-votes

 

[tabzer]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/639375/number-of-child-abuse-cases-in-the-us/

Ok. That's cool. You are showing how the stats changed after Trump was elected to support your thesis. Fluctuations are nice and all, but we are in year 2023. I'd like you to convince me that it's a trend. I want to believe.

Educating kids directly prevents child abuse as they can seek help before they have been abused. This works by allowing them to identify when adults try to groom them or by simply recognizing potential danger ahead of time. And considering often the perpetrators are close relatives having it being taught standardized in school means they also have a way to identify and report abuse at home.

You want to put it on kids to prevent child abuse.

Child actors in Hollywood aren't inherently being abused,

Filming babies crying in game of thrones is, inherently, child abuse. Honey Booboo is child abuse. Ramsey is child abuse. Tots and tiaras is child abuse.

after a certain age kids can cry on command likely literally any other actor, and considering "child" is anyone under 18 that very much includes teenagers. With things like the recent strikes and the #metoo movements there's also greater awareness and ability to speak up and ensure kids are treated well on set. It hasn't been the 80's in a while where kids were exposed to asbestos on sets.

Yep, you think kids are "mature enough". Hollywood is trash, and if you are a fan, then that besets me in my disagreement with you.

Are you actually, for real, unaware that teenagers have sex with each other and can get pregnant from that? There is an entire litany of Romeo and Juliet laws on the books specifically to deal with horny teenagers getting down with each other.
You might want to look into a mirror why your mind immediately went to statutory rape not being a thing.

We are talking about 10 year-olds.

It is absolutely fascinating how you're still riding the train that both parties are equally bad and that both parties somehow share the same level of responsibility for the current state of the US. Again, maybe actually read up on who proposes what laws and what party votes for them or against them.

I never ever said that both parties are equally bad. You keep wanting to make that my point. I thought I was pretty clear that both sides aren't doing anything to effectively address the issue.

Democrats repeatedly and constantly try to slowly improve things for everyone in the US while the Republicans sabotage things.
Again, abortion is a great example, holding the budget hostage is another, Democrats wanting to end healthcare care insurance scam plus student debt crisis, and so many more.

Yay! Platitudes.

No, I'm not for a "final solution" like you people seem to be, I just would certainly like that the NSDAP-lite is replaced with a party that actually cares about more than just gaining power and creating a theocratic dictatorship on the back of the strongest military on the planet.

"You people". Is that anyone who disagrees with you? I have no reason to believe that you know how to prevent another Nazi uprising. I don't even know if you are afraid of Nazis.

https://www.congress.gov/roll-call-votes

People voted. Nothing happened. Excuse my cynicism.

 

[supermist]

You might want to look into a mirror why your mind immediately went to statutory rape not being a thing

Oooh, the callout!

 

[Marc_LFD]

FBI doing something useful for once.

 

[RAHelllord]

Ok. That's cool. You are showing how the stats changed after Trump was elected to support your thesis. Fluctuations are nice and all, but we are in year 2023. I'd like you to convince me that it's a trend. I want to believe.

Thanks to him being a great bad example, yes. Also surprise surprise 2023 isn't over yet so obviously there aren't official statistics yet.
This should be obvious.
Of course if you can travel in the future please share the data now so we don't have to wait.

You want to put it on kids to prevent child abuse.

Kids being able to seek help is putting it on kids to prevent child abuse? Giving potential victims the tools to prevent abuse that generally happens in secret, away from other adults, is bad? You can't be serious?
Of course it's not the only part, but it's crucial and incredibly effective, hence why a lot of confirmed abusers are so heavily against it.

Maybe you should ask yourself why you are sharing a stance with a lot of confirmed child abusers on this topic?

You're also free to suggest better solutions, but so far nobody has found one hence why I stick with the classics that have proven themselves to work.

Filming babies crying in game of thrones is, inherently, child abuse. Honey Booboo is child abuse. Ramsey is child abuse. Tots and tiaras is child abuse.

Getting babies to cry doesn't involve child abuse, unless you think taking a toy away from them or handing them over from the mother to an actor is abuse.
No idea what Ramsey is, the other two I agree with, but also pretty sure half of those weren't made by Hollywood Entertainment so I'm not sure how standards increasing slowly is relevant here.

Yep, you think kids are "mature enough". Hollywood is trash, and if you are a fan, then that besets me in my disagreement with you.

Acting by itself is not child abuse, did you grow up in a prison or something? Are you not aware that plenty of people can cry on command, will do so for various reasons, and also that kid's plays exist?
Hell I've participated in a little theater play group in kindergarten and it was good fun for everyone involved.
Plenty of ethical examples exist where the kids are on set for a few hours at most every week, accompanied by parents or similar, and have frequent breaks.

Also I haven't watched anything made in Hollywood for over 15 years, the only thing I am interested in is workers rights and similar issues coming out of there, and those have improved and are continuing to improve slowly. Plus most of the abuse in there is from the executive level, and they're largely open gop supporters.
Funny how it always circles back around to that party when it comes to abuse.

We are talking about 10 year-olds.

We weren't, "child" is defined as any person under the age of 18.
That said, that's still technically possible and has happened in the past with early bloomers. If so neither of the kids should go to jail or commit a crime, and legal abortions should be a possibility considering it's a serious health risk at that age.
And lo' and behold the GOP passed laws in multiple states that abortions for 11 year olds aren't legal so they have to travel out of state to a Democrat led one.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alison...girl-who-was-denied-abortion/?sh=e05d88f4e6e1

I never ever said that both parties are equally bad. You keep wanting to make that my point. I thought I was pretty clear that both sides aren't doing anything to effectively address the issue.

You quite literally equate both of them to be bad despite one trying to improve things and the other making things worse. You do so repeatedly and ad nauseum.
Source: every single post in this thread you made.

"You people". Is that anyone who disagrees with you? I have no reason to believe that you know how to prevent another Nazi uprising. I don't even know if you are afraid of Nazis.

"You people" in this context is anyone who can't parse or understand basic data, doesn't understand correlation and causation, and believes that teaching children how to stay safe is bad.
Are you trying to say anything by bringing up Nazis? Because they also were pro child marriage and anti abortion, like a certain party in the US.

People voted. Nothing happened. Excuse my cynicism.

Look who voted and how, and what the laws say that were voted on. It's literally all documented there from a primary source.
You can quite literally form your own opinion on facts and logic if you just read through that database.
And surprise, surprise it shows a very clear pattern of the GOP sabotaging Dem led proposals like I've said.

 

[jeffyTheHomebrewer]

Of course it's a right winger. They shift the blame & hate for child abuse to other people so their own kind don't get seen as the actual bad people.

 

[8BitWonder]

Wild that a post about a child groomer being arrested has people arguing instead of cheering.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Wild that a post about a child groomer being arrested has people arguing instead of cheering.

It's not when you realise that all righrwingers care for is scoring points, and they don't care if they have to step over abused or dead children (school shootings, anyone?)

 

[Bunjolio]

Idk how to verify if this is true, but a lot of predators, like these, seem to turn out being victims themselves. My estimation is that people are more predictable, manipulatable, than people generally like to admit. I believe there are methods to snuffing this cycle out, but part of that is breaking the same type of stockholm's syndrome that has people conned into voting--which works against the interest of those who are elected.

so apparently the victims are the ones doing bad stuff to kids? what kinda logic is that?

 

[Dark_Ansem]

what kinda logic is that?

This kind.

 

[chrisrlink]

and yet there are still those SO's that don't pray on children but adults who are normallly weak and defenseless I myself was nearly lured but i grew suspicios after several red flags searched his states registry and positivly ID'd and reported him

 

[tabzer]

so apparently the victims are the ones doing bad stuff to kids? what kinda logic is that?

They start out as victims and grow up to become predators. It's a vicious cycle. It's a byproduct of cope and rationalization because they don't want to feel bad about having been victimized. It's something you can learn about if you are interested in the psychology.

It's called "intergenerational cycle of abuse".

Wild that a post about a child groomer being arrested has people arguing instead of cheering.

Someone decided it was a voting issue and wanted to use it to support choices, like being American, presidents, and a litany of other shit that results.

Thanks to him being a great bad example, yes. Also surprise surprise 2023 isn't over yet so obviously there aren't official statistics yet.
This should be obvious.
Of course if you can travel in the future please share the data now so we don't have to wait.

I am in the process of traveling to the future and until I get there I'm suspending belief.

Kids being able to seek help is putting it on kids to prevent child abuse?

If kids are innately skilled at preventing child abuse, then obviously not. We both know why you needed to phrase it that way. Talk about disingenuous.

Giving potential victims the tools to prevent abuse that generally happens in secret, away from other adults, is bad?

The necessity is bad. Pedophiles shouldn't be a common fact of life or society. Mitigation is not a meaningful approach to a solution.

You can't be serious?

Clutch pearls.

You quite literally equate both of them to be bad despite one trying to improve things and the other making things worse. You do so repeatedly and ad nauseum.

"Trying".

Yes. They are both bad. They are not equal.

We weren't, "child" is defined as any person under the age of 18.
That said, that's still technically possible and has happened in the past with early bloomers. If so neither of the kids should go to jail or commit a crime, and legal abortions should be a possibility considering it's a serious health risk at that age.
And lo' and behold the GOP passed laws in multiple states that abortions for 11 year olds aren't legal so they have to travel out of state to a Democrat led one.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alison...girl-who-was-denied-abortion/?sh=e05d88f4e6e1

That's some serious flip-flopping. Fine,11-year olds.

Gonna have to call you Hollywood.

 

[supermist]

Not a drag queen.

 

[_47iscool]

"Not pictured". And the name 'Kalana Limkin' doesn't sound very 'Western'.

Neo Nazis have continued to throw their support at Trump and DeSantis.

Trump very recently, came under fire for using Nazi rhetoric once again in regards to immigration.

I understand it's an inconvenient truth for some, but Neo Nazis are part of the modern conservative platform.

Trump is extremely Pro-Israel. The very idea or accusation is laughable.

 

[RAHelllord]

If kids are innately skilled at preventing child abuse, then obviously not. We both know why you needed to phrase it that way. Talk about disingenuous.

The necessity is bad. Pedophiles shouldn't be a common fact of life or society. Mitigation is not a meaningful approach to a solution.

I see you still haven't proposed any alternatives, and apparently improving prevention and giving kids the tools to seek help is still bad.
Sure seems like you don't actually want to do anything to help improve things for anyone.

If it helps a single kid in every classroom it's more than worth doing, particularly since it can be seamlessly combined with other valuable knowledge for every kid.

But it sure appears like you got a vested interest in keeping a target group ignorant and unable to seek help.

Clutch pearls.

"Trying".

Yes. They are both bad. They are not equal.



That's some serious flip-flopping. Fine,11-year olds.

Gonna have to call you Hollywood.

Ah yes, when you can't present counter arguments just stomp your virtual feet and throw a tantrum.

Here's another fun example of democrats trying to do something and republicans blocking it, specifically while one of the republicans is still under investigation for grooming a relative.
https://michiganadvance.com/2022/06...ing-a-crime-but-republicans-arent-signing-on/
Weird how there are just so many easy examples of this happening constantly on one side but not the other.

Trump is extremely Pro-Israel. The very idea or accusation is laughable.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/don...ler-nazi-writings-analysis/story?id=105810745

He was even so kind as to repeat the quote again about "poisoning the blood of the country", something Hitler also used in his manifesto "Mein Kampf".

 

[tabzer]

I see you still haven't proposed any alternatives

Alternatives to the two party problem? Or alternatives to helping kids share a world with pedos/abusers?

and apparently improving prevention and giving kids the tools to seek help is still bad.

There you go again. You blatantly ignore what you are responding to and go for the strawman I already addressed.

Sure seems like you don't actually want to do anything to help improve things for anyone.

I think that's a projection. I believe everybody wants to create the world that they desire to live in, and there is a part of them that is convinced that it's for the greater "good", despite how self-indulged they are.

Ah yes, when you can't present counter arguments just stomp your virtual feet and throw a tantrum.

We both know what you are referring to when you said "by forcing them to carry a pregnancy to term even when it was rape". Pretending that it was about potential 18 year-olds is an unconvincing act. Then you provided your expertise on the laws surrounding children having sex to try to support it. In the end, you clarified that 11 year olds are susceptible to such laws.

I don't know if it's waffling or if you are trying to negotiate, but you are flip-flopping between available extremities in an effort to dismiss my point. It is what it is. I can't take you that seriously.

I think you, being a furry, simply want to find acceptance for who you are. It's kind of a contradiction because lying to yourself is an essential part of your sexual expression. It's easier for you to be accepted by a specific party, and if I am being honest, kind of proves our collective reasoning.

fun example

Fun...

 

[RAHelllord]

Alternatives to the two party problem? Or alternatives to helping kids share a world with pedos/abusers?

There you go again. You blatantly ignore what you are responding to and go for the strawman I already addressed.

I think that's a projection. I believe everybody wants to create the world that they desire to live in, and there is a part of them that is convinced that it's for the greater "good", despite how self-indulged they are.

Your reading comprehension is literally some of the worst I ever had the misfortune of witnessing.
An alternative to early and comprehensive sex education so that children are harder to groom, and if someone tries to groom them they know how to get help from adults. The thing I have already typed out like 3 or 4 times for you.

We both know what you are referring to when you said "by forcing them to carry a pregnancy to term even when it was rape". Pretending that it was about potential 18 year-olds is an unconvincing act. Then you provided your expertise on the laws surrounding children having sex to try to support it. In the end, you clarified that 11 year olds are susceptible to such laws.

I don't know if it's waffling or if you are trying to negotiate, but you are flip-flopping between available extremities in an effort to dismiss my point. It is what it is. I can't take you that seriously.

You are projecting hard, buddy. I live in Germany, sex ed happens in 5th grade for the first time, we have public condom ads targeted at teens (ages 12 and up), I've fooled around with other teenagers at 14. Romeo and Juliet laws are important because unlike your puritan upbringing most people in the western world aren't as prudish and don't think staying "abstinent" is an actual solution to the rampant hormones of teenagers.
Teens getting other teens pregnant in the US is incredibly common, it's not unheard of from tweens either but more rare, in extremely rare instances it can happen between kids. The fact that you have such a sheltered upbringing you aren't aware of any of this is a personal problem only you can tackle yourself.
Fun fact, teen pregnancies are far more rare in the rest of the western world where high quality sex ed is common, and our rates of child sexual abuse are also lower, due in part to aforementioned sex ed.

I think you, being a furry, simply want to find acceptance for who you are. It's kind of a contradiction because lying to yourself is an essential part of your sexual expression. It's easier for you to be accepted by a specific party, and if I am being honest, kind of proves our collective reasoning.

Wow, I didn't expect you to genuinely be this deluded, but here we are. I don't identify as a furry in the same way I don't identify as a world of warcraft player or as a Dungeon's and Dragon's. It's a hobby to look at funny upright animal pictures in the same way it's a hobby talking to people on the internet about topics they know nothing about or how it's a hobby collecting retro games.

and if I am being honest, kind of proves our collective reasoning.

our collective reasoning.

Funny how you finally admit that you're part of group that wishes to groom children and have child brides. Don't think I didn't see how you ignored that part of my previous messages. I hope you stay at least 500 yards away from schools at all times.

And all it took to get you to drop the veil was a parody avatar of a wolf with tits. Pathetic.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Your reading comprehension is literally some of the worst I ever had the misfortune of witnessing.
An alternative to early and comprehensiv

You're assuming it even exists, you're so generous.

 

[tabzer]

Your reading comprehension is literally some of the worst I ever had the misfortune of witnessing.
An alternative to early and comprehensive sex education so that children are harder to groom, and if someone tries to groom them they know how to get help from adults. The thing I have already typed out like 3 or 4 times for you.

So okay. Not the two party system. Thanks for clarifying. The alternative to "early and comprehensive sex education so that children are harder to groom" is to get rid of sex pests. I thought I was clear when I said mitigation is not a meaningful approach to a solution.

You are projecting hard, buddy. I live in Germany, sex ed happens in 5th grade for the first time, we have public condom ads targeted at teens (ages 12 and up), I've fooled around with other teenagers at 14. Romeo and Juliet laws are important because unlike your puritan upbringing most people in the western world aren't as prudish and don't think staying "abstinent" is an actual solution to the rampant hormones of teenagers.
Teens getting other teens pregnant in the US is incredibly common, it's not unheard of from tweens either but more rare, in extremely rare instances it can happen between kids. The fact that you have such a sheltered upbringing you aren't aware of any of this is a personal problem only you can tackle yourself.
Fun fact, teen pregnancies are far more rare in the rest of the western world where high quality sex ed is common, and our rates of child sexual abuse are also lower, due in part to aforementioned sex ed.

Kids not having sex at 5th grade is "prudish". That's a kind of progressive, I guess. I wonder why anyone would have a problem with that.

You keep referring to teen pregnancy as "fun". Are you aware of that?

Wow, I didn't expect you to genuinely be this deluded, but here we are. I don't identify as a furry in the same way I don't identify as a world of warcraft player or as a Dungeon's and Dragon's. It's a hobby to look at funny upright animal pictures in the same way it's a hobby talking to people on the internet about topics they know nothing about or how it's a hobby collecting retro games.

How you "identify" has nothing to do with it. AFAIK "abusers don't "identify" as "abusers". Anybody can read your post and see your attempt to equate sexual proclivities to video games and talking to people.

We both know you are playing word games.

Funny how you finally admit that you're part of group that wishes to groom children and have child brides. Don't think I didn't see how you ignored that part of my previous messages. I hope you stay at least 500 yards away from schools at all times.

Ignoring things you say is not admission of the contrary. While I find some of your strawman arguments interesting I am not as invested into your narrative as you are. I am not sure what issue you are taking up with a "our", or "collective". I'm talking with you, so I am referring to yours and mine. I can account for your reasoning, but you can't quite account for mine, because you fixated on a bipolar framework.

And all it took to get you to drop the veil was a parody avatar of a wolf with tits. Pathetic.

Yeah, clutch pearls. I'm not interested in "plausible" deniability and you cannot act. So thanks for making it easy for me.

 

[RAHelllord]

So okay. Not the two party system. Thanks for clarifying. The alternative to "early and comprehensive sex education so that children are harder to groom" is to get rid of sex pests. I thought I was clear when I said mitigation is not a meaningful approach to a solution.

What procedures do you actually propose to identify sex pests? How do you identify sex pests before they become abusers?

Kids not having sex at 5th grade is "prudish". That's a kind of progressive, I guess. I wonder why anyone would have a problem with that.

Kids not getting educated at 5th grade is prudish, not being aware that some few kids can get down to clown at that age is just delusional.

You keep referring to teen pregnancy as "fun". Are you aware of that?

My humor is darker than vanta black, everything is "fun facts" with me, particularly the more depressing the subject.
Also the fact that you think "fun" and "fun facts" are the same is just yet more evidence that you can't grasp even the most simple and basic linguistic concepts in English.

How you "identify" has nothing to do with it. AFAIK "abusers don't "identify" as "abusers". Anybody can read your post and see your attempt to equate sexual proclivities to video games and talking to people.

We both know you are playing word games.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

Ignoring things you say is not admission of the contrary. While I find some of your strawman arguments interesting I am not as invested into your narrative as you are. I am not sure what issue you are taking up with a "our", or "collective". I'm talking with you, so I am referring to yours and mine.

Everything is a strawman to you because you lack the most basic skills required to actually read up and understand topics both simple and complex, or more damningly you willfully ignore reality so as to not be forced to admit that you've been wrong. I've literally spoon fed you actual primary sources and you've dismissed them without a second thought because they go against your worldview.

I can account for your reasoning, but you can't quite account for mine, because you fixated on a bipolar framework.

That's a bold statement from someone that frequently requires clarification on the most simple of sentences, up to the point that it's completely dismissible as a fever dream to save face.

Case in point you not even being able to grasp that "fun facts" are not actually "fun" even after having been used consistently every single time.

Yeah, clutch pearls. I'm not interested in "plausible" deniability and you cannot act. So thanks for making it easy for me.

The difference between the two of us is that I am not acting. And the fact that you believe everyone has to be acting speaks volumes about you as a person.