Covid-19 vaccine

[tabzer]

show the data you are alluding to.

this post

The claims that vaccines are safe merits that cases like these are conclusive:

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20211119/p2a/00m/0na/042000c

It's always been that way too. Like with claims of vaccines contributing to autism, the HPV vaccine which caused Japan to become reluctant about vaccine related promises. "Correlation does not imply causation." There is a whole list on the CDC's website of vaccines which had issues, but they were able to deflect liability from manufacturers with this one simple trick. There was always a divide about this topic and it won't go away until the autism, these deaths, and other correlations do have conclusive cause. Until then, it could be the vaccine, it could be not the vaccine. The proposition that the vaccine is going to save the world if everybody takes them seems more like a declaration of war than a genuine attempt to fix anything.

Here's a fact check about the claim that those without a booster after 3 months suffer levels of immunity strength less than being unvaccinated. The reality appears that it was that the vaccinated were spreading the variant at much faster levels, possibly due to the belief that they were protected.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-immunesystem-covid19-vaccines-idUSL1N2TE17B

The idea of throwing more vaccine at new variants doesn't seem sustainable:

https://www.voanews.com/a/eu-drug-r...t-overuse-of-covid-booster-shots/6395174.html

Anyway, if Lacius considers himself "healthy" even when he claims to get Covid 3x AND 3x vaccine doses, I'm not wholly moved by his attempt to paint grim pictures. I think you maybe contributing to more placebo related injury for those who live by your measure and application of statistics.

 

[Lacius]

Anyway, if Lacius considers himself "healthy" even when he claims to get Covid 3x AND 3x vaccine doses, I'm not wholly moved by his attempt to paint grim pictures. I think you maybe contributing to more placebo related injury for those who live by your measure and application of statistics.

We have studies that demonstrate the safety and efficacy of the vaccines. They're repeatable and peer reviewed.

Very importantly, we haven't seen the frequency of any medical conditions go up between the beginning of vaccine availability and now that haven't already been associated with something else like COVID-19. You keep ignoring this point, and it isn't surprising. Conspiracy theorists tend to ignore evidence that contradict their baseless ideas.

There is no evidence that vaccinated people were spreading the disease more than their unvaccinated counterparts. The vaccine continues to be the best and safest way to reduce the spread of COVID-19, and that includes delta and omicron. I'm wondering if you read your own source.

As far as I'm aware, I haven't had COVID-19 three times. I had it once in January of 2021 (before the vaccine was available). I might have had it in February of 2020, but
I never got a test (they weren't readily available), and I'm not convinced it was COVID-19.

Edit: I should also mention that if you're going to talk about me, make sure to tag me or respond to my post directly. Anything else is cowardly.

 

[RocaBOT]

The claims that vaccines are safe merits that cases like these are conclusive:

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20211119/p2a/00m/0na/042000c

It's always been that way too. Like with claims of vaccines contributing to autism, the HPV vaccine which caused Japan to become reluctant about vaccine related promises. "Correlation does not imply causation." There is a whole list on the CDC's website of vaccines which had issues, but they were able to deflect liability from manufacturers with this one simple trick. There was always a divide about this topic and it won't go away until the autism, these deaths, and other correlations do have conclusive cause. Until then, it could be the vaccine, it could be not the vaccine. The proposition that the vaccine is going to save the world if everybody takes them seems more like a declaration of war than a genuine attempt to fix anything.

Here's a fact check about the claim that those without a booster after 3 months suffer levels of immunity strength less than being unvaccinated. The reality appears that it was that the vaccinated were spreading the variant at much faster levels, possibly due to the belief that they were protected.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-immunesystem-covid19-vaccines-idUSL1N2TE17B

The idea of throwing more vaccine at new variants doesn't seem sustainable:

https://www.voanews.com/a/eu-drug-r...t-overuse-of-covid-booster-shots/6395174.html

Anyway, if Lacius considers himself "healthy" even when he claims to get Covid 3x AND 3x vaccine doses, I'm not wholly moved by his attempt to paint grim pictures. I think you maybe contributing to more placebo related injury for those who live by your measure and application of statistics.

the answer lies in this sentence. You're welcome, I can read as you see

One reason for such a high figure is that various causes of deaths, other than from vaccines, can occur coincidentally. Furthermore, it is necessary to draw a comparison with the uninoculated to determine if a symptom is an adverse reaction, but no such database exists in Japan.

 

[RocaBOT]

I might add, you say we reject data that don't go in our direction. This is false. We take in all conclusive data, and that data exists all over the world and can easily be generalised to Japan, where you are specifically cherry-picking that data does not exist and conclude that hence, it could be dangerous. You're the cherry-picker, not us.

 

[tabzer]

I might add, you say we reject data that don't go in our direction. This is false. We take in all conclusive data, and that data exists all over the world and can easily be generalised to Japan, where you are specifically cherry-picking that data does not exist and conclude that hence, it could be dangerous. You're the cherry-picker, not us.

I stated why I think rejecting this data as inconclusive is a disservice and doesn't support definitive claims of safety.

A sentiment from the article:

"Instead of just saying it 'can't be evaluated,' I want them to draw a proper conclusion," said Yuji Okamoto, 63. His son Hiroyuki, a resident of the city of Higashihiroshima in Hiroshima Prefecture, died aged 30 after getting his second Moderna Inc. vaccine shot.

There should be no inconclusive data when making the definite claim of safety. If the safety of the vaccine is guaranteed, there should be a proper method to guarantee it as not being a cause of these deaths. The claim about these deaths is,"we can't tell if the vaccines did it or not."

Here is a Japanese study that is a little more conclusive about the deaths having causal relationship. It's interesting and directly contradicts a few claims floating around.

Translated PDF

 

[Coto]

I stated why I think rejecting this data as inconclusive is a disservice and doesn't support definitive claims of safety.

A sentiment from the article:

"Instead of just saying it 'can't be evaluated,' I want them to draw a proper conclusion," said Yuji Okamoto, 63. His son Hiroyuki, a resident of the city of Higashihiroshima in Hiroshima Prefecture, died aged 30 after getting his second Moderna Inc. vaccine shot.

There should be no inclusive data when making the definite claim of safety. If the safety of the vaccine is guaranteed, there should be a proper method to guarantee it as not being a cause of these deaths. The claim about these deaths is,"we can't tell if the vaccines did it or not."

Here is a Japanese study that is a little more conclusive about the deaths having causal relationship. It's interesting and directly contradicts a few claims floating around.

Translated PDF

In Chile, we've got at least 60 deaths right after some vaccination phase (since 2019). The last one was an athlete and died of heart malfunction, almost a month ago, with no past clinical history of heart diseases:

https://redgol.cl/redsport/Luto-en-...llece-en-la-prueba-de-nado-20220109-0023.html (page in Spanish). So what the Japanese study proves is accurate with what's going on over here,

 

[Lacius]

I stated why I think rejecting this data as inconclusive is a disservice and doesn't support definitive claims of safety.

A sentiment from the article:

"Instead of just saying it 'can't be evaluated,' I want them to draw a proper conclusion," said Yuji Okamoto, 63. His son Hiroyuki, a resident of the city of Higashihiroshima in Hiroshima Prefecture, died aged 30 after getting his second Moderna Inc. vaccine shot.

There should be no inclusive data when making the definite claim of safety. If the safety of the vaccine is guaranteed, there should be a proper method to guarantee it as not being a cause of these deaths. The claim about these deaths is,"we can't tell if the vaccines did it or not."

Here is a Japanese study that is a little more conclusive about the deaths having causal relationship. It's interesting and directly contradicts a few claims floating around.

Translated PDF

If, for example, someone dies of a brain aneurysm after receiving the vaccine, a causal relationship between the vaccine and the aneurysm would not be able to be determined in the absence of evidence that the vaccine did it. You're asking that scientists and medical professionals prove a negative with individual cases, and that isn't how things work. After that, if you want to find out if the vaccine causes brain aneurysms, you check to see if the proportion of the population that suffered brain aneurysms has increased since the release of the vaccine, and if it has, you then check to see if there's a correlation between vaccination status and the increase in brain aneurysms.

There has been no increase in the frequency of any medical condition, that hasn't already been attributed to something, since the vaccines became available. In other words, people are dying (and from the same things) at the rate that we would expect.

This is how science works. I'm sorry if you are unable or unwilling to understand this.

In Chile, we've got at least 60 deaths right after some vaccination phase (since 2019). The last one was an athlete and died of heart malfunction, almost a month ago:

https://redgol.cl/redsport/Luto-en-...llece-en-la-prueba-de-nado-20220109-0023.html (page in Spanish). So what the Japanese study proves is accurate with what's going on over here,

There is no evidence that the vaccines caused this heart attack, and as far as I'm aware, there's no evidence the vaccines have caused any heart attacks.

In fact, things like open water swimming and triathlons have been linked to sudden cardiac events. That's not even taking into account the athlete's physical condition, medical history, possible underlying health conditions, genetics, lifestyle, etc.

It's a mistake to say this was caused by, or likely caused by, the vaccine. There's no evidence of this, and since heart attack rates across different demographics haven't changed, there's evidence against it.

 

[Coto]

If, for example, someone dies of a brain aneurysm after receiving the vaccine, a causal relationship between the vaccine and the aneurysm would not be able to be determined in the absence of evidence that the vaccine did it. You're asking that scientists and medical professionals prove a negative with individual cases, and that isn't how things work. After that, if you want to find out if the vaccine causes brain aneurysms, you check to see if the proportion of the population that suffered brain aneurysms has increased since the release of the vaccine, and if it has, you then check to see if there's a correlation between vaccination status and the increase in brain aneurysms.

There has been no increase in the frequency of any medical condition, that hasn't already been attributed to something, since the vaccines became available. In other words, people are dying (and from the same things) at the rate that we would expect.

This is how science works. I'm sorry if you are unable or unwilling to understand this.


There is no evidence that the vaccines caused this heart attack, and as far as I'm aware, there's no evidence the vaccines have caused any heart attacks.

In fact, things like open water swimming and triathlons have been linked to sudden cardiac events. That's not even taking into account the athlete's physical condition, medical history, possible underlying health conditions, genetics, lifestyle, etc.

It's a mistake to say this was caused by, or likely caused by, the vaccine. There's no evidence of this, and since heart attack rates across different demographics haven't changed, there's evidence against it.

You're paid to tell deaths by vaccination are fake. Are you paying the rent from that job?

I mean 60 people from Chile died without any clinical history of diseases, yet, all they have in common is that at most, were vaccinated within 2 weeks. Deaths ranging from heart diseases like myocarditis, brain diseases like encephalomyelitis , etc.

Do you have any papers other than the United Nations, saying these deaths are totally unrelated to vaccination, and instead, because of a faulty inmune system? .

 

[djpannda]

You're paid to tell deaths by vaccination are fake. Are you paying the rent from that job?

I mean 60 people from Chile died without any clinical history of diseases, yet, all they have in common is that at most, were vaccinated within 2 weeks. Deaths ranging from heart diseases like myocarditis, brain diseases like encephalomyelitis , etc.

Do you have any papers other than the United Nations, saying these deaths are totally unrelated to vaccination, and instead, because of a faulty inmune system? .

Can you provide actually medical reports stating that these are actual side effect of COVID vaccine?
Because I can say that it’s not the Covid Vaccine, maybe it’s the Polio vaccine South Americans get because if you don’t provide actual proof then it’s just verbal diarrhea..
.. https://bmchealthservres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12913-020-05115-7

 

[Lacius]

You're paid to tell deaths by vaccination are fake. Are you paying the rent from that job?

I mean 60 people from Chile died without any clinical history of diseases, yet, all they have in common is that at most, were vaccinated within 2 weeks. Deaths ranging from heart diseases like myocarditis, brain diseases like encephalomyelitis , etc.

Do you have any papers other than the United Nations, saying these deaths are totally unrelated to vaccination, and instead, because of a faulty inmune system? .

There is a real, albeit very rare, risk of myocarditis with the mRNA vaccines. That being said, there are mitigations against it, and I'm unaware of any evidence that anyone has died as a direct result of it.

As to your other point, deaths (unfortunately) happen all the time. If you're going to say they were caused or likely caused by the vaccines, you need to demonstrate this, particularly when there has been no demonstration that there has been any increase in the frequencies of medical conditions since the release of the vaccines.

Anecdotes are not data, and correlation doesn't equal causation. You might as well be arguing that Legend of Arceus causes brain aneurysms.

 

[Coto]

Can you provide actually medical reports stating that these are actual side effect of COVID vaccine?
Because I can say that it’s not the Covid Vaccine, maybe it’s the Polio vaccine South Americans get because if you don’t provide actual proof then it’s just verbal diarrhea..
.. https://bmchealthservres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12913-020-05115-7

I can actually state the 60 people's names without any clinical diseases background so you can perform your own research instead of your totally trustable diarrhea sources.
Also you're still not proving deaths by vaccination, you're still quoting another disease without even knowing the last 60 chilean casualties. Are you a psychic or plain simply lying to cover up these deaths?

Edit: List of vaccine victims starting 2019, the year chileans 6 months after COVID emerged and 1st generation vaccines were made available:

Spoiler

-Cristopher Mansilla
-Luis Rogel (father of a kid who got encephalomyelitis from a vaccine shot, chilean laws prevent people's identity under 18 to be publicly exposed)
-Nelson Orellana

Renato Esteban Bastías Fischer athlete dead after vaccination

Hidden identity by chilean authorities, yet reported decease by Thrombosis after Astrazeneca dose

74 year old woman dead after vaccination

39 deaths reported by chilean government after vaccine shots

Tomás Vidiella, 83, death after vaccination shot

2 underage dead after vaccination

Doctor Guillermo Solar death. News and COLMED (another chilean health branch provided by the United Nations), hid the fact he was just vaccinated

Doctor René Sánchez death. News and COLMED (another chilean health branch provided by the United Nations), hid the fact he was just vaccinated

Doctor Francisco Briceño death after vaccination (video, a colleague, whose identity was indicated to remain anonymous, mentioned he died right after Pfizer dose)

Doctor Ricardo Tobar Herrera death. News and COLMED (another chilean health branch provided by the United Nations), hid the fact he was just vaccinated

Doctor Juan Carlos Carvajal, Doctor Patricio Morales death. News and COLMED (another chilean health branch provided by the United Nations), hid the fact they were just vaccinated

Doctor Alejandro Goic Goic death. News and COLMED (another chilean health branch provided by the United Nations), hid the fact he was just vaccinated

Doctor Audy Atay death. News and COLMED (another chilean health branch provided by the United Nations), hid the fact he was just vaccinated

Note: List is being currently populated so you can do your own research from these people's medical background.

 

[Lacius]

I can actually state the 60 people's names without any clinical diseases background so you can perform your own research instead of your totally trustable diarrhea sources.

Also you're still not proving deaths by vaccination, you're still quoting another disease without even knowing the last 60 chilean casualties. Are you a psychic?

If I cited 60 examples of people who died after playing Legends of Arceus, does that mean they died because they played the video game, or could it be the game had nothing to do with it even though a causal relationship can't be disproved?

When hundreds of millions of people get vaccinated, some of them are going to die in ways that were going to happen with or without the vaccine, and those numbers are going to add up. A causal relationship needs to actually be established, and you can at least begin to do that by checking if the frequency of any medical condition has increased. If you find one, you can see if there's any correlation between it and vaccination. If you find that, you might have found a side effect. This is called science.

It's amazing how many people here think that it's more likely than not that they're right and 99.9% of experts are wrong.

 

[tabzer]

There has been no increase in the frequency of any medical condition, that hasn't already been attributed to something, since the vaccines became available. In other words, people are dying (and from the same things) at the rate that we would expect.

Except that lab report I linked shows greater frequency of cardiovascular death in those who took the vaccine than what is expected for them.

 

[djpannda]

I can actually state the 60 people's names without any clinical diseases background so you can perform your own research instead of your totally trustable diarrhea sources.

Also you're still not proving deaths by vaccination, you're still quoting another disease without even knowing the last 60 chilean casualties. Are you a psychic or plain simply lying to cover up these deaths?

“Also you're still not proving deaths by vaccination, you're still quoting another disease without even knowing the last 60 chilean casualties.”
Lol first step in critical thinking is can you answer ( with medical sources ) the exact question you pose
You are just guessing on cause of death..
you are missing the fact the all 60 poeple also have drank water, breathed air .. so by you logic 60 people died by oxygen and hydrogen

 

[djpannda]

I can actually state the 60 people's names without any clinical diseases background so you can perform your own research instead of your totally trustable diarrhea sources.

Also you're still not proving deaths by vaccination, you're still quoting another disease without even knowing the last 60 chilean casualties. Are you a psychic or plain simply lying to cover up these deaths?

you have yet to show actual proof that 60 deaths have Anything to do with the vaccine
Look at it this way, roughly number of deaths today are about 150,000 and since bout 60% of the population are vaccinated..that does not mean the vaccine caused 80000deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/

 

[Coto]

you have yet to show actual proof that 60 deaths have Anything to do with the vaccine
Look at it this way, roughly number of deaths today are about 150,000 and since bout 60% of the population are vaccinated..that does not mean the vaccine caused 80000deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/

You're still lying and trying to come up with other sources to back up your original claim:
"Can you provide actually medical reports stating that these are actual side effect of COVID vaccine?"

Yes I can and the names are being added as we speak so people can actually investigate each of these chilean's clean medical background and how these evolved to deaths or irreparable body malfunctions as they took the vaccine shots within weeks. Which is absolutely positive with what the Japanese research has shown a few posts back.

 

[Lacius]

Except that lab report I linked shows greater frequency of cardiovascular death in those who took the vaccine than what is expected for them.

I tried really hard to verify the data in the "lab report" you cited (it wasn't actually a lab report), but I couldn't find anything. Everything I found showed the opposite to be true: There is no difference in non-COVID-19 mortality rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated people. There were also some major issues with your link, like when it tried to blame suicides on the vaccine and attempted to count those as vaccine deaths.

How likely do you think it is, on any random topic that you aren't an expert on, that you will be right and 99.9% of experts on that topic will be wrong? The answer should be "not very likely."

 

[Lacius]

You're still lying and trying to come up with other sources to back up your original claim:
"Can you provide actually medical reports stating that these are actual side effect of COVID vaccine?"

Yes I can and the names are being added as we speak so people can actually investigate each of these chilean's clean medical background and how these evolved to deaths or irreparable body malfunctions as they took the vaccine shots within weeks. Which is absolutely positive with what the Japanese research has shown a few posts back.

It's sad when people die, particularly when they seem to be young/healthy and the death comes as a sudden shock. However, these kinds of deaths have always happened, and they appear to happen about as often as they did before vaccine availability. If you're going to argue there's a causal relationship between the vaccine and these (or any other) deaths, it needs to be demonstrated. I typed out a very rough template for how one could attempt to do that.

 

[djpannda]

You're still lying and trying to come up with other sources to back up your original claim:
"Can you provide actually medical reports stating that these are actual side effect of COVID vaccine?"

Yes I can and the names are being added as we speak so people can actually investigate each of these chilean's clean medical background and how these evolved to deaths or irreparable body malfunctions as they took the vaccine shots within weeks. Which is absolutely positive with what the Japanese research has shown a few posts back.

Yet you still have not provided any actual proof

But let’s play your bias narrative
60 deaths you say are because of the vaccine
Chile has a population of 19millon and vaccination rate of 92% (at least one shot)
Which means about 17.5million Vaccinated Chileans
17.5million /60 = 0.0034% chance of death from Vaccine

Compared to 2.34million Covid case in Chile and 39,930 Covid death
2.34million /39,930 =1.7% chance of death..
So ..Vaccine for everyone !

(But really we are talking about a country with a 92% vaccination rate
..60(non proved) death is statically nothing

you have more chance of dying from ring worm 1,770 deaths https://www.statista.com/statistics/1091037/chile-causes-death/#

 

[Coto]

Yet you still have not provided any actual proof

But let’s play your bias narrative
60 deaths you say are because of the vaccine
Chile has a population of 19millon and vaccination rate of 92% (at least one shot)
Which means about 17.5million Vaccinated Chileans
17.5million /60 = 0.0034% chance of death from Vaccine

Compared to 2.34million Covid case in Chile and 39,930 Covid death
2.34million /39,930 =1.7% chase of death..
So ..Vaccine for everyone !

You are trying to come up with math and guess games to prove your original point. I am posting chilean names so you, instead of lying and coming up with updated lies, can actually investigate each death and how the vaccine led them to their demise.

If a subject from the list wasn't vaccinated, maybe your maths could make sense. Because you're taking for granted a population of ~19million is being vaccinated, which is false.