I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or stupid. If you're trolling, bravo. If you're just stupid, I am so, so sorry.
[BFWWIWA] Issue #2 - Sony PSVita
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It had the makings of a good story, it just needed a more refined writer. As for the FPP sections, I think the problem with the game was that it felt like it was designed specifically to be playable with just the WiiMote, as if the Nunchuck wasn't a viable option. If the control scheme focused on a WiiMote+Nunchuck combination instead, FPP sections could be as "mobile" as ever. Then again, I think they were going for that classic D-pad control scheme. As for the "spot the tiny things" elements, that really never bothered me, it was exactly like shooting at switches and doors in previous Metroid games. I don't think it was necessarily a bad Metroid game, it was actually kinda nice to see Samus's softer side, get to experience what made her who she was, catch up with characters from her past and so on. The writing just needed more polish... As a game though, it played just about right for me - I liked it.
Yeah, I know - shocking!
Again, I liked it the way it was. I think it represented both the 2D and the 3D Metroids just fine, and since the gameplay was not faulty (aside from the aforementioned FPP sections), I don't see why it would have to be a new IP.
That's not up to me - only you guys can make it happen.
NO. You have to cheat. GameCube is life.
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Then that's the difference between us. I have ten different consoles hooked up to my entertainment center, so I usually don't keep any controllers out on my coffee table. I keep them in the dedicated shelf I have for them. I keep the wiimotes in the coffee table drawer (because they're the only ones that fit), and I sometimes keep a controller for the game I know I'm currently playing out, but that's it.
For me they're borderline crippling. I can't even begin to guess how many times I turned the wrong way or too slowly in Sonic Colors, or attacked in the wrong direction in Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Project M.
Im just trying to convince myself why my $300 PS4 peripheral is worth it.....i have invested more than that into my Vita and now it seems like money thrown into the wind......
I'm left speechless.
God I am really starting to develop a hate against that company every time they do something stupid as that.
So I'm a Sony fanboy now because over the years I've said that the Wii should supported DVD's (because it has a DVD drive) but doesn't because Nintendo are cheapskates and the Wii U should support BluRay (because it had a BluRay drive) and Gamecube discs but doesn't because again, Nintendo are cheapskates. It's perfectly fine to rag on about no Audio CD support on a Sony console, but ragging on no Audio CD support on any Nintendo console in the history of ever is a no-no. Duly noted.
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It's not like I don't understand that move - the Gamecube is an old-ass system and there's no reason to support it two generations onwards, but the Wii U literally has everything to support it, so there's no harm in implementing it.
Oh, wait - Gamecube HD remakes.
I really don't wanna know how you manage to pull that off.
I wouldn't mind if the remakes were actually remakes rather than HD ports.Oh, wait - Gamecube HD remakes.
This is depressing. Thanks, Foxi!
I don't mind ports. As long as the game is good and the price is right, I'm all for it. It's when the port is priced like a brand-new game when I have a problem.
Enough about the Wii U, the Wii, the Gamecube, the PS3 and the PS4 though - this is a PSVita thread, let's stick to that. I was just making a point here - certain things become obsolete over time and stop being priorities in the eyes of the design team - DVD will soon enter that sphere too as BluRay slowly but surely replaces it.
Back to the Vita?
YEAH, VITA, HELL YEAH. I'm still playing Borderlands 2. It updated again the other day. Gotta say, it just keeps living up to expectations for me. A great purchase for my powerhouse of a handheld.
YEAH, VITA, HELL YEAH. I'm still playing Borderlands 2. It updated again the other day. Gotta say, it just keeps living up to expectations for me. A great purchase for my powerhouse of a handheld.
Which is what I was referring to.
But you're right we went kinda off topic here.
I recently found out that the skype app of Vita also runs in the background while you are playing. which is really really neat.
One thing that was bothering me. Does BL2 come with all the DLC's? If it is I would consider buying it.
I have Borderlands 2 on my PS3 and it didn't particularly appeal to me, but it's still an achievement to have it running on a portable nonetheless. I just wish more third-party developers would go the extra mile and delivered similar large-scale games on the system as I do most of my gaming on-the-go.
It indeed does, just like all the other PSVita applications. The only gripe I have with it is that it does not support text messaging like the Android version does, which is a huge downside to me as I mostly use Skype for text-talk, as odd as it sounds considering it's primarily voice call-oriented service. I will add that the system does support phone calls though, provided you have a Skype credit, so technically you could even call someone on the phone while playing a game - neat.
You can make a controller that doesn't go out of its way to comment on which gaming styles are superior and what layout is best for them.
There is hypothrtically no reason they can't be supported.
if you are moving with left stick, looking with right stick, changing direction with right stick, and aiming with right stick, then while doing those things your index fingers can only be on the shoulder buttons. Those are your buttons, this is your layout, and it could not get any more simple that that. The buttons and dpad are still there but logically speaking they are supplements if you are going to argue on the matter at all, which you have.
how frequently camera manipulation is needed shouldn't be the only factor. It should also be how many games use it at all (close too 100 percent) whether its used for aiming/shooting (i.e. mechanics ripped from fpp) as opposed to just looking at something, and whether youre using buttons WHILE doing it, or would have wanted to but cant.
Yes, complete random fluke occerences those are
also it is funny in itself you chose the word isolated when there is nothing isolated about it. The reason so many games use both sticks is precisely because games are not isolated. They do not exist in a vacuum. (hell, even when a game is designed in a vacuum, it is automatically shunned for it. How many times have we heard for sonic to become more like mario, or how many ppl hate RE for not being able to run and shoot when, hello, other shooters let you run and shoot. Someone give Capcom the memo? stop making your game different you numbnuts!) When a game copies asreally successful game or copies something which ten other games are doing, it's not exactly a damn coincidence, but an inevitable consequence, for better or worse.
I'm not here saying "I prefer x", I'm here to point out that you are wrong.
Not all of the DLC, but quite a bit of it. The last two or three pieces of DLC should be coming at some point in the future, probably for an additional cost.
With the game though, you get:
Captain Scarlett and Her Pirate's Booty
Mr. Torgue's Campaign of Carnage
Collector's Edition Pack
Ultimate Vault Hunter Upgrade Pack 1
Mechromancer Character Pack
Psycho Character Pack
So a pretty huge chunk of the DLC for free just by purchasing a new copy of the game. Mind you, it isn't quite as good of a deal as picking up the GOTY edition on a home console, but it ain't bad by any means either considering they didn't have to include any DLC.
Edit: I should also mention that my trophies show a section for Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragonkeep as well, so I don't know if that was part of the DLC that just wasn't mentioned (I won't be able to access it for a little more story if it is included), or if it's just intended for release soon enough that they simply included that trophy section anyways.
No commentary, just pure utility. Providing comfort for the most popular and numerous game genres.
Steering wheels are better for racing games, joysticks are better for flight simulators, no hypothesizing here at all, just stating facts. In addition, analog sticks are not actually ideal for shooters - a mouse and a keybord are. This doesn't mean that a dual analog setup isn't optimal in all three cases, which is why it's implemented in pretty much all the consoles these days.
Again, you're assuming that you're aiming or changing the camera angle all the time, which is not something you do in most games, most being the keyword. Dynamically changing the camera or aiming the reticule is only necessary in certain portions of most games - in others, you want the utility of function buttons instead.
Not that I want to burst your bubble, but aiming a reticule in FPP is literally changing the camera orientation.
Again, you're not getting my point. A lot of games, dare I say the majority of games these days use both sticks, but one is used more often than the other 9 out of 10 times.
In your opinion. Again, there's only so much you can do with an analog stick. If it's clickable, which isn't always the case, you can realistically assign only two functions to it - one for the button and one for the axes the stick works around. In comparison, you have four function buttons. If in your game the character will have to be able to perform four functions, say, jump, sneak, use items and crouch (running already mapped to the left clickable analog), you are completely boned with your imagined setting. I have seen some implementations of treating the analog like a multi-directional D-Pad where each direction enables a different function, but they were all incredibly inaccurate simply because you had to hit the sweet spots to activate what you actually wanted, making them terribly uncomfortable and hamfisted.
Again, this is completely a matter of personal preference. To me, the priority placement is the one with thumbs upwards, to you it makes no difference and that's also a valid position - we just have a different idea about controller ergonomics.
Me too
I was really disappointed to see that i can't text chat with other people through it which is why I discovered this function so late. It is really a god sin that the Vita is doing so poorly.
Neat, I guess I am going to buy it then. Thanks for the info.
I would love to buy the GOTY Edition now on Steam but I am too broke atm. My timing really isn't the best sometimes >.<
Outside of the sale its about 50€ so If I get almost the same for half the price on a portable console then it sounds like a fair deal to me.
it's called Bumper Jumper
Yes they are prominently featured for shooting, wanna know why that is? Because 1) you can't shoot with a face button, and 2) vast majority of games have shooting.
checkmate
Some games have reload mapped to shoulders, others have it on face buttons. That is not exactly the point. It doesn't really prove anything to show that some games map something to a face button. (whether that something is jump or something else) The exact same FPS which uses face button for jump uses the camera stick and the shoulder buttons as much if not more so than the face buttons, so, you still lose.
And I must point out that how a game maps is controls is irrelevant. If for example a new Mario game mapped jump button to the dpad, is that an argument for why the dpad should be in the primary position while the left stick should be demoted to support role? No, it doesn't, because 1) being on top or bottom should not denote superiority or inferiority, and because 2) if given the choice, I would simply map jump to something else. In effect, how a particular game chose to map its controls is irrelevant.
in other words
shooters (first person)
shooters (third person)
FPP (elder scrolls, etc)
and games with FPP and FPS mechanics (e.g. GTA, Infamous, Just cause 2, Uncharted, etc, etc)
or do you live in a bubble where you ONLY play the exceptions.
Per your logic a controller is going to inferior at some things no matter how you style the layout. Having both sticks on bottom is fundamentally no worse than having the stick layouts mixed up, except that personally I would rather have a controller that's not expressly made worse for certain things (which is what leaving the camera stick in the non-primary position represents) rather than a controller that is specifically designed for a nonexistent environment. (i.e. an environment where camera stick is seldomly used or not used at all)
It is something you do in most games, usually most of the times, but even if it's not most of the time, it's going to be all the time during sequences when shooting mechanics are used.
You've placed the burden on yourself to explain why face buttons deserve priority while the camera control deserves to be snubbed.
And why do you keep saying function buttons? Aside from it being unintelligible, I can't figure out why you do it in the first place. I mean it's like not face buttons are sentient beings when can be offended if I use politically incorrect terms to describe them.
If camera and aiming are the same thing then why are you snubbing both? Why are you arguing that games only sometimes make you point a gun, and that pointing a gun and/or turning your character using camera stick is not the definining mechanic of all of gaming for at least two gens now?
You still think videogames work like Nintendo 64: left stick to move, A to swing your sword, camera buttons to access your inventory. R-button for z-targeting because looking at enemies manually would be too confusing to implement, and let's completely ignore the that that 90 percent of games have you manually look at everything that needs to be looked at, a process which requires constant attention from the player.
Oh but zeello what if I want to CROUCH?!
That's only because one is used all the time.
And what about dpad? It's used less than the camera stick. So why not create a third row and put the dpad there? So we'd have a primary position, sub-primary position, and sub-sub primary position, and everything would be in the correct place.
The dpad come to think of it raises another point. Games with 3D environments will use dpad only seldomly. Whereas they will almost certainly use the camera stick a lot more. As I stated earlier, the only thing camera stick is "competing" with are buttons, but WE ALREADY HAVE THOSE. THEY ARE ON THE SHOULDER.
If you give unintelligible or inaccurate reasoning then it's not necessarily a matter of opinion.
Okay but why do you assign left stick to the primary position then? It only does two things whereas dpad does four things. Dpad wins.
Left stick is only needed in between sequences to get to the next area. It's purely a peripheral function and not something you need to do constantly in most games.
What is 'imagined setting' even referring to?! Could you be referring to when I had this:
"if you are moving with left stick, looking with right stick, changing direction with right stick, and aiming with right stick, then while doing those things your index fingers can only be on the shoulder buttons. Those are your buttons, this is your layout, and it could not get any more simple that that. The buttons and dpad are still there but logically speaking they are supplements if you are going to argue on the matter at all, which you have.
Umm, that's not some hypothetical dream controller I was making up. It's what we literally have. I even mentioned the buttons and dpad. It's a real controller and I'm not the one who made it, so in no way is there a burden on me to defend it or explain why it would work. I'm not asking for a camera stick; we already have one. I'm not asking for games to use the camera stick more; it is already used excessively.
It floors me however that some people don't see that and I have to wonder if it's precisely because the face buttons are in the "primary" position or because they have bright colors and are iconified by letters/symbols while sticks are just sticks. In that case it is a top-down, subliminal effect. Buttons aren't "primary" because of their innate importance, you are assigning them innate importance because they are "primary". All those times you use the camera stick, it never really happens, because it's way down there, it's gray/black, and isn't labelled, and doesn't make things explode the instant you use it. Killing an enemy isn't so much the camera stick's job as it is the button's; the camera stick was merely supplementary to the kill-whatever-is-in-the-exact-center-of-the-screen button, and in no way the complete opposite. Next we'll be saying that left stick should be replaced with gas button and steering should be placed where the R trigger is. Because you hold down gas all the time, but steering is something you only occasionally do. "just when there's a turn, zeello. duh" Mario kart is a game about going fast and using items, the steering part is only when the course demands it, which is not most of the time. (key word: most)
hell yes, exactly. When playing Gran Turismo, my left stick stays dormant most of the time unless I need to adjust where I'm driving to. Bravo, Foxi. Bravo.
If you think this, then it stands to reason that there should be a stick under both of your thumbs. You're the one saying this. You cannot say there should be a stick under the left thumb "because games nowadays" but not the other thumb, in spite of games nowadays.
It is a noble position. If you give me a controller with both sticks on bottom (PS style) or both sticks on top (WiiU style) then both are valid offerings and I will not complain in either case, because both are neutral and neither have anything retarded to say. But if you give me a controller with a stick on top and the other on bottom and say "you're welcome" then I might take it upon myself to explain why you are wrong, and furthermore, I will also defend my right not to have myself stick-layout-evangelized. Would I put up with a controller with the left stick on bottom, right stick on top, a layout which was forced upon me only because a bunch of idiot fanboys made some noise insisting that it should be the standard controller? In such a scenario, I'm not the one who started the issue, I'm merely someone who was dragged into it whether I liked it or not. Of course it's a perfectly usable layout, in fact equally usable to the other 3 possible combinations (PS, Xbox, and WiiU) but I nonetheless could not use such a controller if me doing so would be taken a concession that the controller is somehow better than other layouts when it certainly is not.
I actually had a pretty long-winded response ready for you, despite reaching a couple sections that made me question whether you're genuienly confused, trolling, being sarcastic or being stupid.
To name a couple, "Left stick is only needed in between sequences to get to the next area", as if y'know, games didn't feature movement, be it of the character or across menus all the time. Another gem was "If you think this, then it stands to reason that there should be a stick under both of your thumbs." which goes completely against the preceeding idea of putting more priority on movement and face buttons and less priority on the d-pad and camera control, specifically because the D-pad and the right analog stick are used sporadically, if at all. "Okay but why do you assign left stick to the primary position then? It only does two things whereas dpad does four things. Dpad wins" is a firm personal favourite - because 4 directions (8 if you count diagonal combinations) are better than 360 degrees of movement (actually more than that, since computers operate on radians, but I'll keep it simple for you).
Our disagreement isn't based based on superficial details, it's based on absolutely fundamental principles. If you really want to put both thumbs on the thumbsticks and never take them off at any point in time for maximum precision of movement and camera control, I suggest designing a controller with two analog sticks and least 8 shoulder buttons and triggers because by god, you're going to need them. Here in the real world games use function buttons, or if you prefer, face buttons (which is a terribly inaccurate description since Start/Select/PlayStation/XBox/Home/+/- and a variety of other buttons on contemporary controllers are face buttons, but are not in-game function buttons. As a side note I'll also say that they're situated in the least prioritized place, in the very center of the controller, because they're the least used - I know, mindblowing).
I'll even go as far as to refute your "you cannot shoot with face buttons" point with an example - various installments of Metal Gear Solid seem to work perfectly fine with using the face buttons just fine for that purpose. The "vast majority of games contain shooting" point can also be easily contested, but that's self-explainatory. Your "checkmate" is a lot more like "this is my inaccurate approximation of the real world". Alas, I digress.
You say that both sticks are used more or less equally and point out such genres as... FPS and TPS. That's all you mention. That's it. FPP and TPP are not genres, they're perspectives, but again, that's besides the point. I take it that in your world, turn-based RPG's, strategies, racing games, sports games, puzzle games, fighting games and 2D games simply don't exist... and you're calling my bubble "small".
I've made my point clear, but I'll make it clearer in this finishing post - pick up your phone. Now have a good look at what you're doing. Call me clairvoyant, but you probably did something along those lines:
Do you know why? Because holding your thumb up comes to you naturally, it's the anatomically-correct placement. Holding it across the phone does not. This is why some sections of the controller are prioritized and some are not. When holding a controller in an anatomically-correct way, you want to have the most commonly used inputs at your fingertips - this includes the left analog stick which is used all the time, the triggers (which are always accessible anyways) and the face buttons, if you insist on me calling them that. The rest of the inputs are in other places on the controller that are less favourable, the d-pad and the right analog stick using the ones that are still fairly easily accessible. That's all there is too it.
You don't seem to understand what ergonomics stand for, so I'll explain - ergonomics of a controller are all about creating shapes and setups that are most anatomically sound. When you're holding your hand in its resting position, your digits are slightly curved wheras your thumb is pointing straight, as such:
It's not pointing away from the rest of your hand (as it would have to be to reach the center of the controller), it's straight, anatomically correct. You want your primary inputs to be within reach when your thumb is in this level position because it avoids unnecessary strain - that's ergonomical. Now, let's super-impose this onto an image of a controller.
This is the exact same hand in the exact same resting position, mirrored and semi-transparent for your point-viewing convenience. Bar some minor size adjustments, it should now be relatively clear why some positions on a gamepad are more prioritized than others. Here's how the same situation looks like in real-life, with applied grip.
This is a natural, relaxed position. You're holding the controller and all the important inputs are at your fingertips. You don't have to turn or stretch out your thumb to move the on-screen character or cursor - this causes less strain. At the same time, other inputs are not too far away from that relaxed position, so when you do need to use them, your thumb does not have to travel far to reach them, but at the same time, they're not in the way.
In an ideal setup you want to provide the most convenience with the least strain, this is why controllers have layouts that allow the user access to core functionality without moving the digits too far from their natural resting position - maximizing utility while minimizing the amount of movement equals maximizing efficiency and minimizing strain - that's controller ergonomics.
If you want to argue about this further, I'd like you to take it outside of this thread, which is about the PSVita, and sort it out elsewhere - I've made my point crystal clear, rarely do I ever resort to images in order to explain a point, especially ones that require me to put in some effort in the form of editing, and if you still don't get it then we'll just have to agree to disagree, because again, we disagree on absolutely fundamental points when it comes to design. I hope you will respect that and refrain from taking this thread off-topic even further.
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