Gaming Is the Switch an eighth generation or ninth generation console?

IFireflyl · Jul 6, 2020

x65943 said:
I said the Switch was a console/handheld hybrid. The switch lite is a handheld. Let's be clear about what we both say and not try to mischaracterize each other's statements.

Your phone example is silly because it is not marketed as a gaming console or handheld. What handheld generation is my TI-84 calculator? I played games on it.

The TI-84 was not created primarily for games, and was not marketed as such. Smartphones, on the other hand, have been built with mobile games as one of their primary functions, and are marketed as such. I'm sure you've seen the commercials of people playing games on their iPhones and Android phones. The Samsung Galaxy Note 9 was designed with mobile games as a primary function (as are most high-end smartphones now). My old Nokia 6010 could play Snake. It wasn't designed primarily for games, but it could play them. It also wasn't marketed as a device for playing games. Since high-end smartphones are designed with mobile games as a primary function, and since they are marketed as gaming devices, the definition of handheld console applies to those smartphones.

x65943 · Jul 6, 2020

Goku1992A said:
Ok lets play Devils Advocate (Lets forget about if it can dock or not) Lets even forget it is a handheld Lets call it a "portable console" but as far as generation goes this is like (PS3/Xbox 360) generation we are talking about competing with devices. The switch has more in common with the PS3/360 in-terms of it current capabilities than the PS4/Xbox one. So it would be 3rd generation. The wii sure wasn't in the PS3 or 360 league and neither was the Wii U but the switch is good running mates with the PS3/Xbox 360. Now when it comes to the PS4/Xbox one those devices blow the switch out of water when it comes to what they are offering. PS Now/Game Pass , Monthly Free Games (With Online) , Game Streaming , You can talk online with other people, Multimedia features also most importantly 4K support ... the list goes on and on. PS4/Xbox One is like Goku and Vegeta and the switch is like Gohan.

The switch being insanely underpowered is nothing new
The Wii was way underpowered
The WiiU was way underpowered
The Switch is way underpowered

Nintendo had to pivot after the Gamecube sold so poorly, and they have never tried to create another powerful home console since then.

But power is not what defines these generations. There is a reason the Wii, WiiU and Switch are considered to be in the same generation as their competitors - it's because they are directly competing for the same revenue and userbase.

IFireflyl said:
The TI-84 was not created primarily for games, and was not marketed as such. Smartphones, on the other hand, have been built with mobile games as one of their primary functions, and are marketed as such. I'm sure you've seen the commercials of people playing games on their iPhones and Android phones. The Samsung Galaxy Note 9 was designed with mobile games as a primary function (as are most high-end smartphones now). My old Nokia 6010 could play Snake. It wasn't designed primarily for games, but it could play them. It also wasn't marketed as a device for playing games. Since high-end smartphones are designed with mobile games as a primary function, and since they are marketed as gaming devices, the definition of handheld console applies to those smartphones.

While a lot of what you say is true, it all comes down to marketing. The phones are mobile devices, and they are compared to other mobile gaming devices. That is why they aren't included in the gaming generations for either handheld or console.

To some extent there is relation to the PC market because phones don't have discrete periods of 5 or so years before they upgrade - bigger, badder phones release all the time. You wouldn't say for example a computer is in "x generation" of home consoles.

Goku1992A · Jul 6, 2020

x65943 said:
The switch being insanely underpowered is nothing new
The Wii was way underpowered
The WiiU was way underpowered
The Switch is way underpowered

Nintendo had to pivot after the Gamecube sold so poorly, and they have never tried to create another powerful home console since then.

But power is not what defines these generations. There is a reason the Wii, WiiU and Switch are considered to be in the same generation as their competitors - it's because they are directly competing for the same revenue and userbase.

You bring a very good point and that is why Nintendo isn't going to last in the long run. When people look at Nintendo products "technically" it is in the same generation but what it is offering make it behind a few generations i guess a best way to put it we are moving in 5G and you have that cell phone company that is still offering 3G (this is basically Nintendo) Wii sold over 100 million units and the switch barely made it to half so the user base is declining. I totally understand what you are saying but me personally yes it is in the same generation but what it is offering it makes me look at is as a tad old. At this point in the game I'm even forgetting about it's graphics I can forgive the graphics but as in-terms of what "This Gen is offering us" If Nintendo offered like monthly free games and a gamimg subsription services and a way you can play remotely I could have put it to this gen (I'm being extremely nice by not saying the lack of 3rd party games or even the graphics) I watched the documentary of Sega and this is how Sega came crashing down as a company. I strongly beleive the people at the top for Nintendo was told to include these things but bad decisions and etc.. is why they couldn't even offer basic things. Everything I listed is basic nothing complicated.

I guess you can say a 2017 model car with a 2013 engine inside of it.

x65943 · Jul 6, 2020

Goku1992A said:
You bring a very good point and that is why Nintendo isn't going to last in the long run. When people look at Nintendo products "technically" it is in the same generation but what it is offering make it behind a few generations i guess a best way to put it we are moving in 5G and you have that cell phone company that is still offering 3G (this is basically Nintendo) Wii sold over 100 million units and the switch barely made it to half so the user base is declining. I totally understand what you are saying but me personally yes it is in the same generation but what it is offering it makes me look at is as a tad old. At this point in the game I'm even forgetting about it's graphics I can forgive the graphics but as in-terms of what "This Gen is offering us" If Nintendo offered like monthly free games and a gamimg subsription services and a way you can play remotely I could have put it to this gen (I'm being extremely nice by not saying the lack of 3rd party games or even the graphics) I watched the documentary of Sega and this is how Sega came crashing down as a company. I strongly beleive the people at the top for Nintendo was told to include these things but bad decisions and etc.. is why they couldn't even offer basic things. Everything I listed is basic nothing complicated.

I guess you can say a 2017 model car with a 2013 engine inside of it.

I see all your points. The key difference between Ninty and Sega is that Ninty has much much stronger IP.

And as others have pointed out that is what keeps them afloat. People will buy whatever underpowered gadget ninty throws out as long as it's got Zelda, Mario and Pokemon.

IFireflyl · Jul 6, 2020

x65943 said:
I see all you points. The key difference between Ninty and Sega is that Ninty has much much stronger IP.

And as others have pointed out that is what keeps them afloat. People will buy whatever underpowered gadget ninty throws out as long as it's got Zelda, Mario and Pokemon.

While I don't agree that people should be comparing the Switch to current gen consoles, I definitely agree with you here. Like I said in my initial post: if these Switch exclusives were released on the current gen consoles and/or PC there would be no more Switch. Nintendo exclusivity is the only REAL feature the Switch has.

x65943 · Jul 6, 2020

IFireflyl said:
While I don't agree that people should be comparing the Switch to current gen consoles, I definitely agree with you here. Like I said in my initial post: if these Switch exclusives were released on the current gen consoles and/or PC there would be no more Switch. Nintendo exclusivity is the only REAL feature the Switch has.

And tbh it would be a bad idea to release a stronger console. They can sell underpowered consoles and make games for them that are much cheaper to develop (AAA games cost orders of magnitude more to produce), and still sell millions.

It's not a bad strategy, it's just different.

Makes me think of game theory in evolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_game_theory

Goku1992A · Jul 6, 2020

x65943 said:
I see all you points. The key difference between Ninty and Sega is that Ninty has much much stronger IP.

And as others have pointed out that is what keeps them afloat. People will buy whatever underpowered gadget ninty throws out as long as it's got Zelda, Mario and Pokemon.

They have to change it up a little Mario and Zelda been around for 30 years and pokemon been around for 20. You can kinda see them running out of Ideas maybe Zelda can keep on going but Mario and Pokemon is really burned out. It's kinda sad because Nintendo were once the leaders of gaming but they are putting all their eggs in one basket. They have to learn how to kill a franchise and start a new one not keep having it repeatedly for over 10 years because people get older and grow up. Final Fantasy came out on a NES and somehow some way Final Fantasy is basically got out of their hands. That should have stayed a Nintendo Exclusive title.

Nintendo has that reputation of catering to children and families "bringing them to play together" If you have noticed stuff like Fornite and Apex all the kids are gravitating towards that. In the near future Mario, Pokemon and Kirby is not going to be appealing to kids and then Zelda is going to be too old. If Nintendo invested in other ideas they would have adjusted to the time. They are going to end up like Toys R Us. 20 years ago kids played with toys 20 years later most kids have a phone.

BTW Gaming is declining.... Maybe Nintendo will survive after all making mobile games they did make a billion dollars in a mobile game so I can see them more as a mobile gaming company in the next 10 or 20 years from today.

x65943 · Jul 6, 2020

Goku1992A said:
They have to change it up a little Mario and Zelda been around for 30 years and pokemon been around for 20. You can kinda see them running out of Ideas maybe Zelda can keep on going but Mario and Pokemon is really burned out. It's kinda sad because Nintendo were once the leaders of gaming but they are putting all their eggs in one basket. They have to learn how to kill a franchise and start a new one not keep having it repeatedly for over 10 years because people get older and grow up. Final Fantasy came out on a NES and somehow some way Final Fantasy is basically got out of their hands. That should have stayed a Nintendo Exclusive title.

Nintendo has that reputation of catering to children and families "bringing them to play together" If you have noticed stuff like Fornite and Apex all the kids are gravitating towards that. In the near future Mario, Pokemon and Kirby is not going to be appealing to kids and then Zelda is going to be too old. If Nintendo invested in other ideas they would have adjusted to the time. They are going to end up like Toys R Us. 20 years ago kids played with toys 20 years later most kids have a phone.

BTW Gaming is declining.... Maybe Nintendo will survive after all making mobile games they did make a billion dollars in a mobile game so I can see them more as a mobile gaming company in the next 10 or 20 years from today.

You say they have to change things up, but they still make millions. There is a reason Disney has released a bajillion stupid marvel movies, people actually like when you slightly alter things and shove it down their throats for the hundredth time.

Nintendo is doing as well as ever, the Switch has outsold the N64, gamecube and Wii U. Nostalgia culture is if anything getting bigger and bigger. And to boot, nintendo is still producing new IP. I really don't think they have anything to worry about for a while. They've got a massive war chest.

Goku1992A · Jul 6, 2020

x65943 said:
You say they have to change things up, but they still make millions. There is a reason Disney has released a bajillion stupid marvel movies, people actually like when you slightly alter things and shove it down their throats for the hundredth time.

Nintendo is doing as well as ever, the Switch has outsold the N64, gamecube and Wii. Nostalgia culture is if anything getting bigger and bigger. And to boot, nintendo is still producing new IP. I really don't think they have anything to worry about for a while. They've got a massive war chest.

Disney is a superpower they have streams of income from many avenues. Disney isn't giving us 20 Lion King Movies or Spin offs but Nintendo is. Disney know how to make a smash hit and make another hit without relying on older projects. Nintendo rely on older projects to keep them afloat. Disney even have Disney+ Just to compete with Netflix and Disney even took control of Hulu. I guess it is about competeion Nintendo is more passive than competetive. They are not aggressive they are not hungry they are not trying to be the best they are content. Nintendo may be doing well today but in 20 years "atleast for selling video game products" they are either going to keep doing what they are doing with the switch or go to mobile gaming. Sometimes I think that's why they decided just to use the switch as portable and hybrid like they provally had to recover from the Wii U.

x65943 · Jul 6, 2020

Goku1992A said:
Disney is a superpower they have streams of income from many avenues. Disney isn't giving us 20 Lion King Movies or Spin offs but Nintendo is. Disney know how to make a smash hit and make another hit without relying on older projects. Nintendo rely on older projects to keep them afloat. Disney even have Disney+ Just to compete with Netflix and Disney even took control of Hulu. I guess it is about competeion Nintendo is more passive than competetive. They are not aggressive they are not hungry they are not trying to be the best they are content. Nintendo may be doing well today but in 20 years "atleast for selling video game products" they are either going to keep doing what they are doing with the switch or go to mobile gaming. Sometimes I think that's why they decided just to use the switch as portable and hybrid like they provally had to recover from the Wii U.

There are 23 Marvel films with 14 more in development. You think Disney is original? Have you seen their new ripoff star wars triology? Palpatine coming back in IX was one of the weakest moments in cinematic history period. I don't want to get too off-topic, but people actually like when brands do things they expect. When brands take things in new weird directions - fans usually get very angry. Think about all the backlash surrounding the Last of Us sequel.

MikaDubbz · Jul 6, 2020

The way I've always viewed it is, the Wii was really just a continuation of the 6th gen for Nintendo, by essentially being just a slightly more powerful Gamecube with a new focus on motion controls. Meanwhile, Sony and Microsoft made true steps forward into the 7th gen with the PS3 and 360. Because this second shot of life into the 6th gen (the Wii) was so successful for Nintendo, they were very late to truly join the 7th gen with the Wii U, which is pretty much on par with the 360 and PS3, but Sony and Microsoft were going to quickly leave Nintendo behind, and Nintendo's gimmick of the Gamepad wasn't taking hold like motion control did, so they weren't going to last into the 8th gen with hardware on par with the previous gen, so rather quickly they moved on and had the Switch join the PS4 and Xbone in the 8th gen despite still being less powerful than them. This time though, the 'gimmick' did take hold again, so it's once again ok that Nintendo's latest system isn't on par with it's peers in terms of power.

Goku1992A · Jul 6, 2020

Well to be honest with you (I'll try to stay on the original topic) Nintendo killed handhelds so the switch is what they are running with for the future. Considering the piracy situation the switch is going to have a short lifespan I give it 2 or 3 years max before they retire it. We are not going to get another hand held or home console again we are going to get something like the switch. Nintendo kinda shot themselves in the foot because you cant make a handheld again that is weaker than the switch (due to costs and development). I honestly think the switch is the best they can actually do they cant put too much power into it because trying to do it as portable and dock it at the same time the device is going to be bulky and overheat.

I'm pretty big on DBZ It is like when Trunks buffed up yes he was stronger than cell but he could not hit him due to size. This is where the switch saved them and kinda putting them in the grave. PS5/Series-X is focusing on raw power so the next gen Nintendo project how are they going to improve in that area if they are trying to do a all in one device? We already saw the compromises with the switch so I can assume a device similar to it is going to be very clunky or it is going to get hot really fast. This is why they should have classified the switch only as a handheld because it could have given then room to grow for next gen. Trying to do it all in one is going to hurt them in the next gen stages.

MikaDubbz · Jul 6, 2020

Goku1992A said:
Well to be honest with you (I'll try to stay on the original topic) Nintendo killed handhelds so the switch is what they are running with for the future. Considering the piracy situation the switch is going to have a short lifespan I give it 2 or 3 years max before they retire it. We are not going to get another hand held or home console again we are going to get something like the switch. Nintendo kinda shot themselves in the foot because you cant make a handheld again that is weaker than the switch (due to costs and development). I honestly think the switch is the best they can actually do they cant put too much power into it because trying to do it as portable and dock it at the same time the device is going to be bulky and overheat.

I'm pretty big on DBZ It is like when Trunks buffed up yes he was stronger than cell but he could not hit him due to size. This is where the switch saved them and kinda putting them in the grave. PS5/Series-X is focusing on raw power so the next gen Nintendo project how are they going to improve in that area if they are trying to do a all in one device? We already saw the compromises with the switch so I can assume a device similar to it is going to be very clunky or it is going to get hot really fast. This is why they should have classified the switch only as a handheld because it could have given then room to grow for next gen. Trying to do it all in one is going to hurt them in the next gen stages.

Lol if piracy truly killed systems, then I have no idea how the DS had a life of 8 years, or the 3DS had a solid 7-8 years as well. But I love that Nintendo has merged their portable and console markets. Now every game can come to one Nintendo device instead of needlessly being split across 2 devices. So awesome to finally have Pokemon mainline games on the same system of the big console Zelda titles and everything inbetween. And we're still able to play them portably. As long as Nintendo keeps being Nintendo, this business model should continue to be very successful for them to move forward. I absolutely hope the follow up to the Switch is a Switch 2. They've hit gold with the concept of the Switch, and with Sony and Microsoft not interested in tackling the portable market themselves anymore, they're poised to continue to be a big success with their new hybrid gaming market.

DiscostewSM · Jul 6, 2020

A 9th-gen "portable" console that has HDMI-out. People like to use the power argument to claim it is 8th-gen, yet ignore that it is portable (complete with screen, battery, and a smaller size that it could possibly be), so obvious it's hindered in performance when compared to PS4 and XB1, and moreso with the soon-to-be PS5 and XSX. Yet, why has no one argued whether the 3DS is something other than 8th-gen, or the DS as 7th-gen? People look at power, so let's look at power, but from a different perspective.

The strongest "base" platform in 8th gen is the PS4, right? Purely by raw GPU flops, let's say that 1.8TFlops is 100%. The 3DS, being an 8th-gen portable, can do roughly 6.4GFlops, making it 0.36% of what the PS4 can do. Now, the Switch is capable of 176GFlops (non-boosted) in portable mode, which would make that roughly 9.78% of what the PS4 can do. Doesn't that seem a bit high for a portable in the supposed same-gen when previous generation portables could not get that high? But now let's compare it to the strongest "base" platform in 9th gen: The XSX, running at 13TFlops. Quite a gap from 1.8TFlops, right, but let's compare. Again at 176GFlops, that puts the Switch at 1.35%.

So, if the 3DS can get away with being an 8th-gen platform at 0.36% of the top performer, why can't Switch be 9th-gen with a higher ratio to that top performer at 1.35%? But this is purely with raw GPU flops, which doesn't paint the full picture. But what about the fact that Switch has had a number of downscaled ports from PS4/XB1, including the likes of Doom 2016 and Witcher 3? What about the 3DS? Did it get any ports from those two? What about from PS3/360? In fact, the 3DS got a number of ports from one more gen back in the PS2/GC/Xbox gen, and yet still seemed to struggle with those. XC3D, a port of the original on Wii, had to get downscaled, could only run on the N3DS and was still limited.

StrayGuitarist · Jul 6, 2020

I'd consider it an 8th generation console, since it wasn't quite groundbreaking enough to usher in a whole new console generation, but is definitely a very unique and interesting piece of hardware.

However, I feel like the 9th generation will be the last well-defined console generation. It seems like these defined lines between consoles will become more and more blurred as time goes on, but eh, I'm not sure what it's all actually gonna look like yet...

...Here's hoping I don't have to deal with game streaming as the mainstream for a long, long time, though.

lafleche · Jul 6, 2020

Goku1992A said:
) Wii sold over 100 million units and the switch barely made it to half so the user base is declining. I

Strange argument... Wii sold 100 million units in lifespan, switch has at least two or three years of life left so comparing to current sales of 50 millions and then concluding that user base is declining???
If sales of switch continue as it does now (there is a massive shortage so demand is there) it will near the 100 million..

PiracyForTheMasses · Jul 6, 2020

Most of you seem to lack common sense. It does NOT matter if it is a portable or not. A console is a console regardless of form factor. Switch is a replacement for the 3DS. 3DS is 8th gen. Switch is next gen obviously. Switch will see multiple revisions. No Nintendo is not in competition with Sony and Microsoft and have not been since the Gamecube. No one buys Nintendo consoles to play AAA games, they buy them for exclusives. Needless to say, Nintendos next console will be hugely under powered compared to Sony and Microsoft.

x65943 · Jul 6, 2020

PiracyForTheMasses said:
Most of you seem to lack common sense. It does NOT matter if it is a portable or not. A console is a console regardless of form factor. Switch is a replacement for the 3DS. 3DS is 8th gen. Switch is next gen obviously. Switch will see multiple revisions. No Nintendo is not in competition with Sony and Microsoft and have not been since the Gamecube. No one buys Nintendo consoles to play AAA games, they buy them for exclusives. Needless to say, Nintendos next console will be hugely under powered compared to Sony and Microsoft.

I agree, although I would say it's a replacement for both wiiu and 3ds.

Goku1992A · Jul 6, 2020

lafleche said:
Strange argument... Wii sold 100 million units in lifespan, switch has at least two or three years of live left so comparing to current sales of 50 millions and then concluding that user base is declining???
If sales of switch continue as it does now (there is a massive shortage so demand is there) it will near the 100 million..

Speaking about demand I been debating selling my Switch and Switch Lite (I have 2 switches and 2 switch lites) I think I can make a good $700 from the 2 units but a unpatched unit and a brand new pokemon edition switch lite may be worth more in the future I may just hold on to them a little longer. $250 profit doesnt seem worth it to lose those devices over if the profit is $500 I may jump the gun.

Bladexdsl · Jul 6, 2020

how is it the 8th or 9th? it's the 7th

nes
snes
64
gcube
wii
wiiu
switch

you don't count anything else including handhelds. although the switch pretty much is a handheld

ItsAshleyFTW · Jul 6, 2020

Bladexdsl said:
how is it the 8th or 9th? it's the 7th

nes
snes
64
gcube
wii
wiiu
switch

you don't count anything else including handhelds. although the switch pretty much is a handheld

I meant generations of video game consoles in general, not just Nintendo.

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