The SEGA Genesis gets a premium throwback console in the form of the Mega Sg

johnk · Oct 16, 2018

You shouldn't think it's only a mini Konsole! I have the SuperNT and the Picture is better than RGB!! The sound is perfect too.
If you plug your old modules in the SuperNT, you got a complete new experience. Perfect Picture and Sound you never seen before. The MISTER FPGA can't use Modules only games from SD-Card and support Arcade an Classic Computers and some Konsole Ports like NES. I have it too. I can't wait to see the Mega SG, the people who create this FPGA based Konsole know their job. For the SuperNT exist a hack to copy the games to the Micro-SD and that works ;-). I hope that the MegaSG get the same hack.

Rahkeesh · Oct 16, 2018

the_randomizer said:
I can't be arsed to get a Framemeister or any other RGB mods on OG hardware, this makes it a helluva lot easier for me, IMO. HDMI out, no introduced overhead/lag (sans the one if the monitor), save state support (still in beta firmware), the list goes on.

Yeah, most modern TVs aren't going to treat a 240p RGB signal well. This is far cheaper than getting a decent upscaler if you only care about running a few original consoles.

Don't think there's been any mention of save states for the SG.

the_randomizer · Oct 16, 2018

Rahkeesh said:
Yeah, most modern TVs aren't going to treat a 240p RGB signal well. This is far cheaper than getting a decent upscaler if you only care about running a few original consoles.

Don't think there's been any mention of save states for the SG.

There are experimental ones for the SD2SNES, but it's still in beta and could be cool to see. If I get this, I'll get an Everdrive because I'm lazy.

Hanafuda · Oct 16, 2018

azoreseuropa said:
Not into SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive games at all. They are not my things. Except Mega Man - The Wily Wars.

Same here and I was a gaming consumer back then. The Genesis blew the doors off the NES on graphics, but when the SNES came out I stopped paying attention to the Sega commercials.

I bought the Super NT and can vouch for Analogue’s quality. But I’d rather see a new run of the NT Mini built with a Super NT style plastic shell (instead of milled aluminum $$). I’m probably gonna skip this one.

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Foxi4 said:
Oh, I'm sure it's excellent, with a good enough FPGA they can make an exact replica of the original chip, but it's still a replica. I don't roll with those superpowered replicas, my archival instinct tells me to just use the original hardware.

I own an SD2SNES, a Framemeister, 2 Super Famicoms, 1 Super Famicom Jr. (modded for S-Vid and RGB), and I still bought the Super NT. It’s friggin awesome.

Foxi4 · Oct 16, 2018

Hanafuda said:
Same here and I was a gaming consumer back then. The Genesis blew the doors off the NES on graphics, but when the SNES came out I stopped paying attention to the Sega commercials.

I bought the Super NT and can vouch for Analogue’s quality. But I’d rather see a new run of the NT Mini built with a Super NT style plastic shell (instead of milled aluminum $$). I’m probably gonna skip this one.

I own an SD2SNES, a Framemeister, 2 Super Famicoms, 1 Super Famicom Jr. (modded for S-Vid and RGB), and I still bought the Super NT. It’s friggin awesome.

It's really a personal preference, nothing else. I just like the originals better, I even go out of my way to keep them vanilla if I can.

Minox · Oct 16, 2018

TyBlood13 said:
This is made by the same people as the NT and is also an FPGA, so it isn't emulation. Also SNES to Genesis adapters are notoriously bad.

It's still emulation though. It's just emulating the hardware rather than emulating the results of running the software.

johnk · Oct 16, 2018

It isn't emulating the hardware, that does emulators ;-) the hardware is with an FPGA complete rebuild, that means it runs on the orig. Chipsets. You can rebuild the hardware with an FPGA, the timming and all hardware based things run like on the orig. Hardware. Emulation is that the games run on a different hardware only with emulation, that is a big difference!

FateForWindows · Oct 16, 2018

TyBlood13 said:
is also an FPGA, so it isn't emulation.

Uh, yes it is. FPGA-based consoles are just another form of emulation. Sure, it does replicate the architecture, but you still have to program all of that in a programming langauge, such as the Verilog that Kevtris uses.

Foxi4 · Oct 16, 2018

johnk said:
It isn't emulating the hardware, that does emulators ;-) the hardware is with an FPGA complete rebuild, that means it runs on the orig. Chipsets. You can rebuild the hardware with an FPGA, the timming and all hardware based things run like on the orig. Hardware. Emulation is that the games run on a different hardware only with emulation, that is a big difference!

You don't seem to be familiar with what an FPGA (field-programmable gate array) is. It's an integrated circuit which uses a collection of gates that you can program to be open or closed. By doing so you can recreate physical circuits with software. It's a chip that emulates another chip, which makes it hardware emulation. This is different from software emulation which recompiles or interprets code in order to run it on a different machine. Still, it's emulation, just a different approach.

Minox · Oct 16, 2018

johnk said:
It isn't emulating the hardware, that does emulators ;-) the hardware is with an FPGA complete rebuild, that means it runs on the orig. Chipsets. You can rebuild the hardware with an FPGA, the timming and all hardware based things run like on the orig. Hardware. Emulation is that the games run on a different hardware only with emulation, that is a big difference!

It is emulating the hardware though by utilizing the logic gates of the Field-Programmable Gate Array to emulate the original electrical and logical functionality of the chips inside of the console. The difference lies in this kind of emulation being code running upon physically programmed hardware rather than code running on code running on a micro-processor.

FateForWindows · Oct 16, 2018

johnk said:
It isn't emulating the hardware, that does emulators ;-) the hardware is with an FPGA complete rebuild, that means it runs on the orig. Chipsets. You can rebuild the hardware with an FPGA, the timming and all hardware based things run like on the orig. Hardware. Emulation is that the games run on a different hardware only with emulation, that is a big difference!

Sorry to sorta double post (Foxi posted before me EDIT and Minox) but yes, this is technically a form of emulation often referred to as "hardware emulation" vs. "software emulation". You still have to program it to act like the original and even then contrary to popular belief the Super NT actually runs slightly slower than the original console to prevent screen tearing on some TVs that suffer from it with the slightly higher than normal NTSC output framerate of the machine (60.08 Hz vs 59.94 Hz).

johnk · Oct 16, 2018

I know what an FPGA is NAND NOR and so on. But it isn't an emulation that is clear! That is the wrong definition.

FateForWindows · Oct 16, 2018

johnk said:
I know what an FPGA is NAND NOR and so on. But it isn't an emulation that is clear! That is the wrong definition.

And that statement is wrong, too. Just like software emulation, you have to write the code for the FPGA to be able to emulate the hardware. Also, they've had to supply software updates in the past to correct emulation inaccuracies, like one which made one game unplayable (Rendering Ranger R2, really good game btw).

Minox · Oct 16, 2018

johnk said:
I know what an FPGA is NAND NOR and so on. But it isn't an emulation that is clear! That is the wrong definition.

What you're describing are logic gates. A Field-Programmable Gate Array is a huge set of programmable gates that when flashed forms logic gates that perform programmed actions. By then programming the gates to mimic the physical chips on a system you get something that emulates the behavior, but does so physically much like the original chips unlike software emulation.

Foxi4 · Oct 16, 2018

FateForWindows said:
Sorry to sorta double post (Foxi posted before me EDIT and Minox) but yes, this is technically a form of emulation often referred to as "hardware emulation" vs. "software emulation". You still have to program it to act like the original and even then contrary to popular belief the Super NT actually runs slightly slower than the original console to prevent screen tearing on some TVs that suffer from it with the slightly higher than normal NTSC output framerate of the machine (60.08 Hz vs 59.94 Hz).

Emulation is, unfortunately, imperfect - there are many factors that come into play when it comes to signal integrity and timing, you have to account for the physical properties of the materials, hence the predictable downclock. It's pretty hard to map an entire circuit into code and then implement it perfectly. Even if it's 1:1, you have to make adjustments on account of various delays caused simply by the resistance of real-life components which is not present in software. It's impressive that they managed at all, a custom proprietary chip is hard to deal with. FPGA's are next-level when it comes to emulation, provided you have all the documentation for the chip you're trying to mimic, x-rays and so on.

Demonofelru · Oct 17, 2018

I've always thought this following explains things very well. Mind you it is a write up by the amazing Higan developer, so bias can't be discounted, but they seem to keep it in check and be more than fair. I love my Super NT, but to say it's perfect is just false. I myself have found at least one graphical glitch that I believe still persists the latest firmware. Admittedly I haven't checked in quite a while if there was an update, and they have been very good at fixing things quickly, which deserves kudos though.

They are a business though, some of their marketing claims are at best misleading, at worst straight up lies. I personally prefer original hardware on PVMs/BVMs, but that is certainly not for everyone, there are very real price, and convenience disadvantages. I still own a Super NT and do like it mainly for convenience, much like I 99% of the time use original carts, but still own everdrives/flashcarts.

Link: https://byuu.org/articles/fpgas-arent-magic/

CeeDee · Oct 17, 2018

Trash_Bandatcoot said:
Or you can also buy a Super NT Mini and -actuallyhavethefeelingyouhaveadecentconsole- and then you buy a Genesis adapter for it since this isn't emulation.
Boom, you don't need this.

This is made by the same people as the Super NT. For Sega games, this is the better choice over a Genesis adapter which is probably real wonky.

I'd still love a non-AtGames mini Genesis ala SNES Classic/PS1 Classic, though.
Lil' emulation box with authentic controllers would be great, this definitely has a different more premium audience.

the_randomizer · Oct 17, 2018

CeeDee said:
This is made by the same people as the Super NT. For Sega games, this is the better choice over a Genesis adapter which is probably real wonky.

I'd still love a non-AtGames mini Genesis ala SNES Classic/PS1 Classic, though.
Lil' emulation box with authentic controllers would be great, this definitely has a different more premium audience.

Sega is hiring a better company to do just that with the MD mini, though details are scarce. AtGames can suck it. I can attest to the Super NT, rock solid hardware emulation.

Hyro-Sama · Oct 17, 2018

Kourin said:
Just do a mini Sega Saturn and/or Dreamcast

Someone more technically sound can correct me here if I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure at current it's not possible to reach anything beyond Saturn . I don't even think N64 and Playstation are possible with the current available tech. I recall Kevtris saying as much when asked. I think it was in a My Life in Gaming video covering the Analogue Nt or the Super Nt.

CeeDee · Oct 17, 2018

the_randomizer said:
Sega is hiring a better company to do just that with the MD mini, though details are scarce. AtGames can suck it. I can attest to the Super NT, rock solid hardware emulation.

I thought AtGames were doing the next one? I'd actually consider buying one if it was half as good as the SNES Classic, but AtGames' ones just aren't.

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