America: everyday life vs that YouTube video

RevPokemon · Sep 7, 2017

blujay said:
No.

If I am a lawyer, and I defend another lawyer for murder, am I bad for defending them? (consider this in a court scenario)

That is a question of law but the point is whether it is okay from a moral/ethical sense

TotalInsanity4 · Sep 7, 2017

blujay said:
No.

If I am a lawyer, and I defend another lawyer for murder, am I bad for defending them? (consider this in a court scenario)

That's an entirely different scenerio; the constitution gives citizens right to legal council, while the constitution does not protect law enforcement from legal repercussions from abuse of power

Edit: and what Rev said

Deleted User · Sep 7, 2017

RevPokemon said:
That is a question of law but the point is whether it is okay from a moral/ethical sense

Just take out the courtroom sense and then tell me again.

If a cop defends another cop, regardless of their decision, I feel they are not bad because if they put them down, openly state they were wrong, it will only demean the police force.

TotalInsanity4 · Sep 7, 2017

blujay said:
Just take out the courtroom sense and then tell me again.

If a cop defends another cop, regardless of their decision, I feel they are not bad because if they put them down, openly state they were wrong, it will only demean the police force.

Now hold on, I said "protect," not defend. And by that I mean anything from staying silent about morally gray issues to straight up fudging evidence in an internal investigation

Deleted User · Sep 7, 2017

TotalInsanity4 said:
Now hold on, I said "protect," not defend. And by that I mean anything from staying silent about morally gray issues to straight up fudging evidence in an internal investigation

oh that's not ok. i misread

TotalInsanity4 · Sep 7, 2017

blujay said:
oh that's not ok. i misread

So we can agree there. Do you think it's fair to say that, in the case at least of the police officers that have shot someone and merely get paid leave, that such a thing would have to happen on a fairly regular basis in those specific departments?

Deleted User · Sep 7, 2017

TotalInsanity4 said:
So we can agree there. Do you think it's fair to say that, in the case at least of the police officers that have shot someone and merely get paid leave, that such a thing would have to happen on a fairly regular basis in those specific departments?

Can you elaborate a bit more? Do you mean that that needs to happen in those departments all the time just switching the officers?

TotalInsanity4 · Sep 7, 2017

blujay said:
Can you elaborate a bit more? Do you mean that that needs to happen in those departments all the time just switching the officers?

No, I mean cover-ups and minor penalties for major offenses

Deleted User · Sep 7, 2017

TotalInsanity4 said:
No, I mean cover-ups and minor penalties for major offenses

Honestly, I think it is unfair to give them major penalties for major crimes. They work in such a gray area, that nobody can really say for sure what went through their mind when they shot the person, except the officer themself.

TotalInsanity4 · Sep 8, 2017

blujay said:
Honestly, I think it is unfair to give them major penalties for major crimes. They work in such a gray area, that nobody can really say for sure what went through their mind when they shot the person, except the officer themself.

Except body cams

Deleted User · Sep 8, 2017

TotalInsanity4 said:
Except body cams

blujay said:
nobody can really say for sure what went through their mind

Body cams can't do that. They can just show what they registered. And certain things may only be found after hours of watching the footage, whereas the officer had 1 singular moment to do so with only one set of eyes, not multiple. Body cams don't really justify anything unless it provides evidence the offer knew everything about the situation before hand

TotalInsanity4 · Sep 8, 2017

blujay said:
Body cams can't do that. They can just show what they registered. And certain things may only be found after hours of watching the footage, whereas the officer had 1 singular moment to do so with only one set of eyes, not multiple. Body cams don't really justify anything unless it provides evidence the offer knew everything about the situation before hand

I mean, when you're in a line of work that requires rigerous training and the knowledge that there's the potential for your own death before you sign up, reactions really should be pretty consistent across the board with a given stimulus. There should realistically be no scenario in which an officer gets so panicked by an unarmed civilian that their first instinct is to drop them

Deleted User · Sep 8, 2017

TotalInsanity4 said:
I mean, when you're in a line of work that requires rigerous training and the knowledge that there's the potential for your own death before you sign up, reactions really should be pretty consistent across the board with a given stimulus. There should realistically be no scenario in which an officer gets so panicked by an unarmed civilian that their first instinct is to drop them

I see your point.

In all honesty, I'm kind of tired of arguing this today.

Don't get me wrong, I would have quit a long time ago if you hadn't been so respectful while arguing.

Quantumcat · Sep 8, 2017

blujay said:
Body cams can't do that. They can just show what they registered. And certain things may only be found after hours of watching the footage, whereas the officer had 1 singular moment to do so with only one set of eyes, not multiple. Body cams don't really justify anything unless it provides evidence the offer knew everything about the situation before hand

If they don't know what's going on, their first choice shouldn't be to shoot though.
Edit: Ninja'd better by @TotalInsanity4

TotalInsanity4 · Sep 8, 2017

blujay said:
Don't get me wrong, I would have quit a long time ago if you hadn't been so respectful while arguing.

'preciate it, man, thanks

osaka35 · Sep 8, 2017

leafeon34 said:
By now most of us have seen that viral youtube video of the nurse getting arrested.

The comments on the video seem to portray America as some fucked up place where the cops think themselves kings and this is the one occasion where their corruption was exposed. I doubt this is true, YouTube comments are not a very reliable source of information.

But I've never been to America before. What do people who actually live in America have to say about this incident?

Remember to keep the comments civilised.

The standards aren't the highest. Just be fit and be able to know how to enforce the law. And even those aren't exactly enforced if they're really hurting for new hires. That attracts mainly two kinds of people. People who want to serve and protect, and people who want the power. You're never sure which is which, because it's hard to keep cops. It's a hard job.

So the cops will try and protect their own because they never know when the next person they pull over is going to pull a gun on them. From the civilian's perspective, you never know if the cop talking to you is the person who wants to help people, or the bully in highschool who still wants to give people swirlies. Only instead of sticking their head in toilets and flushing, they want to pull their guns and be a badass. Or they're in way over their head, under-trained and unprepared, and shoot because they get scared. Same result.

It's bad here. We keep our nose clean because we don't want to die at the hands of our police officers. It's bad.

TotalInsanity4 · Sep 8, 2017

osaka35 said:
The standards aren't the highest. Just be fit and be able to know how to enforce the law. That attracts mainly two kinds of people. People who want to serve and protect, and people who want the power. You're never sure which is which, because it's hard to keep cops. It's a hard job. So they try and protect their own because you never know when the next person you're going to pull over is going to pull a gun on you. From the civilian's perspective, you never know if the cop talking to you is the person who wants to help people, or the bully in highschool who still wants to give people swirlies. Only instead of sticking their head in toilets and flushing, they want to pull their gun and be a badass.

It's bad here. We keep our nose clean because we don't want to die at the hands of our police officers. It's bad.

That's honestly one of the best analysis I've ever read on the subject

Quantumcat · Sep 8, 2017

osaka35 said:
you never know when the next person you're going to pull over is going to pull a gun on you.

Exactly

Deleted User · Sep 8, 2017

osaka35 said:
The standards aren't the highest. Just be fit and be able to know how to enforce the law. And even those aren't exactly enforced if they're really hurting for new hires. That attracts mainly two kinds of people. People who want to serve and protect, and people who want the power. You're never sure which is which, because it's hard to keep cops. It's a hard job. So they try and protect their own because you never know when the next person you're going to pull over is going to pull a gun on you. From the civilian's perspective, you never know if the cop talking to you is the person who wants to help people, or the bully in highschool who still wants to give people swirlies. Only instead of sticking their head in toilets and flushing, they want to pull their gun and be a badass.

It's bad here. We keep our nose clean because we don't want to die at the hands of our police officers. It's bad.

shit this was my opinion all along i just can't express myself D:

rileysrjay · Sep 8, 2017

I guess part of it depends where you live. Here in small town north GA it's pretty quiet and the city cops are a bunch of good ol boys who don't really do anything. I have a lot of respect for the county ones though, we have a lot of meth heads and Marijuana growers in our county and they do a lot of drug busts and risk their lives everyday. But when it comes to Atlanta area, it's a different story. I'm scared for my life sometimes down there from both criminals and cops. Granted down there you probably see a lot more action as a cop and deal with some pretty messed up stuff. Probably the higher crime rate and higher likelihood of getting shot or attacked as a cop there make cops more "jumpy" or "trigger happy"/ likely to use their gun since they really don't know what they're walking into. Still not a good excuse for the gun violence from cops like mentioned earlier in the thread though. Also acting like the entire country is like the areas where cop violence is a thing is a bunch of crap.

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