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It sure has fooled me with rhetoric equating Russia as the Great Satan to infallibly righteous, holy, and divine deity of US democracy. There is a secular religion in the US that extols and worships democracy above all else.
What is a legal war and invasion? Ought it ever be considered legal to cause mass suffering through military engagement? Are not the US and other allies guilty of prolonging this suffering among Ukrainians and Russians?
I attended high school with Ukrainian and Russian foreign exchange students. I do not support perpetuating their suffering, regardless of the justifications I'm being fed by media. If Iraq and Afghanistan were mistakes, why repeat them through Ukraine and Russia?
Let's talk about Iraq and Afghanistan - a big foreign power invaded a small nation(s) and kills civilians with questionable legal/moral backing
Sound familiar? Yes that's exactly what Russia is doing right now in Ukraine
And the surefire way to prolong the suffering of the Ukrainian people is to allow the Russians to repeat what they did in Bucha throughout the entire country, torture, rape, extrajudicial killings
Haha - Pot/Kettle/Black - irony is lost on you, USA invaded Iraq and Afghanistan (both sovereign nations) for over 20+ years. It's also been involved in other wars and covert ops throughout the world in my lifetime such as Vietnam, Grenada, Somalia, Serbia/Kosovo, Libya, Syria etc....
I don't care about Russia or Ukraine- read my post above.
What I do care about is sending another country (NON NATO Member) billions of tax payers money and funding their forces, when we as a country are struggling already with high inflation, low public pay (not inline with inflation), high prices in the shops and bills. We didn't have the money or means to deal with our own homeless yet we can import, house and fund illegal migrants, etc.
Also USA is in NO position to preach to others when it is guilty of the exact same thing it scorns other for. One thing is for sure - Mr Putin is not listening to you, Zelenski is a corrupt dictator and will continue to beg for your money and him and his mates will continue to syphon it off into their own accounts and get rich at your own tax payers expense. The people in Ukraine will have a dictator in charge of them no matter what, and the Russian speaking and loving people of Donbas and Crimea will not need to worry about Ukrainians bombing or killing them - like they have been doing for the past 8 years. Infact here's one of many stories from Human Rights watch that dates back to 2014, for that very thing.
I don't care about Russia or Ukraine- read my post above.
What I do care about is sending another country (NON NATO Member) billions of tax payers money and funding their forces, when we as a country are struggling already with high inflation, low public pay (not inline with inflation), high prices in the shops and bills. We didn't have the money or means to deal with our own homeless yet we can import, house and fund illegal migrants, etc.
Also USA is in NO position to preach to others when it is guilty of the exact same thing it scorns other for. One thing is for sure - Mr Putin is not listening to you, Zelenski is a corrupt dictator and will continue to beg for your money and him and his mates will continue to syphon it off into their own accounts and get rich at your own tax payers expense. The people in Ukraine will have a dictator in charge of them no matter what, and the Russian speaking and loving people of Donbas and Crimea will not need to worry about Ukrainians bombing or killing them - like they have been doing for the past 8 years.
That money is much better spent aiding our allies and protecting our most core strategic interests in the heart of Europe than it would ever be spent here - useless social services, welfare state, propping up useless government departments and giving contracts to politicians buddies
And maybe the most important aspect of all for those who don't care about civilians or Ukrainians
The amount of learning our military is gaining conducting modern wars through shared intelligence gathering is giving the US military industrial complex much needed experience we may need for a future war on a larger scale
Consider our biggest rival China for instance has almost no military leadership with active combat experience - the last war they fought being a tiny border skirmish with Vietnam
So advancing core strategic interests, helping defend the sovereignty of our ally, humanitarian considerations, a relatively cheap war, funding our own military industrial complex (aka US jobs), and gaining valuable military and intel experience for in some cases unproven tech
Continuing to fund our ally Ukraine is an absolute no brainer to anybody but the most loyal putinbot
That money is much better spent aiding our allies and protecting our most core strategic interests in the heart of Europe than it would ever be spent here - useless social services, welfare state, propping up useless government departments and giving contracts to politicians buddies
And maybe the most important aspect of all for those who don't care about civilians or Ukrainians
The amount of learning our military is gaining conducting modern wars through shared intelligence gathering is giving the US military industrial complex much needed experience we may need for a future war on a larger scale
Consider our biggest rival China for instance has almost no military leadership with active combat experience - the last war they fought being a tiny border skirmish with Vietnam
So advancing core strategic interests, helping defend the sovereignty of our ally, humanitarian considerations, a relatively cheap war, funding our own military industrial complex (aka US jobs), and gaining valuable military and intel experience for in some cases unproven tech
Continuing to fund our ally Ukraine is an absolute no brainer to anybody but the most loyal putinbot
You sound like a war monger, also Ukraine is not an Ally of US or the west, it never was and it never paid a single cent/penny into NATO or the US treasury. A vast amount of it's people are pro-Russian and the rest have long ties with Russia and share a common bond with them. If USA had invaded Russia, you can bet Ukraine would have been on Russia's side as they only care about USA just now because you are funding them with the hard working people's taxes. For the average person on the street in Ukraine, when this war is over they will still have a dictator in charge of them and life will be just as shit as it was before the war. Zelensky and his mates will be richer and have fled to the west, Arms companies and those with shares in them will be richer, and those compainies that have done deals in the shadows to rebuild Ukraine will be richer.
Russia isn't going anywhere - it doesn't need to worry about supply issues, manpower, the media - this is why it will win and already has in Ukraine.
The best thing for the USA is to stop sending all your jobs and tech to china, stop importing cheap goods and steel from them, forget this net zero global warming crap and to kick out all your illegals and stop giiving them benefits and housing. The reason China is rising is because you sent them all your jobs and technical knowledge so that your rich could become richer, the average man lost out on lower wages, worse job prospects, loss of rights etc, it's easy to blame others for this - but at some point you are going to face the reality that China will be the worlds No1 super power and USA will be second. You should start by getting rid of those two muppets you have in the whitehouse, Bumbling Brain Dead Biden, and "Where the fuck is Harris?".
You sound like a war monger, also Ukraine is not an Ally of US or the west, it never was and it never paid a single cent/penny into NATO or the US treasury. A vast amount of it's people are pro-Russian and the rest have long ties with Russia and share a common bond with them. If USA had invaded Russia, you can bet Ukraine would have been on Russia's side as they only care about USA just now because you are funding them with the hard working people's taxes. For the average person on the street in Ukraine, when this war is over they will still have a ditator in charge of them and life will be just as shit as it was before the war. Zelensky and his mates will be richer and have fled to the west, Arms companies and those with shares in them will be richer, and those compainies that have done deals in the shadows to rebuild Ukraine will be richer.
Russia isn't going anywhere - it doesn't need to worry about supply issues, manpower, the media - this is why it will win and already has in Ukraine.
The best thing for the USA is to stop sending all your jobs and tech to china, stop importing cheap goods and steel from them, forget this net zero global warming crap and to kick out all your illegals and stop giiving them benefits and housing. The reason China is rising is because you sent them all your jobs and technical knowledge so that your rich could become richer, the average man lost out of lower wages, worse job prospects, loss of rights etc, it's easy to blame others for this - but at some point you are going to face the reality that China will be the worlds No1 super power and USA will be second. You should start by getting rid of those two muppets you have in the whitehouse, Bumbling Brain Dead Biden, and "Where the fuck is Harris?".
Yes that's what the media told you, however there's a huge amount of support for Russia in many parts of Ukraine, especially in the Crimea and Donbas regions as well as those other regions that border Russia. I don't expect you to know this because let's face it most Americans don't know much about geography or anything that isn't on the news.
Oh it's entirely believable that Putin is a power-hungry sociopath willing to sacrifice any number of Russians and Ukrainians for his own corrupt, small-minded goals. It's not believable that an ex-KGB agent would invade a neighboring country out of a sense of altruism.
You have proven that you are willing to believe anything except for the facts and truth. Putin is a product of communism. If he is a power-hungry sociopath, he learned it from one of the left's biggest heroes, the architect of the Holomodor, Joseph Stalin.
Able-bodied Ukrainians naturally have a desire to defend their homeland from imperialist invaders. You, on the other hand, want to make the disingenuous claim that giving a warmonger what he wants will fix everything, rather than just leading to even more war. Ukraine did not start this fight, but with the support of the US and Europe they'll sure as hell have everything they need to end it. Much to your dismay, I'm sure.
The left was completely silent from 2014-2019 when Petro Poroshenko was bombing the Donbas region. Those people were defending their homeland too, so don't pretend you care about the Ukrainian people now.
The sooner Russia's military is driven back to their own gods-forsaken country, the sooner Putin's total and utter defeat is realized. Anyone like you, who supports concessions to a ruthless dictator, falls firmly into the category of pro-imperialism and pro-war. Fence-sitting is not an option when one side is clearly in the wrong and understands only the language of violence.
Peace can only be attained at the negotiating table. Do not gaslight me into thinking war = peace. The only war mongers are those who send money and weapons into a war zone. The only people who are benefiting are the uniparty, military industrial complex and the central bankers who are playing both sides. You are just an ignorant rube on a forum doing what the media tells you to do.
the sheer amount of stupid coming outta trader's mouth right now... lol Putin says he wants the land back from before it was divided up in the past. he's been trying since he got in. the war happened because the world allowed him to take some of ukraines land already but he's still trying for more.(crimea) He wants that farmland and those those oil fields. but most importantly he's delusional and an aggressive man child.
he started this more than 8 years ago. it's about time we all woke up and started resisting
You've lost the argument when your opening line is a personal attack.
Ukraine has been in a civil war since their color revolution ousted a freely elected president in 2014. Ever since, the Ukrainian government has been bombing the Donbas region. Learn some history, especially history you were alive to see. The internet is your friend.
You have proven that you are willing to believe anything except for the facts and truth. Putin is a product of communism. If he is a power-hungry sociopath, he learned it from one of the left's biggest heroes, the architect of the Holomodor, Joseph Stalin.
The left was completely silent from 2014-2019 when Petro Poroshenko was bombing the Donbas region. Those people were defending their homeland too, so don't pretend you care about the Ukrainian people now.
Can't you have a conversation without course language and flaming other people? Learn to control your emotions.
Peace can only be attained at the negotiating table. Do not gaslight me into thinking war = peace. The only war mongers are those who send money and weapons into a war zone. The only people who are benefiting are the uniparty, military industrial complex and the central bankers who are playing both sides. You are just an ignorant rube on a forum doing what the media tells you to do.
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You've lost the argument when your opening line is a personal attack.
Ukraine has been in a civil war since their color revolution ousted a freely elected president in 2014. Ever since, the Ukrainian government has been bombing the Donbas region. Learn some history, especially history you were alive to see. The internet is your friend.
Putin is only a product of the USSR in that he benefits from its systematic crippling of Russian human rights and creating a populace used to living with the state's foot squarely on its back
Other than that he is a dictator like any other - and clearly nowhere nearly as bad as Stalin
Really if Putin stepped down after the first 10 years he would have had a great track record and had been remembered in Russia as a great statesman for years to come - unfortunately this is what happens to dictators, they rarely go over 10 years without corrupting absolutely
Mao and Hitler too, if those guys stepped down before totally going insane their nations would have been a lot better off
Putin is only a product of the USSR in that he benefits from its systematic crippling of Russian human rights and creating a populace used to living with the state's foot squarely on its back
Other than that he is a dictator like any other - and clearly nowhere nearly as bad as Stalin
Really if Putin stepped down after the first 10 years he would have had a great track record and had been remembered in Russia as a great statesman for years to come - unfortunately this is what happens to dictators, they rarely go over 10 years without corrupting absolutely
Mao and Hitler too, if those guys stepped down before totally going insane their nations would have been a lot better off
Russia warned the west for decades not to expand NATO into it's former territories, and yet that's exactly what the west did. When the legally voted in Ukraine president (Viktor Yanukovych) was outsted and replaced in 2014 by a western backed puppet then what did you expect would be the result? If you had any sense you would know that it's not wise to keep prodding a sleeping bear, Instead of antagonising you could have been partners and traded with each other - but no USA want's to rule the world and destroy any other country that it feels is a threat to that, that's why you have a boner over China just now.
Russia warned the west for decades not to expand NATO into it's former territories, and yet that's exactly what the west did. When the legally voted in Ukraine president (Viktor Yanukovych) was outsted and replaced in 2014 by a western backed puppet then what did you expect would be the result? If you had any sense you would know that it's not wise to keep prodding a sleeping bear, Instead of antagonising you could have been partners and traded with each other - but no USA want's to rule the world and destroy any other country that it feels is a threat to that, that's why you have a boner over China just now.
Russia is more of a sleeping raccoon at this point, but I can agree with some of what you say
Truthfully tho the state can barely defend its last strategic interests and this war has been a wake up call that the USSR is dead and Russia is at besta regional power
Russia is more of a sleeping raccoon at this point, but I can agree with some of what you say
Truthfully tho the state can barely defend its last strategic interests and this war has been a wake up call that the USSR is dead and Russia is at besta regional power
I take it you've never been in a war, so let me point some stuff out to you.
1: How many people (men) of fighting age and are able to fight on the frontline (not with ailments, and reasonable fitness) are left in Ukraine and are motivated to fight for Ukraine? (how many have already been killed or fled the country?).
2: Logistics - out of the above troops, how many are required in a support role to supply front line troops with food, ammo, first aid, mobiisation, fixing equipment etc - it's far more than you think and makes up the vast amount of troops.
3: Out of the above left over frontline fighters, how many are war weary, have things like trenchfoot or diseases/ailments from poor food, conditions, lack of sleep and a normal life etc?
4: Out of those remaining troops how many are trained to use USA weapon systems such as missile systems tanks etc - not many at all.
The truth is that this is a war of attrition at this point, Russia has an unlimited supply of supplies, good infrastructure, supply chain, troops it can rotate for fresh ones to replace the sick and weary etc. Can make it's own equipment, send some back to Russia to be repaired if needed......it can last a very long time, decades if needed, whereas Ukrainian troops are just in the meat grinder, with less troops every day and more weary as time goes on, led by donkeys that are stealing their supplies. The women and children have fled the country and are leading new lives and lots will not return to Ukraine the longer time goes by, with only the old and unfit left over to rebuild what's going to be left ito fight for soon? Most men will be dead or war weary, kids and wives will have moved on, Russia will still have loads of former Ukraine regions.
If you think the west or Ukraine can win this you are just fooling yourself, giving Ukraine weapons and janky old tanks etc, is just like throwing money away and prolonging the suffering of the people in Ukraine.
I take it you've never been in a war, so let me point some stuff out to you.
1: How many people (men) of fighting age and are able to fight on the forntline (not with ailments, and reasonable fitness) are left in Ukraine and are motivated to fight for Ukraine? (how many have already been killed or fled the country?).
2: Logistics - out of the above troops, how many are required in a support role to supply front line troops with food, ammo, first aid, mobiisation, fixing equipment etc - it's far more than you think and makes up the vast amount of troops.
3: Out of the above left over frontline fighters, how many are war weary, have things like trenchfoot or diseases/ailments from poor food, conditions, lack of sleep and a normal life etc?
4: Out of those remaining troops how many are trained to use USA weapon systems such as missile systems tanks etc - not many at all.
The truth is that this is a war of attrition at this point, Russia has an unlimited supply of supplies, good infrastructure, supply chain, troops it can rotate for fresh ones to replace the sick and weary etc. Can make it's own equipment, send some back to Russia to be repaired if needed......it can last a very long time, decades if needed, whereas Ukrainian troops are just in the meat grinder, with less troops every day and more weary as time goes on, led by donkeys that are stealing their supplies. The women and children have fled the country and are leading new lives and lots will not return to Ukraine the longer time goes by, with only the old and unfit left over to rebuild what's going to be left ito fight for soon? Most men will be dead or war weary, kids and wives will have moved on, Russia will still have loads of former Ukraine regions.
If you think the west or Ukraine can win this you are just fooling yourself, giving Ukraine weapons and janky old tanks etc, is just like throwing money away and prolonging the suffering of the people in Ukraine.
1. Ukraine's population is about 1/3 that of Russia - and unlike Russia, Ukraine has the capability to fully mobilize (Russia is too afraid to do this due to pretending this isn't a real war and trying to keep every day gopniks happy). No shortage of young men
2. See point 1
3. See point 2
4. See point 3
If you want to see how war of attrition usually plays out between little guy with infinite motivation and foreign backing vs big imperialist super power please study Vietnam war for details (and US revolutionary war to some extent)
1. Ukraine's population is about 1/3 that of Russia - and unlike Russia, Ukraine has the capability to fully mobilize (Russia is too afraid to do this due to pretending this isn't a real war and trying to keep every day gopniks happy). No shortage of young men
2. See point 1
3. See point 2
4. See point 3
If you want to see how war of attrition usually plays out between little guy with infinite motivation and foreign backing vs big imperialist super power please study Vietnam war for details (and US revolutionary war to some extent)
If you don't want to be treated like a cowardly dipshit, stop acting like one. Do you think it would've been a just outcome for the US to annex half of Afghanistan and Iraq? Hell, if China invaded the US tomorrow, would you also recommend negotiating the surrender of twenty states to appease them?
Peace was already attained before a single mad dictator decided to shatter it. Now that Putin has deliberately and maliciously chosen to put himself in this position, he's made it clear it's all or nothing for him, so he'll get nothing.
Good, now put two and two together. Who sent money and weapons into Ukraine FIRST, genius? Why was a Western response necessary at all? And why would you prefer to allow genocide to happen instead?
Haha - Pot/Kettle/Black - irony is lost on you, USA invaded Iraq and Afghanistan (both sovereign nations) for over 20+ years. It's also been involved in other wars and covert ops throughout the world in my lifetime such as Vietnam, Grenada, Somalia, Serbia/Kosovo, Libya, Syria,Yemen etc....
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