Covid-19 vaccine

[Lacius]

Well I was about to get BioNTech when suddenly news came out that young males did get heart problems after that. I guess I´ll wait until it´s fully exermined and we really know what it does with the body. (no flat earthler here, I´m a lab assistant)

The heart issues are exceedingly rare, and even given the possibility of heart inflammation, getting vaccinated is still highly recommended.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html

 

[tabzer]

When you say that something has been proven to be "safe" and "effective", and then new side effects are revealed, it's hard to say that something was ever proven to begin with. Maybe it's easy for you because your comprehension of logic is faulty.

@Lacius

It's safe, except when it's not. It's effective, except when it's not.

 

[Lacius]

When you say that something has been proven to be "safe" and "effective", and then new side effects are revealed, it's hard to say that something was ever proven to begin with. Maybe it's easy for you because your comprehension of logic is faulty.

@Lacius

It's safe, except when it's not. It's effective, except when it's not.

"Safe" doesn't mean "absolutely 100% safe." There can be side effects. Regardless, the vaccine has been demonstrated to be safe and effective. If you want to argue it isn't, please provide evidence.

 

[Dust2dust]

Some people really don't get the laws of probability. From what I read, you have more chances of being struck by lightning while walking outside, than suffering serious side-effects from getting covid vaccine. Now would anybody rather stay inside at all times because it's too dangerous to go outside with all these lightnings striking people?

Besides, anybody who would rather not get vaccinated because they count on all the other people around them to get it, so in the end, they'll still be safe from the virus, are just parasites to society... trying to get all the benefits without providing the slightest effort.

 

[gene0915]

https://www.westernjournal.com/experts-cdc-flip-flops-covid-several-times-one-week/

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/23/hea...-meeting-on-possible-link-to-covid-shots.html

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2021/...ding-over-ivermectin-and-killing-indians.html

https://www.newswars.com/frontline-...loroquine-in-defiance-of-big-tech-censorship/

Smug people are gonna smug.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

Getting my 2nd Pfizer shot in a week. Woooo.

 

[subcon959]

This isn't directly about the vaccine but I would strongly urge everyone to watch/listen to the recent JRE podcast with Brett Weinstein (and an ICU Doctor whose name I can't remember). It's mostly about Ivermectin but there's stuff about big pharma, WHO, CDC and censorship which is relevant.

I had both shots a while back but listening to this really made me think about whether we could've avoided having to do so.

 

[Gamemaster1379]

"Safe" doesn't mean "absolutely 100% safe." There can be side effects. Regardless, the vaccine has been demonstrated to be safe and effective. If you want to argue it isn't, please provide evidence.

All vaccines are under emergency use authorization (EUA), suggesting they haven't gone through the full FDA approval process. Seems to suggest to me there hasn't been sufficient cultivation time in testing to understand the long term implications of these vaccines. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Not exactly a great situation to be in if you take the vaccine today and then find out 4 years from now a chronic, lifelong sideeffect that results from the vaccine. No real easy way to undo a 4 year old injection. At best, you'll be able to treat symptoms with supplemental medication--taking even more (possibly experimental) injections.

As someone who is young and healthy, I'd rather take my chances with COVID than a not yet approved experimental vaccine that's being shilled by every major news organization and left of center institution. Unfortunately, I will likely have to take it against my own will if I ever want to set foot on another airplane or my workplace -- as both require it.

 

[Xzi]

All vaccines are under emergency use authorization (EUA), suggesting they haven't gone through the full FDA approval process. Seems to suggest to me there hasn't been sufficient cultivation time in testing to understand the long term implications of these vaccines. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Several have applied for full authorization and it won't be long before it's granted. Then you'll just move the goalposts again.

As someone who is young and healthy, I'd rather take my chances with COVID than a not yet approved experimental vaccine that's being shilled by every major news organization and left of center institution.

So it's somehow the left's fault that right-wingers have gone off the deep-end and no longer understand or believe in science/germ theory? Nah I think it's just easier for some people to stay ignorant.

 

[gene0915]

Several have applied for full authorization and it won't be long before it's granted. Then you'll just move the goalposts again.

Speaking of moving the goalposts..............

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/walensky-cdc-jake-tapper-cnn-schools-reopening

So it's somehow the left's fault that right-wingers have gone off the deep-end and no longer understand or believe in science/germ theory? Nah I think it's just easier for some people to stay ignorant.

No, it's the lunatic left's fault for us non-sheep wanting to steer clear of this "vaccine". The more the CDC/Fauci lie and flip flop, the more I'm staying far away from it. I love how they entice you cattle with promises of million dollar jackpots, new cars, free scholarships if you take a "vaccine" for a virus with a 99% survival rate and you all jump right on it and guzzle down whatever the lügenpresse want you to parrot.

You and lacius in a nutshell:

 

[KingVamp]

The irony of that post. Please continue to tell us how much of a free thinker you are, while posting every right wing website/meme you can find.

 

[subcon959]

As an outsider it's very bizarre to read interactions between Americans lately. The way you talk to each other it's almost like you've all been radicalised. There were always opposing sides but it never felt this pervasive. I really hope there's some way to fix it that doesn't involve a catastrophic civil crisis.

I have a feeling though that this could also just be an inevitable consequence of the internet and will happen everywhere eventually.

 

[Lacius]

https://www.westernjournal.com/experts-cdc-flip-flops-covid-several-times-one-week/

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/23/hea...-meeting-on-possible-link-to-covid-shots.html

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2021/...ding-over-ivermectin-and-killing-indians.html

https://www.newswars.com/frontline-...loroquine-in-defiance-of-big-tech-censorship/

Smug people are gonna smug.

When new evidence becomes available, scientific thinking changes. That's a feature of medical science, not a bug.

All vaccines are under emergency use authorization (EUA), suggesting they haven't gone through the full FDA approval process. Seems to suggest to me there hasn't been sufficient cultivation time in testing to understand the long term implications of these vaccines. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Despite the vaccines being approved under EUA, they received extensive safety testing before that, and they've received even more extensive "testing" since then in the form of hundreds of millions of vaccinations. The vaccines have been demonstrated to be safe and effective.

Not exactly a great situation to be in if you take the vaccine today and then find out 4 years from now a chronic, lifelong sideeffect that results from the vaccine. No real easy way to undo a 4 year old injection. At best, you'll be able to treat symptoms with supplemental medication--taking even more (possibly experimental) injections.

None of the vaccine remains in the body after a few days/weeks, and the evidence suggests the likelihood of "lifelong side effects" to be near zero. However, contracting COVID-19 itself carries numerous high-severity and long-term risks, and these risks are much more likely than anything you might get with a vaccine.

As someone who is young and healthy, I'd rather take my chances with COVID than a not yet approved experimental vaccine that's being shilled by every major news organization and left of center institution. Unfortunately, I will likely have to take it against my own will if I ever want to set foot on another airplane or my workplace -- as both require it.

I cannot emphasize enough how much greater the health risks are with COVID-19 than with the vaccine. You are nearly a million times more likely to die from COVID-19 than from a COVID-19 vaccine, and that's not an exaggeration. We still have approximately 200 people dying in the United States per day from COVID-19, and virtually all of them are unvaccinated. Putting aside risk of death (lol), you are much more likely to experience serious symptoms and long-term complications with COVID-19 than with a vaccine. For example, while the vaccine does nothing to alter your DNA and leaves your body in a few days/weeks, the virus that causes COVID-19 can make irreparable changes to the DNA of some of your cells.

This all doesn't even take into account the fact that getting vaccinated helps protect other people against COVID-19. Unvaccinated people are also a breeding ground for new variants, and each new variant comes with the possibility of reducing the effectiveness of the vaccines we currently have. None of us exist in a vacuum. What you do affects everyone.

If you can medically do so, you should get the vaccine as soon as possible.

Speaking of moving the goalposts..............

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/walensky-cdc-jake-tapper-cnn-schools-reopening



No, it's the lunatic left's fault for us non-sheep wanting to steer clear of this "vaccine". The more the CDC/Fauci lie and flip flop, the more I'm staying far away from it. I love how they entice you cattle with promises of million dollar jackpots, new cars, free scholarships if you take a "vaccine" for a virus with a 99% survival rate and you all jump right on it and guzzle down whatever the lügenpresse want you to parrot.

You and lacius in a nutshell:

You say that I am "willing to die fighting for what I was told to think," but unvaccinated people are the ones dying at a rate of approximately 200 people a day in the United States because they embraced "what they were told to think."

As an outsider it's very bizarre to read interactions between Americans lately. The way you talk to each other it's almost like you've all been radicalised. There were always opposing sides but it never felt this pervasive. I really hope there's some way to fix it that doesn't involve a catastrophic civil crisis.

I have a feeling though that this could also just be an inevitable consequence of the internet and will happen everywhere eventually.

This isn't an issue of "both sides" having been "radicalized." There's one side in this country that has decided to embrace ignorance overy fact, party over democracy, conspiracy over science, dogma over reason, etc., and the rest of us are having to deal with the consequences of it.

 

[Gamemaster1379]

Several have applied for full authorization and it won't be long before it's granted. Then you'll just move the goalposts again.

So if it's so amazing, and thoroughly tested, what's the issue? Why not just circumvent the standard years long approval process put on by the FDA and just give it full authorization? Surely we wouldn't move the goalposts, or change the fundamental architecture of a system just to push a narrative, now would we?

No amount of pushing through testing allows us to any more quickly understand the long term implications of this vaccine and its side effects.

So it's somehow the left's fault that right-wingers have gone off the deep-end and no longer understand or believe in science/germ theory? Nah I think it's just easier for some people to stay ignorant

It's somehow right winger's fault that the left loves to overtake narratives, institutions like academia and media, and whatever else they can to get their way. Got it.

Despite the vaccines being approved under EUA, they received extensive safety testing before that, and they've received even more extensive "testing" since then in the form of hundreds of millions of vaccinations. The vaccines have been demonstrated to be safe and effective.

None of the vaccine remains in the body after a few days/weeks, and the evidence suggests the likelihood of "lifelong side effects" to be near zero. However, contracting COVID-19 itself carries numerous high-severity and long-term risks, and these risks are much more likely than anything you might get with a vaccine.

Is the FDA running a time machine in their lab, and pushing people into it to understand the long term effects in a short period of time?

I cannot emphasize enough how much greater the health risks are with COVID-19 than with the vaccine. You are nearly a million times more likely to die from COVID-19 than from a COVID-19 vaccine, and that's not an exaggeration.

I believe that, yes. Similarly, you are statistically less likely to be in a plane crash than a car crash. But if I had to be in one, I'd pick a car crash than a plane crash, as I'm statistically MORE likely to live through a car crash. This is just rhetoric and ultimately a meaningless one.

We still have approximately 200 people dying in the United States per day from COVID-19, and virtually all of them are unvaccinated. Putting aside risk of death (lol), you are much more likely to experience serious symptoms and long-term complications with COVID-19 than with a vaccine. For example, while the vaccine does nothing to alter your DNA and leaves your body in a few days/weeks, the virus that causes COVID-19 can make irreparable changes to the DNA of some of your cells

There's been so much misinformation passed around on COVID, that I find much of this difficult to believe. I don't consider ANY online news media source (regardless of whether it's "left" or "right") to accurately portray the effects of COVID (or frankly, many other things) because of biases and financial incentives. The same goes for academia, where many studies are never even published because their results mis-align with their funders.

This isn't exclusive to just the medical industry. Just about any industry has it. My own does. That's why I don't tend to trust any level of journalism and focus on what's going on within the private sector directly. For that reason, I talk to friends and family who are actual medical experts (I have a number of relatives who are biologists and physicians), and I've not received any of this "chronic lifelong damage" feedback about the viruses from any of them who have treated patients with it, nor had it themselves.

COVID deaths are exaggerated. Hospitals were FINANCIALLY INCENTIVIZED to call something a COVID death, and the regulations on what was ruled as one were vague. People dying of gunshot wounds being reported as COVID deaths was not irregular from hospitals because it helped them bump their numbers up to receive relief compensation from the government.

This all doesn't even take into account the fact that getting vaccinated helps protect other people against COVID-19. Unvaccinated people are also a breeding ground for new variants, and each new variant comes with the possibility of reducing the effectiveness of the vaccines we currently have. None of us exist in a vacuum. What you do affects everyone

When you can't get someone to do something you want for "their own sake", force the narrative to be "for others sake", to take the sense of control away.
In world war 2, certain regions of Europe were told to turn their lights off at night. No nightlights, no candles--even behind closed curtains. Why? You might attract the attention of bombers of an enemy nation and they could drop a bomb on your house or apartment, killing your neighbors. Because somehow, a non-tactical target in a residential district became prime bombing real estate for a little illumination.

You say that I am "willing to die fighting for what I was told to think," but unvaccinated people are the ones dying at a rate of approximately 200 people a day in the United States because they embraced "what they were told to think."

You're willing to forego standard approval processes to risk potential chronic issues in the long term.

Of these supposed 200, how many were true COVID deaths and not hit by a bus while having an early onset cold with like symptoms to COVID? Of that remainder, how many are "political extremists denying the vaccine" versus someone immunocompromised who couldn't take it in the first place or someone who lacked availability to get it in the first place? I imagine the narrative is a lot softer when numbers stop becoming inflated.

This isn't an issue of "both sides" having been "radicalized." There's one side in this country that has decided to embrace ignorance overy fact, party over democracy, conspiracy over science, dogma over reason, etc., and the rest of us are having to deal with the consequences of it.

While that's an accurate depiction of Democrats--that seems a little harsh, don't you think?

 

[Deleted User]

Doctors can give medical advice. Lacius should not.

Lacius isn't giving their own medical advise though. They are only echoing what doctors have said. And doctors have said it's safe.

For demonstration purposes, I got both shots. first shot I felt under the weather but not horrible. and it only lasted for a day. (got moderna vaccine)
I got sick for about 2 days on the second shot. But well, if you know how the immune system works, that makes sense. And then I recovered. And that was that.

No, it's the lunatic left's fault for us non-sheep wanting to steer clear of this "vaccine". The more the CDC/Fauci lie and flip flop, the more I'm staying far away from it. I love how they entice you cattle with promises of million dollar jackpots, new cars, free scholarships if you take a "vaccine" for a virus with a 99% survival rate and you all jump right on it and guzzle down whatever the lügenpresse want you to parrot.

You and lacius in a nutshell:

you know... I think this heavily reminds me something the right said... what was it...
die for the economy
That it was just a little virus, it could do no harm?
That it would just disappear next week? I mean if your conflating weeks and year(s) then you got a problem.
Also remember hydroxychloroquine? How you know the previous president and the right was pushing it as a solution? Yeah so how did that work out again? People dying? Because it didn't work? Hmmmm... perhaps it was merely for grifting.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

While that's an accurate depiction of Democrats--that seems a little harsh, don't you think?

Are you really going to criticize democrats, as a republican?
you know the party that supported a insurrection?
that's a hard sell chief. And you know your party is trying to normalize the events on jaunary 6th. One of them outright tried to say it was a fucking peaceful protest, despite the fact he was hiding during the 6th.

ffs, department of homeland security has reccently stated there is a strong chance of another january 6th esk event in august, and that there is multiple provokers who continue to spread misinformation that will result in said new event. august (or was it September, will have to double check) lines up with conspiracies about trump getting reinstated in said months. Republicans are outright supporting insurrection. Overthrowing any democracy that we have left in this busted system, and putting a ruler ontop.

 

[Lacius]

So if it's so amazing, and thoroughly tested, what's the issue? Why not just circumvent the standard years long approval process put on by the FDA and just give it full authorization? Surely we wouldn't move the goalposts, or change the fundamental architecture of a system just to push a narrative, now would we?

No amount of pushing through testing allows us to any more quickly understand the long term implications of this vaccine and its side effects.

The FDA would not have granted EUA if the vaccines had not been demonstrated to be safe and effective, particularly in relation to the risks associated with COVID-19 itself. The vaccines were thoroughly tested, and the only reason they were given EUA instead of the normal approval is because of a technicality that has historically come from an overabundance of caution, not because the vaccines somehow haven't been demonstrated to be safe and effective.

The data shows that long-term side effects are highly unlikely, but this isn't the case with COVID-19 itself.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/safety-of-vaccines.html

It's somehow right winger's fault that the left loves to overtake narratives, institutions like academia and media, and whatever else they can to get their way. Got it.

This has nothing to do with the "left" arbitrarily wanting to "get their way." This is about health, medicine, science, logic, reason, and facts. It's not the fault of those who embrace science that a significant portion of the population engages in conspiratorial and anti-scientific thinking. It also isn't the fault of those who embrace science that the former president made this a political issue. If it were up to me, it wouldn't be one.

Is the FDA running a time machine in their lab, and pushing people into it to understand the long term effects in a short period of time?

It doesn't take a time machine to have data about the vaccines being safe and effective, and it doesn't take a time machine to understand how the vaccines are likely to affect the human body.

The scientific evidence overwhelmingly shows that any significant risk of serious harm is only associated with COVID-19, not the vaccines. To argue that the vaccines are at all riskier or more dangerous than COVID-19 is conspiratorial and anti-scientific nonsense. You are literally about a million times more likely to die from COVID-19 than a vaccine.

I believe that, yes. Similarly, you are statistically less likely to be in a plane crash than a car crash. But if I had to be in one, I'd pick a car crash than a plane crash, as I'm statistically MORE likely to live through a car crash. This is just rhetoric and ultimately a meaningless one.

This analogy is a mess, since actually contracting COVID-19 is analogous with car crash when it comes to the odds of crashing, but it's analogous with a plane crash when it comes to the odds of surviving if there's a crash. If your goal isn't to experience severe symptoms or die, then you should get vaccinated. To use your mess of an analogy, get on a plane if you can choose how to travel (plane = vaccine), but you should choose a car crash if you get to choose how you want to crash (car crash = vaccine).

Your odds of experiencing severe symptoms, long-term symptoms, or death are exceedingly higher contracting COVID-19 than getting vaccinated. These are facts, not "meaningless rhetoric." It is highly recommended that everyone get vaccinated as soon as possible if they are medically able to do so. If you want to believe that the vaccine is more dangerous than the odds of contracting COVID-19 and suffering serious effects, you're free to do so, but don't pretending it's anything other than conspiratorial anti-scientific nonsense, because that is what it is.

There's been so much misinformation passed around on COVID, that I find much of this difficult to believe. I don't consider ANY online news media source (regardless of whether it's "left" or "right") to accurately portray the effects of COVID (or frankly, many other things) because of biases and financial incentives. The same goes for academia, where many studies are never even published because their results mis-align with their funders.

This isn't exclusive to just the medical industry. Just about any industry has it. My own does. That's why I don't tend to trust any level of journalism and focus on what's going on within the private sector directly. For that reason, I talk to friends and family who are actual medical experts (I have a number of relatives who are biologists and physicians), and I've not received any of this "chronic lifelong damage" feedback about the viruses from any of them who have treated patients with it, nor had it themselves.

COVID deaths are exaggerated. Hospitals were FINANCIALLY INCENTIVIZED to call something a COVID death, and the regulations on what was ruled as one were vague. People dying of gunshot wounds being reported as COVID deaths was not irregular from hospitals because it helped them bump their numbers up to receive relief compensation from the government.

Everything I said about COVID-19 in my previous post is verifiably correct. If you are going to refuse to believe it because of conspiratorial thinking, then there isn't much I can do about it.

Approximately 605,000 Americans have died of COVID-19, with approximately 166 Americans dying per day over the last seven days. Before the vaccine, that makes the mortality rate associated with COVID-19 approximately 1% when you include asymptomatic people. In contrast, I'm only aware of one death associated with COVID-19 vaccination, and that out of hundreds of millions of vaccines. It was also a specific side-effect that we've now mitigated.

If you don't want to get vaccinated, that is your choice, but scientifically and mathematically, the right decision is to get vaccinated as soon as possible, and that's not even taking into account your ability to get infected with COVID-19 and spread it to others.

When you can't get someone to do something you want for "their own sake", force the narrative to be "for others sake", to take the sense of control away.
In world war 2, certain regions of Europe were told to turn their lights off at night. No nightlights, no candles--even behind closed curtains. Why? You might attract the attention of bombers of an enemy nation and they could drop a bomb on your house or apartment, killing your neighbors. Because somehow, a non-tactical target in a residential district became prime bombing real estate for a little illumination.

COVID-19 is an infectious disease. We've had vaccines against infectious diseases for centuries, and it has been understood for centuries that vaccination isn't just about you; it's also about the people around you whom you could potentially spread disease to. It's also about not risking the development of a new variant that's less affected by the vaccines.

If you want to believe that your personal vaccination decision doesn't affect others around you, feel free to do so, but let's not pretend it isn't more anti-scientific conspiratorial garbage. We know how herd immunity works.

You're willing to forego standard approval processes to risk potential chronic issues in the long term.

At its peak, the disease was killing over 3,300 Americans each day. The vaccine was demonstrated to be safe and effective, and it was approved for EUA because it could save thousands of lives, if not more.

There is no evidence the vaccines are unsafe or cause significant risk of long-term chronic issues. The vaccine is fully gone from your body a few days/weeks after the vaccination, and it doesn't make significant alterations to your body aside from training your immune system. Any side-effects that might occur are likely to occur within six weeks of the last dose. The same cannot be said about COVID-19.

Of these supposed 200, how many were true COVID deaths and not hit by a bus while having an early onset cold with like symptoms to COVID? Of that remainder, how many are "political extremists denying the vaccine" versus someone immunocompromised who couldn't take it in the first place or someone who lacked availability to get it in the first place? I imagine the narrative is a lot softer when numbers stop becoming inflated.

Zero COVID-19 deaths were people "hit by a bus" after having early onset COVID-19 symptoms. All of the COVID-19 deaths in the last week were from people who died as a direct consequence of having COVID-19. Approximately 99-100% (the average is something like 99.2%, with some areas being 100%) of COVID-19 deaths in the last week were people who were unvaccinated. The overwhelming majority of these deaths were people who could have been vaccinated but weren't (a majority of those hospitalized with COVID-19 in this country express regret that the didn't get vaccinated when they could have), and I'm unaware of any significant lack of vaccine availability anywhere in the United States at this time. Anyone who wants to get vaccinated in this country could probably do so today.

You're spouting off conspiratorial and unsubstantiated nonsense. The data is clear. You should get vaccinated, for yourself and for others.

While that's an accurate depiction of Democrats--that seems a little harsh, don't you think?

The anti-vaxxers, who are predominantly conservative in their political ideology, are the ones who have decided to embrace ignorance overy fact, party over democracy, conspiracy over science, dogma over reason, etc. The same goes for the Q-anon believers, the believers in widespread election fraud in the 2020 election, those who believe climate change is a myth, those who believe evolution is a myth, etc. This is a problem with the Republican Party, not the Democratic Party.

 

[tabzer]

Lacius isn't giving their own medical advise though. They are only echoing what doctors have said. And doctors have said it's safe.

He is choosing agency. Not all doctors say the same thing. Some doctor's have said it's safe, and after, some doctor's have said that it has done unexpected things. If you die in two years, we will play damage control and assume no connection to the vaccine.

 

[gene0915]

When new evidence becomes available, scientific thinking changes. That's a feature of medical science, not a bug.

That's called flip flopping....something liberals excel at. Which scientists are you listening to? The ones that are offering million dollar lottery payouts if you get the covid "vaccine" or the scientists that promoted vitamin D, ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine?

BTW, still waiting on you to show me an instance of a republican being a hypocrite! LULZ!

Despite the vaccines being approved under EUA, they received extensive safety testing before that, and they've received even more extensive "testing" since then in the form of hundreds of millions of vaccinations. The vaccines have been demonstrated to be safe and effective.

Extensive safety testing? HAHAHAH Guess they didn't catch the blood clots and enlarged heart problems in that extensive safety test. And the "more extensive testing".... that's what you sheep are doing for them now. And demonstrated to be safe? BY WHO? Dr. Bill Gates? Flip flopping Fauci the fraudster? HAHAHAHA

None of the vaccine remains in the body after a few days/weeks, and the evidence suggests the likelihood of "lifelong side effects" to be near zero.

Says who? How exactly did somebody calculate "lifelong side effects being near zero" at this stage of the game? They have a time machine?

cannot emphasize enough how much greater the health risks are with COVID-19 than with the vaccine. You are nearly a million times more likely to die from COVID-19 than from a COVID-19 vaccine, and that's not an exaggeration. We still have approximately 200 people dying in the United States per day from COVID-19, and virtually all of them are unvaccinated. Putting aside risk of death (lol), you are much more likely to experience serious symptoms and long-term complications with COVID-19 than with a vaccine.

Lots to unpack........ lets go:

70% of people that get AND BEAT BACK COVID suffer ZERO symptoms...... the "vaccine" would have done what exactly for that group?

Million times more likely to die from covid-1984 than the vaccine..... tell that to the family of Jacob Clynick. 13 year old boy died days after 2nd shot from an enlarged heart..........which is a known side effect from the "vaccine". Other families for you to contact and let them know the vaccine is safe are the parents of Kassidi Kurill and Sara Stickles and on and on and on. People that are all dead because they were sheep and got the "vaccine".

You want to play the numbers game....... ok.....

200+ people die every day from diabetes
400+ people die every day from strokes
roughly 500 people die every day from accidents
1,600+ people die every day from cancer
1,800+ people die every day from heart disease

and covid deaths in the USA..... who knows. Hospitals lie about people dying from covid and the CDC and their "scientists" lie and flip flop on an hourly basis so I don't know how any sane person can look to them for concrete truth and solid answers. Well..... I know at least 2 people on here that can and do.

This all doesn't even take into account the fact that getting vaccinated helps protect other people against COVID-19. Unvaccinated people are also a breeding ground for new variants, and each new variant comes with the possibility of reducing the effectiveness of the vaccines we currently have. None of us exist in a vacuum. What you do affects everyone.

Getting vaccinated does nothing to protect others from covid-1984. For folks that have been injected with the mystery goo, they can still be carriers. still get covid and still die from it. Me not getting vaccinated has zero impact on you or anyone else.

If you can medically do so, you should get the vaccine as soon as possible.

I graduated from the same medical school as lacius.... if you aren't a sheep, no way on God's green earth you should get this "vaccine".

Lacius isn't giving their own medical advise though. They are only echoing what doctors have said. And doctors have said it's safe.

Yes, I agree that lacius is a parrot. Other doctors (who aren't flip flopping liars) have said to stay far away from this "vaccine". But since the media is controlled by insane, communist liberals..... there is only 1 point of views. Theirs.

Also remember hydroxychloroquine? How you know the previous president and the right was pushing it as a solution? Yeah so how did that work out again? People dying? Because it didn't work? Hmmmm... perhaps it was merely for grifting.

Do some reading up about how totally flawed that hydroxychloroquine study was. It DOES work and that information was suppressed. That is why those doctors went public on capital hill to blast the media for withholding the truth.

you know the party that supported a insurrection?

HAHAHA, now I know you have your head in the sand with lacius and xzi!!! The insurrection where the police officers OPENED THE DOORS AND INVITED IN THE PROTESTORS? Protestors which were caught on film changing out of their anti-fa rags to look like Trump supporters? Stop watching wall to wall MSNBC/CNN/Faux. Believe it or not, there are two sides to every story. Your parents and society have failed you.

 

[Lacius]

He is choosing agency. Not all doctors say the same thing. Some doctor's have said it's safe, and after, some doctor's have said that it has done unexpected things. If you die in two years, we will play damage control and assume no connection to the vaccine.

All of the evidence suggests the vaccines are safe and effective. None of the evidence suggests the vaccines are not safe and effective. Every reputable medical group that I'm aware of recommends vaccination. Please show me evidence the vaccines are not safe and effective. Please show me a reputable medical group that does not recommend vaccination.

That's called flip flopping

I'd rather use a system with the findings that comport with evidence and admits when it's wrong. I can't think of a system that's more intellectually honest.

The ones that are offering million dollar lottery payouts if you get the covid "vaccine"

I'm not aware of any "scientists" doing the vaccine lottery. I believe governments are doing that. I also see nothing wrong with incentivizing vaccination.

or the scientists that promoted vitamin D, ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine?

I'm unaware of any reputable scientists or medical groups promoting the use of these things. If I remember right, the idiotic former president and the right-wing media were the ones promoting pseudoscientific nonsense like hydroxychloroquine. Thank you for the reminder.

BTW, still waiting on you to show me an instance of a republican being a hypocrite! LULZ!

You said that I am "willing to die fighting for what I was told to think," but unvaccinated people are the ones dying (at a rate of approximately 200 people a day in the United States) because they embraced "what they were told to think."

That was pretty funny, as well as hypocritical. I think I laughed out loud.

Extensive safety testing?

Yes, the vaccines were tested extensively.

• https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/research/publications/index.html
• https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Pfizer-BioNTech.html (Pfizer specifically, which is the most common COVID-19 vaccine in the United States)

Guess they didn't catch the blood clots and enlarged heart problems in that extensive safety test

It was acknowledged, before the vaccines were even authorized, that super rare side effects might not have been caught during these trials, since a 1 in a million side effect, for example, is unlikely to pop up in a trial with fewer than a million participants.

The side effects you've referenced are extremely rare, and given our knowledge about them now, can be mitigated if they show up. They do not change the fact that the vaccines are safe and effective, particularly in contrast with the effects of actually contracting COVID-19.

And demonstrated to be safe? BY WHO? Dr. Bill Gates? Flip flopping Fauci the fraudster? HAHAHAHA

That data comes from double-blind studies, as well as the hundreds of millions of vaccinations that have taken place across the country.

Says who? How exactly did somebody calculate "lifelong side effects being near zero" at this stage of the game? They have a time machine?

It doesn't take a time machine to understand the effects the vaccines are likely to have on the human body, and it doesn't take a time machine to know that the vaccine doesn't stay in the human body for very long.

70% of people that get AND BEAT BACK COVID suffer ZERO symptoms...... the "vaccine" would have done what exactly for that group?

1. It's estimated to be about 40% of people with COVID-19 who are asymptomatic, not 70%.
2. The key you're missing is you cannot predict if you're going to be asymptomatic or end up in the hospital (or anything in-between).
3. We understand a lot less about the long-term effects of contracting COVID-19, even when it's seemingly asymptomatic, than we understand about the long-term effects of the vaccines. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the virus that causes COVID-19 has been demonstrated to sometimes irreparably alter the DNA of some cells, unlike the vaccine.
4. Those who contract COVID-19, even asymptomatically, can spread it to others, and they can spread it to others, and they can spread it to others. Vaccination makes spreading the disease to others a lot less likely.

Million times more likely to die from covid-1984 than the vaccine..... tell that to the family of Jacob Clynick. 13 year old boy died days after 2nd shot from an enlarged heart..........which is a known side effect from the "vaccine". Other families for you to contact and let them know the vaccine is safe are the parents of Kassidi Kurill and Sara Stickles and on and on and on. People that are all dead because they were sheep and got the "vaccine".

1. As far as I can tell, it has not been confirmed that Jacob died as a consequence of getting vaccinated.
2. Kassidi Kurill likely didn't die as a result of the vaccine, according to the medical report.
3. I wasn't able to find any evidence that Sara Stickles' death was related to getting the vaccine.

When you're vaccinating hundreds of millions of people, sometimes they're going to die after being vaccinated. That's just statistics. That doesn't mean the vaccine was the cause. Correlation does not automatically mean causation, particularly when we are dealing with the high numbers of vaccines we are talking about. For each person you erroneously allege died of a COVID-19 vaccine, there are 100 million people who didn't. Cherry-picking data for unsubstantiated correlations doesn't accomplish what you think it accomplishes.

Let's pretend for a second that all of these deaths occurred as a result of getting vaccinated (there's no evidence of this), and let's pretend getting vaccinated didn't help the people around you (it does). Getting the vaccine would still be hundreds of thousands of times less deadly than actually contracting the virus.

200+ people die every day from diabetes
400+ people die every day from strokes
roughly 500 people die every day from accidents
1,600+ people die every day from cancer
1,800+ people die every day from heart disease

1. These numbers sound roughly correct, so I'm not going to look them up. What is your point? Everything you listed is deadly, and we should do what we can to mitigate those deaths. If diabetes or strokes were communicable diseases, it would be recommended that we vaccinate against them too. If we had a safe and effective vaccine against diabetes, it would be pretty fucking stupid not to get it.
2. The main reason we are down to approximately 200 American deaths a day from COVID-19 is because so many people have been vaccinated. COVID-19 was killing approximately 3,300 Americans a day at its height. Per your numbers, that's over twice as many deaths as cancer, and you are saying people shouldn't go out and get vaccinated. Imagine a world where we could vaccinate against all cancers, and we could bring that daily deaths number from 1,800+ to 200. Instead, you're peddling anti-vaxxer bullshit. Are you insane?

and covid deaths in the USA..... who knows.

We are down to about 200 deaths a day (that's the average for the last seven days or so) in the United States. At the highest point, it was approximately 3,300 deaths a day. The total number of American deaths by COVID-19 is about 605,000.

Hospitals lie about people dying from covid and the CDC and their "scientists" lie and flip flop on an hourly basis so I don't know how any sane person can look to them for concrete truth and solid answers.

There is no evidence of widespread fraud with regard to the COVID-19 death numbers, and there's ample evidence that these numbers are real. There are plenty of reports of morgues being over capacity, etc. You can talk to just about anybody who worked in a hospital during that time, and they will corroborate. The kind of conspiracy you are suggesting would require millions of people from every just about every corner on the planet to be in on it.

Anecdotally, I had two relatives die of COVID-19, and my SO had one relative die of COVID-19. I have a friend whose mother and father both died of COVID-19. Your COVID-19 denial is as offensive as it is idiotic.

Getting vaccinated does nothing to protect others from covid-1984. For folks that have been injected with the mystery goo, they can still be carriers. still get covid and still die from it. Me not getting vaccinated has zero impact on you or anyone else.

It is possible for someone who is vaccinated to contract COVID-19, but it is very rare, and if you are a vaccinated person who contracts COVID-19, you are a lot less likely to experience serious symptoms. A person who has contracted COVID-19, vaccinated or not, can spread it. This does not mean the vaccine is not effective. By getting vaccinated, you severely reduce the odds of getting it, and you severely reduce the odds of spreading it.

As I also mentioned in a previous threaded, unvaccinated people are a petri dish for new variants, and the more variants that pop up, the more likely it is the vaccines will be less effective against it.

Whether or not you get vaccinated absolutely affects the people around you, and if you're unlucky, it'll affect the whole planet. The delta variant that's in the news right now started with just one person who likely wasn't vaccinated.

I graduated from the same medical school as lacius.... if you aren't a sheep, no way on God's green earth you should get this "vaccine".

The science is clear, and those who have been to medical school have been clear. Anyone who can get the vaccine should get the vaccine as soon as possible. It's in your best interest, and it's in the best interest of those around you.

Yes, I agree that lacius is a parrot. Other doctors (who aren't flip flopping liars) have said to stay far away from this "vaccine". But since the media is controlled by insane, communist liberals..... there is only 1 point of views. Theirs.

Please provide any evidence that the vaccine is not safe and effective, and please show us the statement from any reputable medical group that says the vaccine is not safe and effective.

The vast majority of qualified medical professionals (approximately 96%) have received the COVID-19 vaccine and recommend its use. It's time to stop this conspiratorial nonsense.

As for whether or not I'm a parroting anything (I'm not; I'm referencing it), it doesn't really matter since I'd be parroting the actual science, data, and CDC recommendations.

Do some reading up about how totally flawed that hydroxychloroquine study was. It DOES work and that information was suppressed. That is why those doctors went public on capital hill to blast the media for withholding the truth.

Numerous studies show that hydroxychloroquine doesn't work with regard to COVID-19 and is more harmful than not using it at all. The former president idiotically and recklessly peddled it as though it was some miracle cure, despite not having evidence at the time that it was helpful.

HAHAHA, now I know you have your head in the sand with lacius and xzi!!!

Only one of us is denying the preponderance of scientific evidence. If that isn't "having your head in the sand," I don't know what is.

The insurrection where the police officers OPENED THE DOORS AND INVITED IN THE PROTESTORS? Protestors which were caught on film changing out of their anti-fa rags to look like Trump supporters? Stop watching wall to wall MSNBC/CNN/Faux. Believe it or not, there are two sides to every story. Your parents and society have failed you.

Rioters unlawfully and violently stormed the Capitol. There is no evidence of anybody on the left disguising themselves as supporters of the former president. Many of the rioters, including those who were arrested, are self-described supporters of the former president, and many of them had online presences for years before the insurrection that corroborate their Trumpism. I am sorry if the facts are inconvenient for you.

 

[gene0915]

All of the evidence suggests the vaccines are safe and effective, except the evidence that shows it's deadly......in which case, that data is ignored. Some of the evidence suggests the vaccines are not safe and effective. Every reputable medical group, that is approved of by liberal media, recommends vaccination. Please show me evidence, that Facebook approves of, the vaccines are not safe and effective. Please show me a reputable medical group, that isn't censored by big tech, that does not recommend vaccination.

I'd rather use a system with the findings that align to the narrative I've been fed by the lügenpresse and never admits when it's wrong. I can't think of a system that's more intellectually dishonest.

I'm not aware of any "scientists" doing the vaccine lottery. I believe governments are enticing the sheep to play Russian roulette with their lives and I see nothing wrong with incentivizing weak minded sheep.

I'm unaware of any reputable scientists or medical groups promoting the use of these things, except when they do. If I remember right, the idiotic former president and the right-wing media (who am I kidding.... all media is left wing, am I right? were the ones promoting scientifically proven treatment for COVID like hydroxychloroquine..... which big tech squashed because you know....can't have the sheep believing in the truth.

You said that I am "willing to die fighting for what I was told to think," but vaccinated people are the ones dying (at a rate of approximately 200 people a day in the United States) because they embraced "what they were told to think."

That was pretty funny, as well as hypocritical. I think I laughed out loud.

You're right, the vaccines were not tested extensively but who cares?

It was never acknowledged, before the vaccines were even authorized, that super rare side effects could kill people. The chances of having a life altering side effect from the "vaccine" is 1 in a bajillion......... except for the hundreds of thousands who have died from the "vaccine" side effects but oh wells. If it saves 2 people, the death of trillions is worth it!

The side effects you've referenced are extremely common, and given our knowledge about them now, can't be mitigated if they show up because if they could be, we wouldn't have people dropped dead due to blood clots and enlarged hearts but no biggie. None of this changes the fact that the vaccines are deadly and non-effective.

That data comes from flip flopping liars like Fauci and "scientists" at the CDC.

Unfortunately, we don't have a time machine to know what the long term effects are of this "vaccine" but you sheep will lead the way and can let us know 5, 10, 20 years from now. Assuming you live that long and the "vaccine" will stay in your body until you die.

1. It's estimated to be about 70% of people with COVID-19 who are asymptomatic, not 40%.
2. The key you're missing is our time machine works when we want it to.
3. We understand a lot less about the long-term effects of contracting COVID-19, but know with 100% certainty that there is no long term side effects, that could possibly kill you or prevent you from having children, if you get the "vaccine". As I mentioned in an earlier post, the man-made virus that causes COVID-19 has been demonstrated to sometimes irreparably alter the DNA of some cells, like the vaccine.
4. Insert NPC talking point loaded from cnn.com

1. As far as I can tell, Jacob died as a consequence of getting vaccinated.
2. Kassidi Kurill likely died as a result of the vaccine, according to the medical report.
3. The evidence that Sara Stickles' death was related to getting the vaccine is inconvenient to me so I'll ignore it.

When you're vaccinating hundreds of millions of people, sometimes they're going to die after being vaccinated. That's just statistics. That doesn't mean the vaccine was the cause. I mean, sure.... if somebody falls off a ladder and dies..... it's obvious that is a covid death. Somebody dropping dead days after getting the "vaccine"..... HOLD UP NOW........ lets not jump to any crazy conclusions! Sure, correlation does automatically mean causation, particularly when we are dealing with the inflated/fake numbers of vaccines we are talking about. For each person who died of a COVID-19 vaccine, there are 2 people who didn't. Cherry-picking data for unsubstantiated correlations is what I'm all about!

Let's pretend for a second that all of these deaths occurred as a result of getting vaccinated (there's plenty of evidence of this), and let's pretend getting vaccinated helped the people around you (it doesn't). Getting the "vaccine" would still be hundreds of thousands of times more deadly than actually contracting the virus.

1. These numbers sound roughly correct, so I'm not going to look them up. What is your point? Everything you listed is deadly, and we should do what we can to mitigate those deaths. If diabetes or strokes were communicable diseases, it would be recommended that we vaccinate against them too. If we had a safe and effective vaccine against diabetes, it would be pretty fucking stupid not to get it. Sure, second hand smoke is amazingly bad to people that don't smoke but fuck those people....let them carry around oxygen tanks. Big government cares so much about peoples health that we're going to mandate "vaccines" for everyone and let 2nd hand smoke continue on and ban foods/beverages with high fructose corn syrup...... er, wait a minute.
   
2. The main reason we are down to approximately 200 American deaths a day (if you sheep believe those phony numbers) from COVID-19 is because orange man was "voted" out of office and the media controls and narrative and whatever we say is the truth. COVID-19 was killing (wink wink) approximately 3,300 Americans a day at its height (hard to say that with a straight face since I know it's BS). The real numbers are way WAY lower than 3,300 American per day but since we control the data, who are you going to argue with? Imagine a world where we could vaccinate against all cancers......... (imagining is all you can do because if a cure for cancer existed, IT WOULD NEVER SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY) and we could bring that daily deaths number from 1,800+ to 200. Instead, you're peddling "vaccine" bullshit to the sheep. Stop being logical!

We are down to allegedly 200 deaths a day (that's the average for the last seven days or so) in the United States. At the highest point, it was approximately 10 deaths a day. The total number of American deaths by COVID-19 is about 6.

There is evidence of widespread fraud with regard to the COVID-19 death numbers, and there's ample evidence that these numbers aren't real. There are plenty of reports of morgues being over capacity, etc. And also plenty of Tik-Tok videos of overworked health care providers dancing in the empty halls of hospitals. You can talk to just about anybody (we approve of) who worked in a hospital during that time, and they will corroborate. The kind of conspiracy you are suggesting would require a roomful of people to be in on it.

Anecdotally, I had to relatives die of COVID-19 vaccine, and my SO had one relative die of COVID-19 vaccine. I have a friend uncle niece neighbor twice removed whose mother and father both died of COVID-19 vaccine. Your COVID-19 vaccine denial is accurate and destroys my narrow view of the world.

It is possible for someone who is vaccinated to contract COVID-19 and if you are a vaccinated person who contracts COVID-19, you are a lot less likely to experience serious symptoms.....unless you count death as a serious side-effect. A person who has contracted COVID-19, vaccinated or not, can spread it. This means the vaccine is pointless. By getting vaccinated, you show the world youo're an ignorant sheep and you do nothing about reducing the odds of spreading it.

As I also mentioned in a previous threaded, vaccinated people are a walking liability to the human race.

Whether or not you get vaccinated absolutely does not affects the people around you. The delta, gamma, pi variants that are in the news right now started with just one person who likely works for the CIA and planted the story at a compromised news outlet to spread fear for the dumb sheep.

The science isn't clear, and those who have been to medical school, like Dr. Bill Gates have been clear. Anyone who can get the vaccine shouldn't get the vaccine. It's in the best interest of the people who truly run the planets' best interest, and it's in the best interest of those around you to avoid the vaccine.

Please provide any evidence that covid is real and please show us the statement from any reputable medical group that says the vaccine is safe and effective.

The vast majority of "qualified medical professionals"....like Dr. Bill Gates (approximately 96%) have received the COVID-19 vaccine and recommend against its use. It's time to guzzle down whatever liberal media pushes!

As for whether or not I'm a parroting anything (I am; I'm literally using CNN talking points), it doesn't really matter since everything I've said is BS.

Numerous studies show that hydroxychloroquine works with regard to COVID-19 and is less harmful than not using it at all. The current puppet president idiotically and recklessly peddled the vaccine as though it was some miracle cure, despite not having evidence that it was helpful.

Only one of us is denying the preponderance of scientific evidence, me. If that is "having your head in the sand," so be it.

Rioters lawfully and peacefully entered the Capitol through doors opened for them by federal police. There is plenty of evidence of fascists thugs disguising themselves as supporters of the former president. Many of the rioters, including those who were arrested, are self-described supporters of BLM and anti-fa and George Soros and many of them had online presences for years before the peaceful march through the capital that corroborate their liberal mind disorder. I am sorry if the facts are inconvenient for you because they sure are for me.

Totally agree man!