PS1/2 PS2 Fat: Is internal SD card better than sharing roms over network from Raspberry Pi?

[nutsack]

EDIT: Crap, I didn't mean sharing roms over a network like I was plugging things into my router. I meant the Raspberry Pi being connected directly to the PS2 via an ethernet cable. Can't edit the title.


Currently I'm using a Raspberry Pi 3B to share roms to my SCPH-39001 PS2 fat over SMB through a direct wired connection between the Pi and the official network adapter for the PS2 Fat, which seems to work worlds better for me in Dragon Quest VIII than did sharing the roms from my PC through the router to the PS2 (all connections wired). At least for FMV, which seems to run full speed finally using the Pi to share roms to the PS2. But is there much to gain by going with internal storage for the PS2 instead of using the Raspberry Pi SMB method? I don't want to use a hard drive though, too much of a pain swapping the IDE connector for a SATA and then finding a bracket to hold the drive in place, so would likely go with an SD card adapter instead if I go with internal storage. Am I likely to see better performance from an internal SD card or is the Raspberry Pi 3B directly connected over ethernet to the PS2 fast enough to ensure I don't get any skipping in FMV for example? I just moved on to using the Pi method so Dragon Quest VIII is the only game I have tested with it, but seems to run nicely.

 

[notimp]

Depends on the SMB throughput, but probably not an issue.

Someone do a filecopy via smb to the internal HDD and post MB/s throughput numbers.

PS2 read speed numbers are 24x speed CD-ROM [3.6 MB/s], 4x speed DVD-ROM [5.28 MB/s], and I'd wager, that you'd get 7.5MB/s to 10MB/s throughput via SMB at least.

Only have the gamestar adapter for PS2 (no Network Port), so I cant test.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Found the answer. You are getting less than max DVD speed:

>>What about OPL? Can we currently get above 2MB/s (e.g. 2.5-3 MB/s)?
I mean what max transfer speed we can get from e.g. OPL 1220.

>That, I do not know for sure because I last measured SMB's mediocre performance before I backported the TCPIP core locking feature from a new version of LWIP. We might be getting something about 3MB/s, which would explain the much smoother experience today. But it will not be exceptional.

But:

On my dying laser at the beginning I get ~2300 kB/s, while at the end of a 4 GB+ game it's ~3200 kB/s

Not that much less, that it would matter..

Also - there might me a faster protocol than SMB that you can use by now. See:
https://webcache.googleusercontent....fer-speed-with-opl.21975/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk

(Link is also the src for the quotes.)

edit:

Actually unsure - because I dont know, what this refers to:

Or even currently OPL should be able to reach 1MB/s e.g. while watching FMV?
This is a possibility, since we ignore the filesystem. As long as the game makes longer reads, it will likely reach 1MB/s.
Smaller reads will result in very poor performance.

(Same thread)

 

[Snomannen_kalle]

EDIT: Crap, I didn't mean sharing roms over a network like I was plugging things into my router. I meant the Raspberry Pi being connected directly to the PS2 via an ethernet cable. Can't edit the title.


Currently I'm using a Raspberry Pi 3B to share roms to my SCPH-39001 PS2 fat over SMB through a direct wired connection between the Pi and the official network adapter for the PS2 Fat, which seems to work worlds better for me in Dragon Quest VIII than did sharing the roms from my PC through the router to the PS2 (all connections wired). At least for FMV, which seems to run full speed finally using the Pi to share roms to the PS2. But is there much to gain by going with internal storage for the PS2 instead of using the Raspberry Pi SMB method? I don't want to use a hard drive though, too much of a pain swapping the IDE connector for a SATA and then finding a bracket to hold the drive in place, so would likely go with an SD card adapter instead if I go with internal storage. Am I likely to see better performance from an internal SD card or is the Raspberry Pi 3B directly connected over ethernet to the PS2 fast enough to ensure I don't get any skipping in FMV for example? I just moved on to using the Pi method so Dragon Quest VIII is the only game I have tested with it, but seems to run nicely.

The reason I prefer using an internal HDD is mostly space concerns -- it's very neat to hide the drive inside the PS2. If you have a lot of disposable income, then SD cards is a viable option (like e.g. in this thread on reddit, there's a post by user jjennings089 detailing his setup) -- it will probably also run more silent as there's no rotating parts in the drive, perhaps lower power needs and heat as well although I'm not sure about that. You will perhaps also experience faster speeds when transferring content from your computer, at least if the alternative is to use a USB to SATA or IDE dongle. SD cards are expensive though and you will get more storage for your money with a proper HDD or SSD

 

[nutsack]

Depends on the SMB throughput, but probably not an issue.

Someone do a filecopy via smb to the internal HDD and post MB/s throughput numbers.

PS2 read speed numbers are 24x speed CD-ROM [3.6 MB/s], 4x speed DVD-ROM [5.28 MB/s], and I'd wager, that you'd get 7.5MB/s to 10MB/s throughput via SMB at least.

Only have the gamestar adapter for PS2 (no Network Port), so I cant test.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Found the answer. You are getting less than max DVD speed:



But:

Not that much less, that it would matter..

Also - there might me a faster protocol than SMB that you can use by now. See:
https://webcache.googleusercontent....fer-speed-with-opl.21975/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk

(Link is also the src for the quotes.)

edit:

Actually unsure - because I dont know, what this refers to:

(Same thread)

Thanks. Guess I'll just have to see as I play more games on it. So far DQ VIII seems great though. Ugh I have one of those Gamestar adapters and was going to go the SATA drive route, but it's so poorly manufactured I can't even get it to make a good contact when I screw it in. It's so misshapen. While my official network adapter fits perfectly. The fit on my Gamestar was so bad the only thing I was able to do was press it hard into my SATA drive (with FreeHDBoot installed) long enough to make a Free McBoot memory card on an empty PS2 memory card.

The reason I prefer using an internal HDD is mostly space concerns -- it's very neat to hide the drive inside the PS2. If you have a lot of disposable income, then SD cards is a viable option (like e.g. in this thread on reddit, there's a post by user jjennings089 detailing his setup) -- it will probably also run more silent as there's no rotating parts in the drive, perhaps lower power needs and heat as well although I'm not sure about that. You will perhaps also experience faster speeds when transferring content from your computer, at least if the alternative is to use a USB to SATA or IDE dongle. SD cards are expensive though and you will get more storage for your money with a proper HDD or SSD

Nowadays my biggest free SATA drive is the 160GB drive that came in my PS3 (put a 1TB drive in it when I hacked it) while I have a bunch of spare 128GB SD cards so would rather do the SD mod than the SATA one. I'm not going to trust another Gamestar adapter after my first one was so screwed up and the IDE to SD conversion is so simple.

 

[Snomannen_kalle]

Thanks. Guess I'll just have to see as I play more games on it. So far DQ VIII seems great though. Ugh I have one of those Gamestar adapters and was going to go the SATA drive route, but it's so poorly manufactured I can't even get it to make a good contact when I screw it in. It's so misshapen. While my official network adapter fits perfectly. The fit on my Gamestar was so bad the only thing I was able to do was press it hard into my SATA drive (with FreeHDBoot installed) long enough to make a Free McBoot memory card on an empty PS2 memory card.



Nowadays my biggest free SATA drive is the 160GB drive that came in my PS3 (put a 1TB drive in it when I hacked it) while I have a bunch of spare 128GB SD cards so would rather do the SD mod than the SATA one. I'm not going to trust another Gamestar adapter after my first one was so screwed up and the IDE to SD conversion is so simple.

Yeah, I get that. Apparently, the maxdiypower IDE to SATA conversion kits for the original PS2 network adapter are very good, these are usually recommended if you should ever change your mind. I would have provided a link, but for some reason the page won't load on my phone at the moment (you should find them at maxdiypower.com)

 

[Hayato213]

If you have a FAT model may as well use the HDD, get a IDE to SATA converter, the reddit post compare the loading speed among the option between HDD, Optical, Network and USB

https://www.reddit.com/r/ps2/comments/66ue13/how_do_loading_times_compare_between/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/183271137352

This adapter is good but it's expensive

 

[nutsack]

If you have a FAT model may as well use the HDD, get a IDE to SATA converter, the reddit post compare the loading speed among the option between HDD, Optical, Network and USB

https://www.reddit.com/r/ps2/comments/66ue13/how_do_loading_times_compare_between/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/183271137352

This adapter is good but it's expensive

Wonder if newer versions of OPL helps with the ethernet option? Kind of surprised to read you'll still have some stutters with the HDD option. From what I have read there is no difference between HDD and using an internal SD card through the IDE port though.

Completely forgot about FreeDVDExploit too. Might use that for troublesome DVD games, though not with CD since I want to save the CD laser for PS1 games.

 

[Hayato213]

Wonder if newer versions of OPL helps with the ethernet option? Kind of surprised to read you'll still have some stutters with the HDD option. From what I have read there is no difference between HDD and using an internal SD card through the IDE port though.

Completely forgot about FreeDVDExploit too. Might use that for troublesome DVD games, though not with CD since I want to save the CD laser for PS1 games.

The adapter is limited to that speed, so 100Mbit or 12.5MB/s while the ATA-66 port for the HDD connector get you about 66 MB/s, some game like Xenosaga episode II has slow fmv, that why people says there is some stutters. A 2TB drive cost about the same as 400GB SD card, so some people prefer the drive.

Maximum theoretically speed for almost all devices in PS2 is:

• HDD ATA interface: ATA-66 (Roughly 66MB/s).
• Ethernet interface: 100Mbit (Or 12.5MB/s).
• USB 1.1 interface: 12Mbit (~1.5 MB/s).
• CD/DVD drive: 24x speed CD-ROM [3.6 MB/s], 4x speed DVD-ROM [5.28 MB/s].

 

[notimp]

Wonder if newer versions of OPL helps with the ethernet option? Kind of surprised to read you'll still have some stutters with the HDD option. From what I have read there is no difference between HDD and using an internal SD card through the IDE port though.

Completely forgot about FreeDVDExploit too. Might use that for troublesome DVD games, though not with CD since I want to save the CD laser for PS1 games.

Its most likely SMB thats the culprit here. So if you dont find another transfer option, you might still be limited to whatever the throughput of the smb protocol on the PS2 is here (3 or 1 MB/s, depending on how you read the comments in the linked thread). You probably could measure "something close to game loading speed", using the tool, thats linked in the thread (it has an smb option) - but that is not compiled. SMB to HDD transfer according to this thread also is not a valid option to test this, as adressing the filesystem, would reduce speed even more, something thats prevented, during OPL streaming.

Again, it most likely is smb thats the culprit here, and especially smb on the PS2 side. I'm familiar with routers of the age, where the bottleneck also was the router cpu, when dealing with smb (thats why my first guess was 7.5MB/s ). While playing a game the smb overhead is probably large enough, that it significantly cuts down transfer speeds from 10MB/s.

So the answer is either 3MB/s or 1MB/s (depending on how you read the thread I linked), and the only way to test anything near to 'game loading speed' is to run a speed test program (.elf). (Like the one thats linked in the thread, but sadly not compiled.. ).

I bet newer versions of OPL would not make a difference, unless there is a different networking protocol (other than smb) available in options. In fact, I'm almost certain.
--

As to why some games "stutter" from HDD - thats actually something thats solved with OPL compatibility modes in the game settings screen.

1:

Limit transfer rates to 2800KB/s, in blocks of 8. Callbacks will take place 5ms after completion of each command. / Closely emulates the transfer rate of the CD/DVD drive in 8-sector blocks, required by buggy games that glitch when exposed to the higher transfer rates and the synchronous nature of HDD mode. Callback Timer has been merged to MODE-1.

2:

Reading is done immediately when the request is made, rather than letting the calling thread return. / It makes OPL read data synchronously (read immediately upon receiving the request) instead of asynchronously (in the background). Some games work better with this setting, for one reason or another. -- TIP: usually fixes odd issues like audio or video glitches.

src: https://webcache.googleusercontent.....php/page/opl_modes+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=at

Most of the stutters are fixed by turning 2 an - as the PS2 then doesnt wait for returns when feeding data, but also stops asynchronous data request delivery. If that doesnt work, turning on 1 on OPL for a game usually solves all the hitching on HDD games. (But then the game also only loads as fast as it would from the DVD drive.)

Most games dont need them, some games only work, or work better with 2 on. The first combination if a game doesnt load from HDD usually is 2 and 6, if it then still doesnt load, its compatibility table lookup time...

Or if two doesnt fix a stutter, try again with only 1 active.

So far I have seen no games, where those two options wouldnt solve in game stutter. (When loading games from a HDD).

 

[BOBdotEXE]

Internal SD card is a bit more convent to use, it loads faster, and you don't have to worry about extra cables to power or connect to Pi/pi hdd

However, loading new roms on a sd/hdd a bit more annoying, even though it can be done over the network, It's slower than copying a file to a usb hdd.

Also, out of the BOX, it's harder to load PS1 ISO's on the SD, as they can't be loaded n the same way as ps2 games (AFAIK)
You'll need to adjust the partitions.

---
For loading from a Pi, you can use an extra USB drive (connected to Pi, not the ps2) and with that drive you can easily add new ps1/ps2 games
And the speeds are good enough that FMV playback works in the games I've tested.
However, you'll still need a way to load homebrew, so you'll still need a free MCboot memory card inserted everytime you start the system/

But, the pi is more portable, so if you take your pi and MC over to a friends house, you could bring your whole ps2 collection, and play on their ps2 phat/slim!
---
TL;DR:
-Do you want a set and forget setup for playing PS2 games?
[ Go SD card route]

-(Once setup,) do you want a quick and easy way to be able to install new ps1/ps2 games?
[Go with the Pi]