Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

[Valwinz]

Is ok when Biden does it

Biden played golf over the weekend, and a reporter asks "is there anything else you can tell us about how he spends his evenings and weekends? Is he reading books or listening to music? Is he was he watching movies?"

— Philip Melanchthon Wegmann (@PhilipWegmann) April 22, 2021

 

[Hanafuda]

The deflection is 100% real, folks.

Your point was that it was hypocritical for McEnany to criticize Biden for sticking his nose and opinion into things where he shouldn't, when Trump did that all the time. And you're right. But you're also overlooking that now it's Biden doing it, and you don't seem to mind. Just admit that sometimes we excuse some bad political behavior on an ideological basis.

 

[Xzi]

They can protest every bit as effectively protesting elsewhere. People need to get to their job, to the airport to fly home to their family, to the hospital for an emergency, etc, etc. I'll say it again. Stay the fuck off the roads and light rail train tracks.

Obviously it's not as effective if everybody is just going about their business. Apathy is a large part of the reason this country is still dealing with problems that should've been fixed fifty plus years ago.

 

[Hanafuda]

The peaceful assembly obviously doesn't work as black people have been trying to stop police from killing them for years.

Really? You'd think if people wanted to stop police from killing them, they'd stop committing murder at 4 times the rate of their demographic representation. (13% of population, 52% of homicide offenders).

 

[Xzi]

Your point was that it was hypocritical for McEnany to criticize Biden for sticking his nose and opinion into things where he shouldn't, when Trump did that all the time. And you're right. But you're also overlooking that now it's Biden doing it, and you don't seem to mind. Just admit that sometimes we excuse some bad political behavior on an ideological basis.

I'd say there's a big difference between offering an opinion on things and attempting to sway things in your favor via barely-veiled threats and intimidation, as Trump was known for.

Really? You'd think if people wanted to stop police from killing them, they'd stop committing murder at 4 times the rate of their demographic representation. (13% of population, 52% of homicide offenders).

Here's a thought: what if white people are out committing crimes at roughly the same rate, but the cops only focus on arresting people that "fit a certain description?" Basically you're just providing even more evidence of racism in policing.

 

[Hanafuda]

Here's a thought: what if white people are out committing crimes at roughly the same rate, but the cops only focus on arresting people that "fit a certain description?" Basically you're just providing even more evidence of racism in policing.

Nope. You can make that argument if you want to about more pedestrian offenses like weed possession or something, but I'm talking about murder.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

 

[D34DL1N3R]

Left or Right, I doubt any of us care what Kayleigh is saying. Personally, I do not think I have ever heard her talk. I am not about to click on your video link. I do not know why you care what she says or thinks. Do you think I care about what people at CNN say? Or FOX? Because it's all just infotainment... like CNN's Charlie Chester said, the only real news these days is coming from streamer in his basement. All the mainstream crap is garbage.

You guys got your boy Biden in the there for now, so let bygones be bygones and let's start talking about the current administration and like events.

hey saw what you did there, and it didn't work.

Except you're acting like I posted a fake news story that you're refusing to watch because, well, it's fake news. In that context your reply would be perfectly applicable. However, that's not what's going on here.

Your point was that it was hypocritical for McEnany to criticize Biden for sticking his nose and opinion into things where he shouldn't, when Trump did that all the time. And you're right. But you're also overlooking that now it's Biden doing it, and you don't seem to mind. Just admit that sometimes we excuse some bad political behavior on an ideological basis.

1) That wasn't my point at all.
2) The excusing of any actions of Biden on my end is pure projection and made up fake news. Please do quote me excusing anything Biden has said or done.

 

[Xzi]

Nope. You can make that argument if you want to about more pedestrian offenses like weed possession or something, but I'm talking about murder.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

I can make that argument about anything, even your own source points out that this is only one study of many. 52% also refers to the number of arrests, not convictions, so again, we don't know how many of those simply "fit a certain description," and how many actually committed murder.

Now am I surprised that tensions between black communities and police are high? No, of course not. Even ignoring all that's been happening lately, we can look to history to see why. The police were founded as a group of runaway slave catchers, and they participated in outright slaughter of black communities multiple times, the Tulsa race massacre being just one example. "Protect and serve" has never been applicable to them.

 

[tthousand]

Except you're acting like I posted a fake news story that you're refusing to watch because, well, it's fake news. In that context your reply would be perfectly applicable. However, that's not what's going on here.

What the hell are you talking about? I am acting like you posted a news story that you shouldn't care about, nor should anyone else. Instead of posting a stupid video no one is going to watch, why don't you actually type something that some of us might read?

 

[Foxi4]

Obviously it's not as effective if everybody is just going about their business. Apathy is a large part of the reason this country is still dealing with problems that should've been fixed fifty plus years ago.

And the answer to that apathy is to commit crimes and interfere with people exercising their freedoms? Okay, you're making a pretty good argument for locking them up. What you're effectively saying is that because peaceful, legal assembly has lower efficacy, you have to resort to protest that is dangerous/obstructive/illegal in order to meet your goals. That's one step removed from terrorism.

 

[Xzi]

And the answer to that apathy is to commit crimes and interfere with people exercising their freedoms?

Sorry, but a group of protestors spilling into the streets for ten minutes or so is not a criminal act, as much as I'm sure you'd prefer otherwise.

What you're effectively saying is that because peaceful, legal assembly has lower efficacy, you have to resort to protest that is dangerous/obstructive/illegal in order to meet your goals. That's one step removed from terrorism.

Now we're basically equating jaywalking with terrorism. A little too melodramatic for my tastes.

 

[Foxi4]

Sorry, but a group of protestors spilling into the streets for ten minutes or so is not a criminal act, as much as I'm sure you'd prefer otherwise.

Now we're basically equating jaywalking with terrorism. A little too melodramatic for my tastes.

10 minutes? Jaywalking? We must live in two very different realities. I'm old enough to remember protesters occupying entire blocks of the city in a bizarre attempt at secession - that didn't happen 200 years ago, that happened last summer. Don't be disingenuous.

 

[Xzi]

I'm old enough to remember protesters occupying entire blocks of the city in a bizarre attempt at secession - that didn't happen 200 years ago, that happened last summer. Don't be disingenuous.

Okay, and would you have remembered that protest or what it was about if not for a bit of disruption to your normal routine? Probably not. Again, this country was founded on protest. The only reason certain people want to criminalize it now is because popular opinion is no longer on their side; they don't like the causes people are choosing to protest for. Progress is always painful, even more so for those benefiting from the status quo and stagnation.

 

[Foxi4]

Okay, and would you have remembered that protest or what it was about if not for a bit of disruption to your normal routine? Probably not. Again, this country was founded on protest. The only reason certain people want to criminalize it now is because popular opinion is no longer on their side; they don't like the causes people are choosing to protest for. Progress is always painful, even more so for those benefiting from the status quo and stagnation.

If the states in question dispatched rocket-propelled bulldozers, as they should have, to break up those grossly illegal gatherings that disrupted their respective cities and led to an unprecedented wave of murders and rapes within the so-called "autonomous zones", I can guarantee you that I would have remembered them. It is the duty of the state to protect the citizens from criminals, the fact that the zones were allowed to exist was a dereliction of duty that should be punished next election season. You might be okay with living in Robocop-style Detroit, most people are not.

 

[Xzi]

If the states in question dispatched rocket-propelled bulldozers, as they should have, to break up those grossly illegal gatherings that disrupted their respective cities and led to an unprecedented wave of murders and rapes within the so-called "autonomous zones", I can guarantee you that I would have remembered them.

Well yeah, the right-wing does so love to cheer on fascism in any form.

It is the duty of the state to protect the citizens from criminals

A big reason why we need the right to protest is because the state often turns criminal itself, or at least the people representing it do. For every action, an equal and opposite reaction. No murderous cops = no autonomous zones or calls to defund the police.

 

[Hanafuda]

I'm old enough to remember protesters occupying entire blocks of the city in a bizarre attempt at secession - that didn't happen 200 years ago, that happened last summer. Don't be disingenuous.

It's still like that. And if you go there, there are different/special rules for white people.

 

[Foxi4]

Well yeah, the right-wing does so love to cheer on fascism in any form.

You will have to explain to me in excruciating detail how breaking up a violent mob that's taken a block of the city hostage is a display of fascism.

A big reason why we need the right to protest is because the state often turns criminal itself, or at least the people representing it do. For every action, an equal and opposite reaction. No murderous cops = no autonomous zones or calls to defund the police.

Cute, but ultimately without merit. The state should not allow criminals to form city states that operate under the watchful eyes of self-proclaimed warlords. If this is your way of gaining some kind of sympathy, I'm afraid that it's a swing and a miss. In the 24 days CHAZ/CHOP existed we had at least 2 gun homicides and 4 additional shooting victims - all of the victims were black. God knows how many robberies and rapes took place, I don't think anyone was counting. Seems to me that the whole self-governance thing didn't quite work out the way they had hoped.

 

[Xzi]

You will have to explain to me in excruciating detail how breaking up a violent mob that's taken a block of the city hostage is a display of fascism.

A state-backed force (presumably police or national guard) rolling through and destroying a whole city block while also killing any American occupying said block? That's basically Tiananmen square all over again, there's no spinning that as anything but fascism.

Cute, but ultimately without merit.

How so? Over a thousand murders committed by police yearly lately, and you think the autonomous zones had nothing to do with that? Well you're just plain wrong, no two ways about it.

The state should not allow criminals to form city states that operate under the watchful eyes of self-proclaimed warlords.

So then make the choice an easy one, instead of making people choose between a state-sponsored warlord and a private warlord. If police think that throwing Chauvin under the bus was enough to cover for their next hundred cold-blooded murders or so, they've got another thing coming.

 

[Foxi4]

A state-backed force (presumably police or national guard) rolling through and destroying a whole city block while also killing any American occupying said block? That's basically Tiananmen square all over again, there's no spinning that as anything but fascism.

How so? Over a thousand murders committed by police yearly lately, and you think the autonomous zones had nothing to do with that? Well you're just plain wrong, no two ways about it.

So then make the choice an easy one, instead of making people choose between a state-sponsored warlord and a private warlord. If police think that throwing Chauvin under the bus was enough to cover for their next hundred cold-blooded murders or so, they've got another thing coming.

The comparison is plain ridiculous, so much so that it's almost not worth arguing about it. Tiananmen Square was cleared by the Chinese military armed with assault rifles and tanks. Removing road blockades with a bulldozer isn't equivalent in any shape or form, unless concrete lives matter now. Not only that, I figured that the "rocket-propelled" part would've tipped you off about the satirical element of the statement, but apparently not. I'll be sure to use satire tags next time. What I meant was that the protests should've been broken up quickly to restore order, I didn't *actually* suggest that the state government should hire the A-Team to combine a Tomahawk missile with a bulldozer and create the ultimate protest-breaking machine, as amusing as that would be. In terms of your deceptive statistics, areas where BLM protests took place saw a reduced number of deaths caused by the police, but that number was dwarfed by the increase in homicides:

https://www.vox.com/22360290/black-lives-matter-protest-crime-ferguson-effects-murder

300 less deaths by the hands of the police? Sounds great. Oh, *1000-6000* more deaths overall? Now it sounds counterproductive. If lives matter so much to you, perhaps you shouldn't support solutions that lead to *significantly* more deaths.

 

[FAST6191]

52% also refers to the number of arrests, not convictions

Did you once link me to an "all the people killed by police in [year]" database/collation and more or less leave it at that in one of the previous discussions?





Speaking of which some poor child merely 16 years young was in the middle of stabbing someone and got shot by the police, all whilst having more melanin than the average member of the population. Apparently we are all supposed to be upset about that now.