Why is the US terrorizing Venezuela?

[Vixi]

I have my legion of adoring fans.

Is it summer where you are too?

 

[gamefan5]

Is it summer where you are too?

Southern Hemisphere is lovely, at this time of year.

 

[smf]

It’s not a popularity contest. Besides, I have my legion of adoring fans.

I know it's called only fans, but they aren't really fans.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

I know it's called only fans, but they aren't really fans.

Ah so legion = 2

 

[Foxi4]

I know it's called only fans, but they aren't really fans.

Ah so legion = 2

Doing things for the adoration of others is a vain pursuit. People in positions of power should do things because they’re the right things to do, regardless of who they anger in the process. This noble quality gains one few allies, but those who follow are true friends. Now, if the first thing you two can think of are arrangements more fiscal in nature, that says something about you, not about me.

Is it summer where you are too?

Sun’s out, fun’s out.

 

[BlazeHeatnix]

Doing things for the adoration of others is a vain pursuit. People in positions of power should do things because they’re the right things to do, regardless of who they anger in the process.

So you hate democracy?

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Doing things for the adoration of others is a vain pursuit. People in positions of power should do things because they’re the right things to do,

Someone seems to have forgotten what politics have become in the past 30 years or so.

Now, if the first thing you two can think of are arrangements more fiscal in nature, that says something about you, not about me.

What a way to not-say-anything I was more making a point about "legions" but sure

 

[Foxi4]

So you hate democracy?

You did the meme.



Elected officials are elected to do their jobs first and foremost, not to please the electorate.

 

[EthanB]

You did the meme.

View attachment 552296

Elected officials are elected to do their jobs first and foremost, not to please the electorate.

They are indeed elected to do their jobs, the jobs that the electorate elected them to do.

 

[BlazeHeatnix]

Elected officials are elected to do their jobs first and foremost, not to please the electorate.

They get elected to do things the electorate wants. And now you're saying they should disregard the electorate entirely. So you basically support politicians lying to their electorate about their intentions. Ergo, you hate democracy.

This isn't a misinterpretation. It's exactly in line with your beliefs and the beliefs of the people you blindly support but have been too much of a pussy during the last month to be open about it.

Go ahead, tell me why going to war with the EU would be a good thing. Stop being a pussy about it.

 

[Foxi4]

They get elected to do things the electorate wants. And now you're saying they should disregard the electorate entirely. So you basically support politicians lying to their electorate about their intentions. Ergo, you hate democracy.

This isn't a misinterpretation. It's exactly in line with your beliefs and the beliefs of the people you blindly support but have been too much of a pussy during the last month to be open about it.

Go ahead, tell me why going to war with the EU would be a good thing. Stop being a pussy about it.

Nah, you can fight strawmen on your own time, don’t waste mine. Nobody *wants* to pay taxes, but the IRS exists to collect them regardless. Nobody *wants* to be arrested, but law enforcement agencies exist to, as the name suggests, enforce the law. Nobody *wants* to deal with city permits, but you still have to wait in line at city hall if you need something done. Nobody *enjoys* dealing with the DMV, but they have to deal with the DMV all the same. What the electorate “likes” doesn’t always align with what is good and proper because the government, from the bottom level of a lowly clerk to the very top, has to balance the interests of an entire nation. The satisfaction of any one specific group at any one specific time takes a back seat and whether you like it or not, sometimes government employees have to make decisions that are wildly unpopular but *necessary* for the continued function and prosperity of the country. Sometimes achieving a goal desirable by the electorate requires several unpleasant intermediate steps, that’s life. You “not liking” something about the government can steer your vote during the election, but it cannot grind the country to a halt. Any person in any position of power who is beholden to the capricious whims of the mob and will bend over backwards to please it regardless of the negative consequences is toothless and weak.

 

[EthanB]

Nah, you can fight strawmen on your own time, don’t waste mine. Nobody *wants* to pay taxes, but the IRS exists to collect them regardless. Nobody *wants* to be arrested, but law enforcement agencies exist to, as the name suggests, enforce the law. Nobody *wants* to deal with city permits, but you still have to wait in line at city hall if you need something done. Nobody *enjoys* dealing with the DMV, but they have to deal with the DMV all the same. What the electorate “likes” doesn’t always align with what is good and proper because the government, from the bottom level of a lowly clerk to the very top, has to balance the interests of an entire nation. The satisfaction of any one specific group at any one specific time take a back seat and whether you like it or not, sometimes government employees have to make decisions that are wildly unpopular but *necessary* for the continued function and prosperity of the country. Sometimes achieving a goal desirable by the electorate requires several unpleasant intermediate steps, that’s life. You “not liking” something about the government can steer your vote during the election, but it cannot grind the country to a halt. Any person in any position of power who is beholden to the capricious whims of the mob and will bend over backwards to please it regardless of the negative consequences is toothless and weak.

You complain about strawman arguments but you just engaged in a false equivalence which reeks of hypocrisy. Both being logical fallacies.

 

[SeltzerMist]

Thread: Why is the US terrorizing Venezuela?

Foxi: No one wants to pay taxes!

 

[Foxi4]

You complain about strawman arguments but you just engaged in a false equivalence which reeks of hypocrisy. Both being logical fallacies.

What’s the false equivalence here? My initial position was that people in positions of power are not in a popularity contest and they should be more interested in correctly performing their duties than being people pleasers. What I got back was a bunch of gobbeldygook about me “not liking democracy”. My response to that is very simple - sometimes the government has to make tough decisions that are *not* popular in pursuit of a desirable outcome or perform duties that nobody likes because that’s what’s good and proper per the law of the land or otherwise necessary for the continued function of the country. “Liking” or “not liking” something comes secondary in the event of a higher calling. Some things are simply greater than any one of us individually.

 

[SeltzerMist]

More pseudo intellectual nonsense posted intentionally to exhaust others

 

[Foxi4]

More pseudo intellectual nonsense posted intentionally to exhaust others

You do not have to read or respond to it - it’s a public forum. You elect to do so without anything to add. Nothing is stopping you from ignoring my posts completely besides your low impulse control. The former would be better than posting spam like this, but I’m not your dad, I’m just an online janitor.

 

[SeltzerMist]

You do not have to read or respond to it - it’s a public forum. You elect to do so without anything to add. Nothing is stopping you from ignoring my posts completely besides your low impulse control. The former would be better than posting spam like this, but I’m not your dad, I’m just an online janitor.

An online janitor not following the rules of derailment, which you've done here. I'm just calling it out. Rules for we but not for thee huh

 

[Foxi4]

An online janitor not following the rules of derailment, which you've done here. I'm just calling it out. Rules for we but not for thee huh

You’re free to report me if you like, you know where the button is, I’m not stopping you. We were having a conversation about positions of power, this topic often comes up when discussing politics. If other mods think this is off-topic then they’re welcome to delete the entire exchange. I’m subject to the same rules as everybody else. It is my opinion that a conversation can drift in all sorts of directions and so long as it’s still tangentially related to the topic, it’s entirely permissible. In this instance the main topic is a wildly unpopular move by the U.S. government against the president of Venezuela - a textbook example of the government doing something the electorate doesn’t approve of, but what it believed was necessary.

 

[titan_tim]

What’s the false equivalence here? My initial position was that people in positions of power are not in a popularity contest and they should be more interested in correctly performing their duties than being people pleasers. What I got back was a bunch of gobbeldygook about me “not liking democracy”. My response to that is very simple - sometimes the government has to make tough decisions that are *not* popular in pursuit of a desirable outcome or perform duties that nobody likes because that’s what’s good and proper per the law of the land or otherwise necessary for the continued function of the country. “Liking” or “not liking” something comes secondary in the event of a higher calling. Some things are simply greater than any one of us individually.

That was definitely a false equivalency. Along with a strawman thrown in there.

Blaze was arguing for democratic legitimacy and consent. Then you reframed it to 'People don't like bureaucracy'. That's a strawman.

It's also false equivalency when you equate enforcing existing law (IRS/DMV/Etc.) with elected officials deciding new policy against what the voters want.

“Unpopular but necessary” still needs voter buy-in, accountability and necessity, otherwise it's just "Trust me bro, I'm smarter than you".

 

[Foxi4]

That was definitely a false equivalency. Along with a strawman thrown in there.

Blaze was arguing for democratic legitimacy and consent. Then you reframed it to 'People don't like bureaucracy'. That's a strawman.

It's also false equivalency when you equate enforcing existing law (IRS/DMV/Etc.) with elected officials deciding new policy against what the voters want.

“Unpopular but necessary” still needs voter buy-in, accountability and necessity, otherwise it's just "Trust me bro, I'm smarter than you".

The voters are free to voice their discontent, either at the ballot box or by exercising their first amendment right by assembling peaceably to redress grievances. The fact that discontent exists in no way delegitimizes the government’s pre-existing responsibilities.