Hacking Are Gateway+its clones' days numbered in terms of rom support?

[arlips]

So I read that Nintendo is now making devs use SDK version 7 to make games and that it's impossible for Gateway's hack method to support it, since Gateway's hardware/hack is built around an older SDK mode which is incompatible with SDK7 games on a fundamental level. So does this mean that in the very near future, Gateway will hit a wall and no new games will be supported and our libraries will be static? Or will there be a way to patch roms to work with SDK6 and earlier (I'm assuming this requires rom decryption to be solved first)?

 

[JoJodude]

Whats' "Gateway"

 

[Duo8]

They could still update it.

 

[arlips]

Are you sure on this or just assuming because they've gotten games that didn't work before to work? From the place I read it, apparently the Gateway hardware itself and its method of hacking is incompatible with SDK7, so I'm wondering if they would have to change the hardware itself and sell new versions instead of being able to simply update the FW.

 

[Duo8]

Are you sure on this or just assuming because they've gotten games that didn't work before to work? From the place I read it, apparently the Gateway hardware itself and its method of hacking is incompatible with SDK7, so I'm wondering if they would have to change the hardware itself and sell new versions instead of being able to simply update the FW.

Well, we'll have to wait to see what SDK7 actually does. But if it's just software then there might be a way.

 

[lambstone]

Are you sure on this or just assuming because they've gotten games that didn't work before to work? From the place I read it, apparently the Gateway hardware itself and its method of hacking is incompatible with SDK7, so I'm wondering if they would have to change the hardware itself and sell new versions instead of being able to simply update the FW.

Yeah well. Where did you read that from?

 

[Foxi4]

By your logic, 3DS flash carts shouldn't be able to launch games built on SDK's later than the one used in 4.5 FW. This problem has already been solved by introducing EmuNAND - games using later firmwares are simply launched on a separate, up-to-date emulated NAND. That way, they can be launched in their native environment and there's nothing Nintendo can do about it unless they figure out a way for the OFW to detect that it's not being launched from the NAND chip.

 

[Duo8]

By your logic, 3DS flash carts shouldn't be able to launch games built on SDK's later than the one used in 4.5 FW. This problem has already been solved by introducing EmuNAND - games using later firmwares are simply launched on a separate, up-to-date emulated NAND. That way, they can be launched in their native environment and there's nothing Nintendo can do about it unless they figure out a way for the OFW to detect that it's not being launched from the NAND chip.

EmuNAND still have that save encryption problem though. SDK7 games might have a new enc. method and the game might be designed to not start w/out proper save enc.

 

[Huntereb]

There will always be updates from Nintendo on these things to try to stop pirating, but they won't succeed. Gateway and any other developer on the scene will have plenty of praise for bypassing it, so it's not much of an issue that we should be worrying about at the moment.

 

[Foxi4]

EmuNAND still have that save encryption problem though. SDK7 games might have a new enc. method and the game might be designed to not start w/out proper save enc.

It's all possibilities, yes, but not something that can't be eliminated in the long run. Fact of the matter is, Nintendo dun goofed with the early firmwares and developers have full access to the hardware. They can protect their future systems, but there's little they can do about those already running 4.5, much like it was the case with the PS3 and 3.55 FW.

 

[arlips]

I don't remember where I read it from but it was here at GBAtemp, a few days ago. They made it sound like SDK7 was a possible impending doom for the Gateway hack method (regardless of its firmware) that would make support for future roms hit a brick wall and I was just touching here to see if there was someone with a bit more knowledge on the technical side of things that could clear it up.

If I had the gumption I would e-mail Gateway about it directly but I'd rather their time be spent less on answering e-mails and more on getting the 2.0 FW out there.

 

[profi200]

SDK 7.X+ games use the new crypto by default. The generation method is similar to the savegame keyY method and can't be bypassed in any way without a bootrom dump or 7.X+ exploit.

Is this the end? Probably not, but it will stop pirating every game build with the new SDK for a long time.



€:
My Mustard: Have fun playing the waiting game, if it begins, while i play everything legit without any problem

 

[arlips]

So it's true, then? I wonder what the chances are of getting the bootrom dumped since I doubt we'll be seeing a totally new firmware exploit anytime soon (if ever) unless that other guy wasn't blowing wind about gaining access to the kernel via a new softmod method.

 

[profi200]

It's all on 3dbrew. Just read it. YouTube and Poké-Bank are the first titles using the new crypto.

that other guy wasn't blowing wind about gaining access to the kernel via a new softmod method.

I can't remember seeing someone claiming this. That must be a troll. There is nothing.

 

[Mr_Pichu]

It's all on 3dbrew. Just read it. YouTube and Poké-Bank are the first titles using the new crypto.
I can't remember seeing someone claiming this. That must be a troll. There is nothing.

Yes, I remember reading about a new crypto method which is being used in new titles like the ones indicated. Something about a keyY init being called in the boot process, thus foiling emunand mode as it is currently implemented. Just another challenge for hackers...

For more details about this new crypto see: NCCH Specs

 

[dragonmaster]

speculations ,speculation etc etc oh my god it is doom day cause we speculate it to be ,it is like those conspiracy theories of Mayan prophecy etc ,wait and see if it is true then if it is for myself i already depreciate my gateway as i will have so many games on a cart (matter of convince,portability and shovel ware games money saver) that i wont care untill is something sure i aint listen to no ones rumors

 

[tHciNc]

By your logic, 3DS flash carts shouldn't be able to launch games built on SDK's later than the one used in 4.5 FW. This problem has already been solved by introducing EmuNAND - games using later firmwares are simply launched on a separate, up-to-date emulated NAND. That way, they can be launched in their native environment and there's nothing Nintendo can do about it unless they figure out a way for the OFW to detect that it's not being launched from the NAND chip.

Actually 1.2 fixed the SDK 5+ issues regarding the icon location etc, EmuNAND isnt needed, and with full control of the kernel, they can do whatever they want, just more heresay people hear and they pass on as gospel, just because we are on firmware 7.x, doesnt mean SDK ver will align, we are still seeing sdk 4.x games with majority built on sdk 5.x still , there arent even any SDK 6.x games out, as if devs way into developement are going to rebuild on a newer SDK, just cause random forums say nintendo says so, there are certain apps built on the new crypto, but the focus isnt getting youtube to run on a shitty small screen, who the hell even bothers with YT on the 3ds when we have Smartphones,Tablets, Tvs, consoles and computer for it, all teams main focus #1 is for rom compatabilty, the access is there, so a workaround will be aswell.... Everything takes time, whos to say they dont just find a way to add and to set NCCH flag[3] to 0

 

[Nismax]

Does it really matter? Have you looked at the upcoming release schedule? It's trash, it doesn't really matter if they are supported or not IMO.

 

[gamesquest1]

Think it's just a case of "wait and see" the fact datel managed to get the 6.x keys for pokemon saves etc is a good sign that more is possible in terms of breaking the security of the system than what is currently known publicly

 

[Arras]

speculations ,speculation etc etc oh my god it is doom day cause we speculate it to be ,it is like those conspiracy theories of Mayan prophecy etc ,wait and see if it is true then if it is for myself i already depreciate my gateway as i will have so many games on a cart (matter of convince,portability and shovel ware games money saver) that i wont care untill is something sure i aint listen to no ones rumors

What profi said is not speculation, it's pretty much fact that 7+ has a new encryption that Gateway can't handle yet (and it'll probably take a looong time before they will considering their track record with Pokemon). It's why Youtube and Pokebank are not working on emunand.