Gaming Why is Nintendo so STINGY with Virtual Console games?

[duffmmann]

In the famicom version of Super Mario Bros. 3, if you got hit you turned to small mario no matter what item mario was using

In the NES version of Super Mario Bros. 3, if you got hit, you only turn to small mario if you are hit as big mario. If you're a fire mario, racoon mario or else you turn to big mario.

They're still considered the same game

I don't think the fact that you have the option to scroll faster in SMB2 makes it a different game than Doki Doki Panic

Those are considerably different things. Its not like Japan later received a version of Mario 3 called Super Mario Bros. 3 USA. The reason is that one fact alone isn't a big deal. Doki Doki vs. SMB2 are quite different. Obviously the skin alone is reason to sell it again in Japan later on. But being able to run fast does change the game significantly, certain shortcuts can't be achieved like they can in SMB2/USA on Doki Doki. I almost always played as Luigi because of his speed when running. I've played Doki Doki and its just so slow that I can't play it for very long. Obviously its not a completely different game, but its different enough for me to differentiate between the two.


Anyways, the reason the Japan VC received Mario USA before we've received Mario 3 which was already out there, is because they want to release the Mario games in the proper orders for their region. We weren't going to get Mario, then the Lost levels, then Mario 3, and then Mario 2, that just wouldn't make sense to those that don't know about the history of the game. So naturally we had to wait for Mario USA to get released in Japan first, and we'll receive it soon as Mario 2 obviously, and then we'll get Mario 3 soon after. (I totally called this in a different topic on this forum a couple months back).

 

[RodrigoDavy]

Those are considerably different things. Its not like Japan later received a version of Mario 3 called Super Mario Bros. 3 USA. The reason is that one fact alone isn't a big deal. Doki Doki vs. SMB2 are quite different. Obviously the skin alone is reason to sell it again in Japan later on. But being able to run fast does change the game significantly, certain shortcuts can't be achieved like they can in SMB2/USA on Doki Doki. I almost always played as Luigi because of his speed when running. I've played Doki Doki and its just so slow that I can't play it for very long. Obviously its not a completely different game, but its different enough for me to differentiate between the two.

Super Mario Bros USA = Doki Doki Panic with Mario characters, much less difficulty and slightly improved graphics. Truth is, they just sold the same game using a different name to boost sales in Japan, since Doki Doki Panic wasn't exactly a best-seller.

If how fast you can play a game was such a great difference, then Pal versions of game would be considered different games from their NTSC version since they work at different speeds

 

[duffmmann]

Super Mario Bros USA = Doki Doki Panic with Mario characters, much less difficulty and slightly improved graphics. Truth is, they just sold the same game using a different name to boost sales in Japan, since Doki Doki Panic wasn't exactly a best-seller.

If how fast you can play a game was such a great difference, then Pal versions of game would be considered different games from their NTSC version since they work at different speeds

I understand what you're trying to say, but again its just not the same, and you know it. I mean certain features have a different effect on gameplay, yes, obviously the games have the same level designs, and their characters have the same traits, but the characters look different, and they have a different ability. If these two games truly were the same, then Japan would have never released Super Mario USA inside Japan. Obviously they aren't the same, its not hard to see this. Sure, they are little tweaks, but they're also bigger than the Mario 3 tweak you mentioned. You aren't going to change my perception on how the games are incredibly similar, but also not the same. And clearly I'm not going to change your perception on how they're apparently the exact same game.

 

[RodrigoDavy]

I understand what you're trying to say, but again its just not the same, and you know it. I mean certain features have a different effect on gameplay, yes, obviously the games have the same level designs, and their characters have the same traits, but the characters look different, and they have a different ability. If these two games truly were the same, then Japan would have never released Super Mario USA inside Japan. Obviously they aren't the same, its not hard to see this. Sure, they are little tweaks, but they're also bigger than the Mario 3 tweak you mentioned. You aren't going to change my perception on how the games are incredibly similar, but also not the same. And clearly I'm not going to change your perception on how they're apparently the exact same game.

That's my last argument, I swear!

Remember how SMB 1, 2, 3 and Lost Levels were remade for the All-Star game?

Some aspects of these games have changed in the super nes version. They give you the ability to save, they improved the graphics, they made changes in the way mario and luigi moves which altered gameplay significantly but they are still considered the same games.

The gba version of super mario world even made changes in Luigi's sprite and movements, making him look different and jump higher but move slower than Mario.

I'll even use a metaphore. I like to play the guitar and I have the choice to use a pick or my finger to play the strings. Using a pick make the guitar sound louder and make it easier to play one or two strings rapidly. Using my fingers make the sound quieter but smoothier and make it easier to play string alternatedely. Some prefer using a pick other using their finger, but it's still the same song no matter how the player choose to play it.

 

[XDel]

I think what they ought to do is make more games available as part of a reward system in various game releases. So let's say your are playing New Super Wario Yarn Land or something, and you acquire X amount of coins, or gems or what ever, X being an exceptional amount for this game title. This achievement, then if you choose in your settings, can then instantly be sent into your Nintendo Shop account which can then in turn be used as credits of specially selected titles that can only be bought with game credits and not actual cash.

The way I see it, Nintendo and other companies can only cash in on old titles for so long before the market in them begin to fall out. There are those certain classics which I'm sure they could charge for for years to come, but many of them do tend to become redundant once everyone and their grandma who has learned to text now has easy access to these retro titles and more. There is no way that all even them, not even just the well known and not so well no sleepers, are going to survive the market for ever. They might as well start taking a big chunk of the better titles and releasing them in a fun in unique fashion like the once I have mentioned here. I feel that it would be in the spirit of Nintendo and in the spirit of gaming, not to mention drive one to better and to play more...


...thus keeping you in a mindless drone like state while the Japanese sweep in and invade your countries just like Red Dawn, but with more Patrick Swayze. At least I think that is what Satoru Iwata promised during his opening of the WiiU video, but my Japanese isn't the best, so he might have meant, less Swayze, I'm not sure.

 

[The Milkman]

I suppose if you frequent flea markets, you have a point. That really doesn't mean anything though for those of us who don't live near one, though.

And idk, maybe it's just different in your country. But I've never see a game on ebay or amazon for anywhere less than $5 at minimum for a decent retro game (the only exception being Metroid Prime Hunters: First Hunt at like $0.75, and that's just a demo cart).

And I see your point about the emulator features, but there's a difference between "mediocre" and "simplified." Nintendo's official emulators are designed for one thing, and one thing only: Being able to play retro games digitally from the comfort of your newest system, with a save state thrown in for games that lack save features, and so you can play in short bursts on the go. They're not meant for the billions of other things that homebrew emulators are meant for.

I just picked up a GC with 5 games for less then 25 bucks the other day, I just went to a thrift store, usually they are packed with old console (especially PSX's and N64s) Ebay and Amazon are horrid places to look for retro games. Often sellers actually know how much the product is worth and rack it up so they can make back the cash they spent on it.

If Nintendo builds their emulators short of what I could get an emulator on hundreds of other devices for free, its not worth the money to me. Maybe if most games were under 3 bucks or so I would bite, but other then that its a waste of cash. And theres no excuse to them NOT putting in those features, its just code so it wont take up anymore space then normal (or atleast anything noticable), I doubt it would take them that long to optimize those features so the emulator still runs smooth. Look at the genesis VC, that emulator is one of the best ive seen on a console in a while. I dont see anyone complaining about that.

 

[The Milkman]

Due to copyrights, we'll never get a Goldeneye port for the Wii/Wii U/3DS.

I was looking forward to that game the MOST from the Wii's VC... And it will never happen unless it's emulated. :/ It's pretty sad that my old Brick of an original Xbox can emulate Goldeneye near-flawlessly, but the Wii struggles and chokes. It's not only poor coding, but the Wii console's hardware leaves much to be desired. The Wii U is what the Wii should have been to begin with... able to keep up with the PS3 and the 360 with HDMI output. Too little, too late if you ask me.

Did I miss something here?

 

[the_randomizer]

Aaaand this is why I'm sticking with unofficial emulators.

 

[TripleSMoon]

I just picked up a GC with 5 games for less then 25 bucks the other day, I just went to a thrift store, usually they are packed with old console (especially PSX's and N64s) Ebay and Amazon are horrid places to look for retro games. Often sellers actually know how much the product is worth and rack it up so they can make back the cash they spent on it.

If Nintendo builds their emulators short of what I could get an emulator on hundreds of other devices for free, its not worth the money to me. Maybe if most games were under 3 bucks or so I would bite, but other then that its a waste of cash. And theres no excuse to them NOT putting in those features, its just code so it wont take up anymore space then normal (or atleast anything noticable), I doubt it would take them that long to optimize those features so the emulator still runs smooth. Look at the genesis VC, that emulator is one of the best ive seen on a console in a while. I dont see anyone complaining about that.

I suppose if you live in an area where that's common (finding good games in thrift shops for cheap), I can see your point.

But I still disagree on the overpriced bit. I personally find it hard to believe that age should make classics like Super Metroid, Super Mario World, and other games that still hold up well truly worth much less than a sixth of their original monetary value (if the original price of those games is roughly $50, and the VC version with off-TV play and save state functionality is $8, that is indeed less than 1/6 the original value).

Is playing them free on an emulator or finding them for really cheap in the thrift shop a better deal? Of course. But that doesn't make the official VC versions overpriced. That would be like finding a raher used, but still good pair of shoes at the thrift shop for $5 and calling the same shoes on sale for $10 new at the shoe store overpriced.

Tl; dr there's a difference between calling something "overpriced" and calling something "not the best deal out there." Yeah, i know, maybe that's a bit nitpicky of me, but I feel it's an important distinction.

 

[Issac]

I didn't said or think about it. I said I read it somewhere (wish I could remember where I read that)

Yes I understand that, and I didn't say you said it.
What I meant was, that the thing you read somewhere probably was about the 3d classics, and not VC titles.

Iwata: So at first it looked like you would merely port it, but it actually turned out to be a lot of work! (laughs) I would guess it was about 20 times the work of merely porting it?

Source

Nakano mentioned that Tennis for the NES was considered, but applying the 3D effect to a game that already simulated it wasn't very impressive. If that wasn't enough, actually hitting the tennis ball with the 3D turned on proved challenging. "It took as much work as making a tennis game from scratch... we had to conclude that the resultant value would not be worth our hard work, so we scrapped it," Nakano concluded.

Source

 

[Jayro]

Did I miss something here?

I was talking about the N64 game, if you missed it. I liked the Remake Activision did, but it hardly compared to the original game by Rareware.

 

[RedCoreZero]

Each app has a built-in emulator, there's no Virtual Console "sandbox". That's because Nintendo has decided to build a slightly different emulator for each game so that they maximize performance. On the Wii, you can actually mix and match, injecting different ROM's into different emulator "cores", sometimes ending up with working games that are otherwise unavailable on standard Virtual Console.

While nostalgia plays a big part for me when I play older games, I wont go out and buy them.We have the internet available to use and lets be honest, everyone has at least thought of pirating games, especially old ones.
Still, you guys are probably right. gamefan5's point about newcomers is actually a really good one.

Everyone on this site pirates now,except some new guys and people who don't know what this site originally was meant for.

 

[Foxi4]

I was talking about the N64 game, if you missed it. I liked the Remake Activision did, but it hardly compared to the original game by Rareware.

It REALLY didn't age well, JayRo. It was fantastic (for console standards) back in the day, but nowadays... uhm... A matter of taste and a lot of the Nostalgia Factor.

 

[pasc]

Japanese are hardcore!
I remember that too... I grew up with the pirated famicom cart version (the one that you could choose whatever item you want from the get-go )

You can tell that to the Rockman Zero games.

Man, we need more VC games.

 

[The Milkman]

I was talking about the N64 game, if you missed it. I liked the Remake Activision did, but it hardly compared to the original game by Rareware.

Oh, you mean like VC? Sorry, when you said Remake it threw me off.

 

[TripleSMoon]

Everyone on this site pirates now,except some new guys and people who don't know what this site originally was meant for.

That literally makes no sense. Tons of people who weren't around when this site used to host ROMs got on here for, surprise surprise, Nintendo and general game discussion, whether they know the site's origins or not. That would be like saying all white southerners are racist, except for some new guys who don't know what the South used to do (enslave black people).

 

[RedCoreZero]

That literally makes no sense. Tons of people who weren't around when this site used to host ROMs got on here for, surprise surprise, Nintendo and general game discussion, whether they know the site's origins or not. That would be like saying all white southerners are racist, except for some new guys who don't know what the South used to do (enslave black people).

Well when you put it like that...

 

[reprep]

i won't buy anything from VC or buy digital games for 3DS. there is still no digital account, content is locked to one device and way too overpriced.

i buy old games for cheap and play them on their original consoles or via emulators in newer consoles. it is not illegal in any way, plus those emulators are generally much better than official ones (take the ones on wii).

 

[RodrigoDavy]

plus those emulators are generally much better than official ones (take the ones on wii).

Try playing Pokémon Snap in a emulator...

 

[TripleSMoon]

i won't buy anything from VC or buy digital games for 3DS. there is still no digital account, content is locked to one device and way too overpriced.

i buy old games for cheap and play them on their original consoles or via emulators in newer consoles. it is not illegal in any way, plus those emulators are generally much better than official ones (take the ones on wii).

Why not just buy the virtual console versions for cheap, and then emulate them however you want? Theoretically, it's just as morally right (either way, you own a copy of the game, whether it be digital or physical), and often they're cheaper than the physical cartridges.

And it's definitely not true of N64 games that homebrew emulators work better than the official wii ones...