When is pirating ok? (discussion)

[Valwin]

While the developer isn't talking advantage of our human nature and our need to have fun with games when they price it for 60 dollars? And if you could download a lamborghini right out of your apartment for free I am pretty sure you would.

i can have fun for free using my hand

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I hardly see it as tough love but rather greed. Publishers and retailers can sell games at a decent price and i'm sure consumers would be overjoyed. I know I would thrilled to see new games released at $40 locally and I would gladly buy it cause I know its worth the purchase but to release it at $60 to $80 I rather buy online or pirate if the former isn't available. Even more so on older gen consoles like the PSP and as much as I love it I can hardly justify paying $80 for a PSP game when its not even a collector's item or a bundle, so I rather pirate those games.

I made an example earlier with Photoshop and while its not a game just google it and see how much it costs and see how I can easily rationalize pirating it. I personally would gladly buy games for any console until it can be hacked and open to piracy and that could take years and I don't mind but I just get annoyed whenever people say its wrong and just play the "morals" or "ethics" card cause its the only thing that cna be played.

Might be me but I don't have that moral thing that everyone else seem to have and while I justify my piracy as form of financial saving so I can buy other games I hardly see a real problem with it. Just to note I don't sit at home all day pirating games, I do it whenever I see something I like.

But cost doesn't matter. This is a luxury, you can charge whatever you want for it because it's certainly not necessary. They only keep the prices as low as they do because they know any higher would alienate actual consumers.

Also, accounted for inflation, games today are cheaper than games from way back when.

I have no issue if someone says "I pirate because I can't afford games" so long as they don't try to justify it morally.

 

[Filipe C Bello dos Santos]

I don't know why you guys use this "if you can't pay, you shouldn't play!" statement if you guys use pirated stuff.

 

[gifi4]

I admire the work on the gaming industry that big companies do... I am just not willing to get ripped off for it

You are truly, one of the stupidest human beings that I could ever expect to live on this planet.
Honestly, no matter how much gaming you do in your everyday life, it can and never will be a need. You can WANT it more than other things but you do not NEED it. (Note: I'm not referring to the post I quoted, that was just to notify you of the post)
Do you really think Game Programming was a job back when no games existed. Ofcourse it wasn't. Games never used to exist.
You have totally mixed up your own argument. You should have stated that human beings need entertainment. You know what existed before video games? Jokes, as well as many other forms of entertainment. Hell, you have a brain, therefore you have an imagination. An imagination can be a form of entertainment.

Anyway, to the topic at hand:
Piracy is illegal (In most of the world, I believe) so theoretically it is never alright to pirate. However breaking laws is a given in this world. Some laws obviously shouldn't be broken however some aren't as high on the ladder of importance. Having said that, depending on the perspective you look at it, piracy can be good and bad.

The law: You are not allowed to pirate therefore it is not ok to do so.
The Police: The police uphold the law but they also have their own brain and can control themselves so some will say that it's alright whilst others will continue to uphold the law.

I can keep listing perspectives, and if I did so, you'd notice that considering everyone is different, everyone has a different view point.

Basically, the law states that it is not ok to pirate.
So, even if you think, "Hmm, I'm low on cash and this awesome game is coming out" or "Hmm... This game won't be released in my country for 3 more years and it's out in that country" and you pirate it, it's illegal. No matter how you look at it, it's illegal.
Does that stop people doing it?
Ofcourse not, laws get broken every day. Not every citizen will follow them.
Pirates will always exist. (Not just out on the sea).
So, like I said, no matter how you look at it, it's illegal.
I pirate, I know many people who also pirate. I also know people who won't pirate a thing. They are the people who aren't breaking the law.

So what I'm saying is, no matter the situation, pirating is not ok. You can continue to do so though as many others also break laws and those behaviours won't stop anytime soon.

 

[Foxi4]

I hardly see it as tough love but rather greed. (stuff follows...)

...And?

It's their software. They can price it however they want. I don't think we're on the same page here, this is how the market works - you create a product, set its price according to what you, the creator think is apropriate and sell it. The fact that you cannot afford it in no way justifies pirating it - there are alternative programs, some are even free that are ready for the grabs. Photoshop is for professional designers who have the money to afford the program. Greedy or not, it's their right to price their own product at a level they find appropriate.

I don't know why you guys use this "if you can't pay, you shouldn't play!" statement if you guys use pirated stuff.

Nobody said "you shouldn't" - the argument was whether it is morally right or wrong to pirate software that you cannot afford, and the answer to that is "it's wrong" - the rest depends on whether it bothers you or not. Nobody's going to tell you to immediately stop pirating software or any other media, but when bullsh*t excuses come into play, be ready to be called up on them.

 

[retKHAAAN]

Yeah, I know. I used Napster back then!

What I really meant was just how much the average people see pirating music as normal and acceptable, but when it comes to games they find it unacceptable. Once again, another case of double standards

That's quite the assumption. What constitutes an "average person"? I don't pirate anything. Not music. Not games. Not movies. Not software. Nothing. Does that make me any less average?

 

[sero]

So apparently playing and enjoying gaming is only for the rich and not everyone, way to enforce class equality.

This mentality is one of the unfortunate societal problems we face today. You might as well have said, "So apparently having a ten bedroom house and enjoying 8,000 square feet of space is only for the rich and not everyone, way to enforce class equality."

You may be entitled to equal opportunity but you are not entitled to equal results. Games are expensive so people without as much money can't buy them. That's fine. The only reason it is up for a moral discussion is because the ability exists to acquire those games with little chance of legal repercussion. I know it sucks that people don't all have nice things, but that's the way the world works. It isn't a class warfare thing--it's the fact that in an economic system there are generally only two results: one where some people win and others lose based on opportunity, chance and drive (capitalism), or a system where everyone is given equal results achievable only by bringing down everyone to the lowest results level for the sake of equality (communism/socialism).

I'm getting a bit off on a tangent here but I don't think we should use class warfare/rich versus poor as an argument for why crime should be allowed. Especially in a world where so many kids sit at home and do nothing when just a couple days a week mowing grass for neighbors would allow them to buy the newest and best game systems and games. It's what I had to do growing up and I don't think it's screwed me up having to make my own way.

 

[Just Another Gamer]

...And?

It's their software. They can price it however they want. I don't think we're on the same page here, this is how the market works - you create a product, set its price according to what you, the creator think is apropriate and sell it. The fact that you cannot afford it in no way justifies pirating it - there are alternative programs, some are even free that are ready for the grabs. Photoshop is for professional designers who have the money to afford the program. Greedy or not, it's their right to price their own product at a level they find appropriate.

I don't think you realize that from the original company to the publisher then the retailer somehow the price suddenly gets jacked up for no reason apart from greed. I mean it could start off at a reasonable $50 then somehow become $80 in store and somehow that's reasonable?
It still doesn't remove the option of pirating it either which is my point you can shove all the moral and ethical shit down people's throat all day and sure in 100 people you might change the mind of 1 person or even 2 but to expect people to feel guity about it is just plain stupid and weird. Also if you must know when you study any type of design at uni they want you to have a copy of photoshop for homework assignments and they really don't care if you pirate it or not but just saying pricing it in the hundreds for a photo editing program is nothing more than being a greedy bastard.

This mentality is one of the unfortunate societal problems we face today. You might as well have said, "So apparently having a ten bedroom house and enjoying 8,000 square feet of space is only for the rich and not everyone, way to enforce class equality."

You may be entitled to equal opportunity but you are not entitled to equal results. Games are expensive so people without as much money can't buy them. That's fine. The only reason it is up for a moral discussion is because the ability exists to acquire those games with little chance of legal repercussion. I know it sucks that people don't all have nice things, but that's the way the world works. It isn't a class warfare thing--it's the fact that in an economic system there are generally only two results: one where some people win and others lose based on opportunity, chance and drive (capitalism), or a system where everyone is given equal results achievable only by bringing down everyone to the lowest results level for the sake of equality (communism/socialism).

I'm getting a bit off on a tangent here but I don't think we should use class warfare/rich versus poor as an argument for why crime should be allowed. Especially in a world where so many kids sit at home and do nothing when just a couple days a week mowing grass for neighbors would allow them to buy the newest and best game systems and games. It's what I had to do growing up and I don't think it's screwed me up having to make my own way.

I'm not saying none of us have to work to get the stuff we want, I know I have to but that doesn't change that those who aren't so well off like I am don't always have cash to spend and if I want something I have to look at the alternatives and for gaming piracy is the alternative. I have no particular problem with it and if I had the opportunity to buy the game I want I would but like every other average person out there I have to work and save up for it.

I know what I said could be interpreted wrong but the whole moral point for me is just the rich man having a hissy fit because they aren't getting that billion they wanted. I'm not sure if you get my point since i'm shit with words.

 

[Filipe C Bello dos Santos]

I agree with you foxi, excuse is bullshit and will not change the fact, but you can't deny that for everything we do there is a reason, there's a lot of factors that may or not lead someone to pirate. A reason for pirate is not bullshit and it not an excuse, some says: "I pirate because i don't want to pay", others because "the price is too high", or "because i think sw companies rip us off with that high prices".

There also beliefs, one can believe that piracy is not wrong even when they know that it is. In your beliefs you know it's illegal and no one is going to change that.

There's no reason for the pitchforks and hate just because someone thinks differently.

I use cracked sw, play roms and listen to MP3, and i don't like the business model in Brazil, that's why i pirate, i don't find it wrong, but i know it's not the right thing to do. and never gonna stop it.

 

[Foxi4]

I don't think you realize that from the original company to the publisher then the retailer somehow the price suddenly gets jacked up for no reason apart from greed. I mean it could start off at a reasonable $50 then somehow become $80 in store and somehow that's reasonable?
It still doesn't remove the option of pirating it either which is my point you can shove all the moral and ethical shit down people's throat all day and sure in 100 people you might change the mind of 1 person or even 2 but to expect people to feel guity about it is just plain stupid and weird. Also if you must know when you study any type of design at uni they want you to have a copy of photoshop for homework assignments and they really don't care if you pirate it or not but just saying pricing it in the hundreds for a photo editing program is nothing more than being a greedy bastard.

I'm not saying none of us have to work to get the stuff we want, I know I have to but that doesn't change that those who aren't so well off like I am don't always have cash to spend and if I want something I have to look at the alternatives and for gaming piracy is the alternative. I have no particular problem with it and if I had the opportunity to buy the game I want I would but like every other average person out there I have to work and save up for it.

I know what I said could be interpreted wrong but the whole moral point for me is just the rich man having a hissy fit because they aren't getting that billion they wanted. I'm not sure if you get my point since i'm shit with words.

I don't expect you to feel guilty, I expect you to accept the fact that what you're doing is not justifiable, and you're desperately trying to justify it. For all intents and purposes, Photoshop could cost $3000 and it would still be equally unjustifiable to pirate it because that's the price point set by the publisher and that's it.

I pirate stuff too, but at the very least I don't make up silly reasons as to why I do it - I just pirate stuff because it's convenient for me. It's highly likely that when I get a steady job I'll stop, even if for the sake of the benefits original copies have over pirated ones alone.

And I assure you, universities do not require you to have Photoshop unless you specifically sign up for a Photoshop course, in which case you should probably consider the fact that you'll need Photoshop beforehand. University-level education is optional and expensive, so no Columbus-level discoveries here. If they require you to have expensive software, they either provide you with a free copy you can borrow or give you a good deal for it. I'm at university right now and guess what? We're using GIMP, which is free. So there, point nullified.

 

[Rydian]

Since the topic came up...

Time-lapse of a full digital painting illustration with Mypaint / Alchemy and Gimp on Linux. ( only free and open-source application compatible with other system too ; ex : Windows ).

 

[Foxi4]

Since the topic came up...

BUT IT'S NOT PHOTOSHOP! T.T

//Le Sarcasm

 

[Just Another Gamer]

I don't expect you to feel guilty, I expect you to accept the fact that what you're doing is not justifiable, and you're desperately trying to justify it. For all intents and purposes, Photoshop could cost $3000 and it would still be equally unjustifiable to pirate it because that's the price point set by the publisher and that's it. I pirate stuff too, but at the very least I don't make up silly reasons as to why I do it - I just pirate stuff because it's convenient for me. It's highly likely that when I get a steady job I'll stop, even if for the sake of the benefits original copies have over pirated ones.

And I assure you, universities do not require you to have Photoshop. If they require you to have expensive software, they either provide you with a free copy you can borrow or give you a good deal for it. I'm at university right now and guess what? We're using GIMP, which is free. So there, point nullified.

No I did justify it but it is only you who can't accept it. If it cost $3000 then that is even more reason to pirate it and shove it in the publisher's face that selling at a ridiculous price will just encourage people to pirate it, I assure you that the reason "because its convenient" is just as ridiculous to me as you saying me not paying the extra high price the publisher wants.

So you are going to uni in Australia? Which one? Cause i'm going to Victoria Uni in Melbourne. Please do some actual research instead of basing everything on yourself.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

No I did justify it but it is only you who can't accept it. If it cost $3000 then that is even more reason to pirate it and shove it in the publisher's face that selling at a ridiculous price will just encourage people to pirate it, I assure you that the reason "because its convenient" is just as ridiculous to me as you saying me not paying the extra high price the publisher wants.

So you are going to uni in Australia? Which one? Cause i'm going to Victoria Uni in Melbourne. Please do some actual research instead of basing everything on yourself.

Photoshop is also a highly complex tool and almost an industry standard to an extent. There's a reason they charge so much for it.

 

[Rydian]

The people who require Photoshop for their job are the people who make a personal profit off of it anyways, or are in a professional environment where the company as a whole profits (and has licenses for the employees).

Like some of the screenshots and images we've seen from Nintendo for the Wii U have Photoshop (CS4/5) tagged in the EXIF data because the employees were given it to use for doctoring up images (as well as batch functions).

 

[Foxi4]

No I did justify it but it is only you who can't accept it. If it cost $3000 then that is even more reason to pirate it and shove it in the publisher's face that selling at a ridiculous price will just encourage people to pirate it, I assure you that the reason "because its convenient" is just as ridiculous to me as you saying me not paying the extra high price the publisher wants.

So you are going to uni in Australia? Which one? Cause i'm going to Victoria Uni in Melbourne. Please do some actual research instead of basing everything on yourself.

You don't seem to understand my point. I pirate because idgaf, I know it's wrong. You pirate because you think it's justifiable when the product you want is too expensive for you to buy. Only one of those approaches is ridiculous. You can't say that pirating something is "okay" just because you think the price is too high, it's not up to you to decide that kind of stuff. As it was said earlier, I might want to have a Lamborghini, but I'm not going to "acquire" one in an illegal fashion just because I can't afford one via normal channels.

Also, name your Course. I just Googled your Uni, having Photoshop is not mentioned as a requirement.

 

[kristianity77]

Does anyone on here who does Pirate get whats known as Pirates Curse? I get it, hence why a console i really want with good games on I actually buy them

 

[Just Another Gamer]

Photoshop is also a highly complex tool and almost an industry standard to an extent. There's a reason they charge so much for it.

I never said its not a good program otherwise I wouldn't be told to use it but I still can't find the price to be resonable at all. I mean I found it at was it $1000 or something or something close to it.

You don't seem to understand my point. I pirate because idgaf, I know it's wrong. You pirate because you think it's justifiable when the product you want is too expensive for you to buy. Only one of those approaches is ridiculous. You can't say that pirating something is "okay" just because you think the price is too high, it's not up to you to decide that kind of stuff. As it was said earlier, I might want to have a Lamborghini, but I'm not going to "acquire" one in an illegal fashion just because I can't afford one via normal channels.

Also, name your Course. I just Googled your Uni, having Photoshop is not mentioned as a requirement in any of the courses.

.

There is a big difference between stealing a car and making a copy of something and using the copy. The only difference I see here is I know the law technically says its wrong but I have no morality regarding to feel anything towards it.

Of course it wouldn't say it as a requirement, its the lecturers that tell you afterwards when you start going to class. Also I believe it was digital media or something.

 

[Foxi4]

Does anyone on here who does Pirate get whats known as Pirates Curse? I get it, hence why a console i really want with good games on I actually buy them

I suppose I had it with the DS - I usually carried 100-or-so games on me and rarely played more than 5 out of'em. I ended up using the SD card for something else and putting a smaller one in the DS, then playing only the games I actually wanted to play.

There is a big difference between stealing a car and making a copy of something and using the copy. The only difference I see here is I know the law technically says its wrong but I have no morality regarding to feel anything towards it.

Of course it wouldn't say it as a requirement, its the lecturers that tell you afterwards when you start going to class. Also I believe it was digital media or something.

I never used the word "steal". Piracy is not stealing, I said that multiple times in this thread - that said, you're still using software you're not entitled to use. All I'm arguing here is that it's morally wrong. Chill.

 

[RodrigoDavy]

That's quite the assumption. What constitutes an "average person"? I don't pirate anything. Not music. Not games. Not movies. Not software. Nothing. Does that make me any less average?

Yes, it does make you less average.

My assumption is based on the greater impact that piracy causes in the phonographic industry compared to the impact it has in the gaming industry. I don't have any links or references since I got this kind of information from TV and magazines, but CD's sales only tends to get lower because of piracy. In gaming it's the other way around, sales tend to increase despite of piracy.

Summing it up, the average person is more used to pirating music than games and thus are more likely to find music piracy more acceptable despite the fact that it's ruining the phonographic industry.