When is pirating ok? (discussion)

[Deleted member 194275]

Don't you mean avarage income in here was R$1049 instead of $1049? Also, you're not considering many people have families, so it's not like it's R$1049 for just one person

I meant USD 1049, not R$ 1049. And it is per capita not per family, and it is average, and it is counting poor people, and poor people do not buy video games anywhere on the world, so mid-class and rich can buy with no problem at all. Game is luxury anyway.

There is two arguments for piracy in Brazil (and in many other similar countries), one argument is the taxes. Bullshit, imported video game taxes in Brazil are 60% just like imported beer, and nobody cry out when buy imported beer (and people here buy A LOT of imported beer).

The other argument is that bullshit that is too expansive for Brazil's standard. The price here is something about 20% and 40% more expansive than USA, and the revenue of Video Games buyer here is (obviously) not the minimum wage.

 

[Zetta_x]

I'd be happy to play old school SNES games. Not sure if I can speak for the majority, but I feel that game developers are intentionally wracking development costs up so they can push smaller game vendors off the map.

 

[ReBirFh]

I meant USD 1049, not R$ 1049. And it is per capita not per family, and it is average, and it is counting poor people, and poor people do not buy video games anywhere on the world, so mid-class and rich can buy with no problem at all. Game is luxury anyway.

There is two arguments for piracy in Brazil (and in many other similar countries), one argument is the taxes. Bullshit, imported video game taxes in Brazil are 60% just like imported beer, and nobody cry out when buy imported beer (and people here buy A LOT of imported beer).

The other argument is that bullshit that is too expansive for Brazil's standard. The price here is something about 20% and 40% more expansive than USA, and the revenue of Video Games buyer here is (obviously) not the minimum wage.

per capita is 1.345 Reais not dollars and per family is around 2.2k (again Reais not dollars) (http://www.tribunahoje.com/noticia/...sileiro-sobe-e-atinge-r-1345-revela-ibge.html), high mid class receiving betweeen R$641 and R$1.019 (mid class totals 54% of the population and excludes the poor from this percentage)(http://www.brasil.gov.br/noticias/a...nda-entre-r-291-e-r-1.019-familiar-per-capita ), You probably have really short memory because 1/2 years ago most games were priced beteween R$170 and R$250 and the cost of importation tax isn't 60%, it's 60% of the price of the product + shipping but for the buyer it actually is "Price of the game + price of shipping + 60% of the price of product + Shipping + 18% of ICMS that is calculated on top of price of product+shipping+importation tax" do a better research before spreading bullshit next time.

 

[Valwin]

I pirate games, only cos i love gaming, but i just can't afford to pay for them. The only things i pirate for is DS and PSP.

yet you can affort the pirate hardware needed to pirated and the hardware

 

[RodrigoDavy]

yet you can affort the pirate hardware needed to pirated and the hardware

You can buy a DSi for $125 if I'm not mistaken. Considering DS games costs about $25 nowadays, you only need to buy 5 games to spend the same amount you spent in the hardware.
Now, if you buy a flashcart instead you will only pay at most $40 and will be able to play any game you like for free.

It's definetely cheaper to pirate.

 

[RodrigoDavy]

was just trolling man... every video game is digital... there is no analog video game.....

Actually I think few of the first video games were analog since they were played in an osciloscope and in a time where digital circuits weren't common.

Aside from that, there's no reason an analog video game couldn't exist... But it would probably not be economically viable.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

I'd be happy to play old school SNES games. Not sure if I can speak for the majority, but I feel that game developers are intentionally wracking development costs up so they can push smaller game vendors off the map.

Then their plan backfired seeing as how the smaller developers are coming out with much better games for a fraction of the costs of big developers.

 

[Sychophantom]

You can buy a DSi for $125 if I'm not mistaken. Considering DS games costs about $25 nowadays, you only need to buy 5 games to spend the same amount you spent in the hardware.
Now, if you buy a flashcart instead you will only pay at most $40 and will be able to play any game you like for free.

It's definetely cheaper to pirate.

If you pay $125 for a DSi nowdays, you're spending way too much.

I can get a DSi, new in box, right now for about 80. Actually considered it, but I have two plus an XL, and never play them.

It's always cheaper to pirate than buy. (I did not say steal. Piracy is copyright infringement, not physically stealing.)

 

[someonewhodied]

To answer TC:
It is ok to pirate a game if you buy it afterwards. (and legal as a "Demo" in some places)
It is ok to pirate region-locked out-of-region games. (They don't count imports as sales anyways)
It is ok to pirate games that are no longer physically available.
It is NOT ok to pirate a game that is available digitally (Steam/XBL Marketplace/ect...)
It is NOT ok to pirate an in-region game that is still in production.

 

[retKHAAAN]

Lol. Pirating is illegal. There are no circumstances that make it any less illegal.

 

[RodrigoDavy]

Lol. Pirating is illegal. There are no circumstances that make it any less illegal.

So is downloading mp3 files, but for some reason people choose to care about pirating games and not about pirating music

 

[Zetta_x]

Then their plan backfired seeing as how the smaller developers are coming out with much better games for a fraction of the costs of big developers.

That's exactly what I'm saying. In my opinion, I completely agree with you. I enjoy these smaller games so much more than these bigger games. So while it's true that high development costs is a reason for high priced games, but I argue that it is not needed. I personally think that if you cannot produce a good game without spending millions, then you are not cut out for the gaming industry.

 

[Gahars]

So is downloading mp3 files, but for some reason people choose to care about pirating games and not about pirating music

People care, alright.

 

[Sychophantom]

People care, alright.

Actually, the RIAA cares, which is only made up of people in the strictest biological sense. Most of them qualify as leeches otherwise.

 

[ReBirFh]

I know this isn't exactly about piracy (and wikipedia not being the pinacle of realibility) but I recommend the following reading because actions like those are what hurts the industry much more than any piracy number they can pull out of their asses (by industry I mean the actual content makers - Developers) and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the same happens with the gaming industry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Accounting

 

[Guild McCommunist]

People care about pirating music, it's just a lot more widespread than games. I mean anyone can pirate music with no issues. It's not like games which require cracks, hacks, special hardware at times, all this stuff. The average computer illiterate can go on some torrent program, search for their album torrent, and download it with no issues. It's just a bunch of mp3s that can go on any music playing device and it doesn't require cracks or hacks.

Also, if you think a blind eye is turned to music piracy, maybe read up on like Napster.

 

[air2004]

People care about pirating music, it's just a lot more widespread than games. I mean anyone can pirate music with no issues. It's not like games which require cracks, hacks, special hardware at times, all this stuff. The average computer illiterate can go on some torrent program, search for their album torrent, and download it with no issues. It's just a bunch of mp3s that can go on any music playing device and it doesn't require cracks or hacks.

Also, if you think a blind eye is turned to music piracy, maybe read up on like Napster.

That was so 90's .... For those of you that don't know what he is talking about ....imagine a girl , any girl that you wanted , she was the hottest thing you ever saw, and she was willing to do anything you ask . That was napster such a beautiful beast .....as for the piracy thing , you will become enslaved to it , I was a slave to it . Just collecting , never using , it gets old after awhile .....maybe you after awhile hasn't happened , but it will

 

[RodrigoDavy]

Also, if you think a blind eye is turned to music piracy, maybe read up on like Napster.

Yeah, I know. I used Napster back then!

What I really meant was just how much the average people see pirating music as normal and acceptable, but when it comes to games they find it unacceptable. Once again, another case of double standards

 

[Janthran]

Yeah, I know. I used Napster back then!

What I really meant was just how much the average people see pirating music as normal and acceptable, but when it comes to games they find it unacceptable. Once again, another case of double standards

Or streaming TV. Nobody seems to care about that, it's just downloading that's bad.. Right?

 

[whinis]

That's exactly what I'm saying. In my opinion, I completely agree with you. I enjoy these smaller games so much more than these bigger games. So while it's true that high development costs is a reason for high priced games, but I argue that it is not needed. I personally think that if you cannot produce a good game without spending millions, then you are not cut out for the gaming industry.

Games take millions for the most part anyways, you have anywhere from 5-10 (smaller games) to 250 people(larger games) people working on the games, for up to 15 years ( looking at you Duke Nukem) but closer to 2 or 3 as well as engines. If you require a publisher then thats an instant 30% off the top and then 15% for transaction cost. I don't believe the current budgets are sustainable however with $100-500 million dollar games including advertising, marketing and testing along with normal cost. Now I believe a nice $5 million is probably good for a large game and possibly $150,000 for small indie developer studios.

That being said I understand why people pirate and looking at the big picture I can't really say its wrong. Whether the pirate buys the game or not its not costing anyone money, many times you will get a better experience due to DRM, and when you consider just moving a game from one hard drive to another is technically copyright infringement and that letting friends play your games is like pirating whether they get to keep a copy or not. I believe a moral argument has been somehow made where the is none, just a few years ago(10) there would be outrage if you left out lan play or made a game require constant internet connection however now while there is outrage it seems to have polarized into either your a pirate if you don't want it or fanboy if you do.