Gaming Explanation

[Deleted User]

Can some one explain why copied games from somebody elses 3ds wouldn''t work i asked the person which said it and he blanked me!!!!

 

[TyBlood13]

downloaded games are tied to a single system, like the Wii

 

[Foxi4]

Can some one explain why copied games from somebody elses 3ds wouldn''t work i asked the person which said it and he blanked me!!!!

When you download a game, its binary (equivalent of an .exe file on PC's) becomes signed in a specific way. To be executed, it needs to be paired with a key, and each 3DS has its own, unique signature key. When the key doesn't match, the game isn't executed or even detected for that matter.

The original binary that is supposed to be executed is the result of a mathematical operation between the signed binary and a given very long value. With a "wrong" value, the result will not be correct.

 

[Deleted User]

then why cant people get a file from eshopon one 3ds and then one from another 3ds (make sure it is the same app) compare the binary what ever and find the area were the code is different then change it so it would work on antoher 3ds it sounds logical to me

 

[Deleted User]

downloaded games are tied to a single system, like the Wii

no they arent i have got copys of my friends vc and they worked

 

[TyBlood13]

proof please

 

[Foxi4]

then why cant people get a file from eshopon one 3ds and then one from another 3ds (make sure it is the same app) compare the binary what ever and find the area were the code is different then change it so it would work on antoher 3ds it sounds logical to me

Because the entire file is different and the equation is long and convoluted. Breaking signature codes can take years upon years, even if your script is running non-stop. That, and it's not just "a file" - the key is encrypted itself, hidden away in NAND which we cannot dump without hardware kits yet, sometimes even in a separate chip entirely (like the Private Key). It's not a "copy-paste and done" thing - the key itself is protected.

no they arent i have got copys of my friends vc and they worked

No. Unless you mean .WAD installs.

 

[Deleted User]

how????

 

[Deleted User]

Because the entire file is different and the equation is long and convoluted. Breaking signature codes can take years upon years, even if your script is running non-stop. That, and it's not just "a file" - the key is encrypted itself, hidden away in NAND which we cannot dump without hardware kits yet, sometimes even in a separate chip entirely (like the Common Key). It's not a "copy-paste and done" thing - the key itself is protected.
No. Unless you mean .WAD installs.

is this a bit like the wii with nand and keys what about the wiis key what ver signing method is the same? and it can be easily hacked using half the wii hacks?

 

[Foxi4]

is this a bit like the wii with nand and keys what about the wiis key what ver signing method is the same? and it can be easily hacked using half the wii hacks?

The physical method is relatively similar, but the software behind it is obviously different. The problem with the Wii was that the key was temporarily exposed in an unencrypted form on one of the chips which allowed Twiizers to extract it... literally with tweezers. It's unlikely that it will be "easily done" - otherwise we would've already seen homebrew signing. After all, Neimod rigged his 3DS's Main memory fully and can dump anything he wants from RAM. It's going to take a while before hackers piece things together, give them time.

In any case, look at it this way:

123 : X = 1

123 is a binary, X is our signature. The 3DS knows that the result has to be 1, and there can be only one key which gives this result (in case of signatures, it's 2 options - the Common Key or the Private Key). That's how signing works - if the result is anything other than the expected one, the binary does not boot. Of course this is incredibly simplified - a signing equation is a million times more complex than this example, but it shows the mechanism.

 

[Deleted User]

The physical method is relatively similar, but the software behind it is obviously different. The problem with the Wii was that the key was temporarily exposed in an unencrypted form on one of the chips which allowed Twiizers to extract it... literally with tweezers. It's unlikely that it will be "easily done" - otherwise we would've already seen homebrew signing. After all, Neimod rigged his 3DS's Main memory fully and can dump anything he wants from RAM. It's going to take a while before hackers piece things together, give them time.

In any case, look at it this way:

123 : X = 1

123 is a binary, X is our signature. The 3DS knows that the result has to be 1, and there can be only one key which gives this result (in case of signatures, it's 2 options - the Common Key or the Private Key). That's how signing works - if the result is anything other than the expected one, the binary does not boot. Of course this is incredibly simplified - a signing equation is a million times more complex than this example, but it shows the mechanism.

yoyou should help get 3ds hacked your really smart

 

[Deleted User]

The physical method is relatively similar, but the software behind it is obviously different. The problem with the Wii was that the key was temporarily exposed in an unencrypted form on one of the chips which allowed Twiizers to extract it... literally with tweezers. It's unlikely that it will be "easily done" - otherwise we would've already seen homebrew signing. After all, Neimod rigged his 3DS's Main memory fully and can dump anything he wants from RAM. It's going to take a while before hackers piece things together, give them time.

In any case, look at it this way:

123 : X = 1

123 is a binary, X is our signature. The 3DS knows that the result has to be 1, and there can be only one key which gives this result (in case of signatures, it's 2 options - the Common Key or the Private Key). That's how signing works - if the result is anything other than the expected one, the binary does not boot. Of course this is incredibly simplified - a signing equation is a million times more complex than this example, but it shows the mechanism.

i sthere anyway to get the private key at all?

 

[Foxi4]

i sthere anyway to get the private key at all?

Getting the private key is possible, but does not give "the edge" to the homebrew community unless it's done on the system itself and without extra hardware soldered to it, and that alone is unlikely. Signing systems are known to work outside of the Main memory setup on completely separate chips. Getting the common key would be far more beneficial, as as the name entails, it is common to all units. Also, I'm no hacker - that's just how software signing works in general.

 

[heartgold]

Getting the private key is possible, but does not give "the edge" to the homebrew community unless it's done on the system itself and without extra hardware soldered to it, and that alone is unlikely. Signing systems are known to work outside of the Main memory setup on completely separate chips. Getting the common key would be far more beneficial, as as the name entails, it is common to all units. Also, I'm no hacker - that's just how software signing works in general.

This reminds me of the time when the DSi common keys was leaked, nothing good came out of it and people were saying the private/signing key would be more useful as the common key didn't do much.

 

[Foxi4]

This reminds me of the time when the DSi common keys was leaked, nothing good came out of it and people were saying the private/signing key would be more useful as the common key didn't do much.

Even with a signed binary, you still need a way to load it up. Besides, nobody gave two flips about the DSi. Besides, everything depends on the signing algorithms, really. One key may be required to use another etc.

 

[Deleted User]

Even with a signed binary, you still need a way to load it up. Besides, nobody gave two flips about the DSi. Besides, everything depends on the signing algorithms, really. One key may be required to use another etc.

has anybody opened up a 3ds and had a look inside yet and found anything intresting

 

[Foxi4]

has anybody opened up a 3ds and had a look inside yet and found anything intresting

Neimod's Flickr
3DSBrew

Pretty much says it all. Patience is a virtue, the system will get a wide-spread hack, it just has to be developed and tested first.

 

[Deleted User]

so it is not possible to get eshop games without being an ambassador currently

 

[Deleted User]

what about this http://www.3dbrew.org/wiki/System_Transfer

 

[Deleted User]

what about this http://www.3dbrew.org/wiki/System_Transfer

read part about 3ds title list