Really? But in your first post: (N/A) R4 Origional (r4ds.com) - No update possible (N/A) DSTT (ndstt.com) - No update possible (2.0.0-2) AK2i - HW44 (acekard.com) - No update possible (this is the old Acekard HW)
Really? But in your first post: (N/A) R4 Origional (r4ds.com) - No update possible (N/A) DSTT (ndstt.com) - No update possible (2.0.0-2) AK2i - HW44 (acekard.com) - No update possible (this is the old Acekard HW)
well the first 2 are NA because they never worked on 3DS
the Acekard HW44 has been dead for ages, hence why 2.0.0-2 where the last update it could perform
if you looked on the list you would see the more recently blocked cards that have been affect by not having a IC chip
i do not know about what other cards are lacking IC chips
but it will be alot of them
Really? But in your first post: (N/A) R4 Origional (r4ds.com) - No update possible (N/A) DSTT (ndstt.com) - No update possible (2.0.0-2) AK2i - HW44 (acekard.com) - No update possible (this is the old Acekard HW)
well the first 2 are NA because they never worked on 3DS
the Acekard HW44 has been dead for ages, hence why 2.0.0-2 where the last update it could perform
if you looked on the list you would see the more recently blocked cards that have been affect by not having a IC chip
i do not know about what other cards are lacking IC chips
but it will be alot of them
I think Supercard is the oldest team still in the running and with the DStwo they will be limited only by the library of possible game header changes and the company's desire to stay at their position as premium supported flash cart. They haven't had to lower their price too much since their launch because their reputation and features make the product worth the $35-45 price tag depending on whether you have to pay shipping and stuff.
I think that the heavy blow dealt by the recent update may handle things for a while leaving only three known survivors which can circumvent the new protection. At this point it is a wait-and-see sort of thing if Nintendo is going to feel the remaining kits impact 3DS/DS enough to invest in putting out another update.
If I were to wager here, I think it's more likely that Nintendo will wait and see if any new kits pop up before doing another flashcart blocking update since it does take some resources to do this.
Probably most of cards will end up like this my friend.
It's hard to know how many cards have IC save system.
I bet that of the current market cards,
there won't be more than 10 of them compatible with this update.
Here are several post quotes of interest to answer more than you asked from the frontpage thread regarding the 3DS System Firmware update.
-> http://gbatemp.net/t...ked-permanently
I don't understand what they mean by IC. Integrated Chip? What do they mean by have Save IC and without save IC, and the burning of the FPGA board?
While I don't understand, I could understand why the SC DS2 isn't blocked. With it's own built in CPU, the moment you give it power it starts working. You don't need the DS to access the code on there manually. Turn the system on, card gets power, and starts workin on it's own. That means as soon as the 3DS powers up and starts reading the card, the DS2 is getting power and starting up on it's own. In those milliseconds, the 3DS is pinging and reading the responses from the card. All other cards can't fake the responses, and that's how they would be blocked. However, the DS2's CPU would receive those signals, and with it's own bios, it would be programmed to respond in a timely fashon and with the proper 'challenge responses' to trick the 3DS. The CPU gives the DS2 a hardware method of near 0-day bypassing.
Anyways, can I please be told what they meant by the IC and the burning of the FPGA board? Did the 3DS manage to find a way to overload the flashcarts, making them useless on every system?
IC stands for integrated circuit. Pretty much any chip you can think of is one. Think about laying out all the transistors and such needed for a chip on a bread board, those would not be integrated because they are not contained in one package. An integrated circuit in today's age has them all in silicon in one package.
It sounds like most flash cart manufacturers have not built the saver IC's into their FPGA's, and the unprotected space left is for not enough to create a saver IC there... When programing an FPGA you can chose what real estate is protected and what is not, most flash cart makers these days leave some of it unprotected so that you can flash it to combat updates from Nintendo. Thing is, most have probably only left what they felt was the minimum required unprotected. These are the carts that are blocked forever as they no longer have enough alterable real estate to build in the saver IC. Even if there is enough protected real estate, or some could be re-purposed to create the saver, only the manufacturer can alter protected space, hence the claim that the carts would need to be sent to the factory. Even if you have a JTAG you are going to need the keys to properly alter the protected space.
Apparently the SC team either has already created the saver IC on their FPGA or they left enough unprotected space to create one. My logic says the in-built CPU probably has nothing to do w/ it or the R4 that still works wouldn't. The problem is I see another way for Nintendo to block those carts that do have a saver IC on the FPGA, but I won't share... I don't want to give them ideas. I will say this, there is a finite list of exploitable games and if their next move is my idea (if they haven't already implemented it), that list just shrank a lot. Ultimately black listed headers coupled w/ the other two factors will pretty much kill DS flash carts on the 3DS if there is not enough unprotected real estate on their FPGA's.
I said it on IRC last night but 2007 vintage me that saw savelist functionality going away when the ever so slightly more simple to use R4 style save patching took off feels vindicated once more.
The technical side of things, others have taken some of it but I feel like going as well. http://hackmii.com/2...oming-in-3-2-1/ covers how DS flash carts used to work on the DSi and 3ds.
The short version is DS games have several places where code can be launched from and one of these (namely the overlays) went kind of unchecked which is how flash carts got in. There is only a limited amount of potential titles here as the overlays needed to load early on and automatically and once the DSi was released all new DS games carried additional security which could not be faked.
First Nintendo checked for a proper icon and name which is why carts stopped having their own ones and instead used the name of the game they faked.
Then Nintendo started to check the game that was faked, these initial checks were fairly simple and easy to work around which is why some of the teams made the effort to keep their original faked game working (others just rebuilt for a new ROM). This happened a few times.
Nintendo then made proper "random" checks so it turned to just finding a new game every time, some teams found an overlay that did not launch immediately but a few seconds in which is why you had a choice of updates for some if you did not need 3ds/DSi compatibility.
If what the Supercard people have said is true then this time Nintendo started to check the save is what "should be"- as mentioned in the opening sentence most flash carts once the R4 got big decided to instead just patch games rather than make a list of saves and emulate the save chip (EEPROM and Flash are brutally simple to emulate down to the timings and signals compatibility level in CPLD and FPGA type programmable devices as indeed they were for said devices with savelists). Supercard brought back the idea of the save list/save chip emulation in their DSTwo's clean mode thing to have games work until their AP could be cracked (the old EZ5 lost a the savelist way back when as it was dropped to compete with the "drag and drop but update your kernel occasionally/every few days" R4, but for years and years it could use it to run games before they were cracked/patched) hence their possibly being able to work around this update and others not being so lucky. I imagine the only reason some R4 named cards still work is because Nintendo have not got a broad fix (it is why some cards do not get kicked during updates- it is the only reason I can imagine the EZ5i stuck around through a couple of updates) but are still playing whack a mole with the cards and as there are a few dozen individual ones from a few dozen sites all doing their own thing that is a fair ask. For the record as well/to hopefully help someone the save hardware is fairly general use ( http://nocash.emubas...cartridgebackup ) as you probably saw with the issues surrounding save dumping when pokemon got the pokewalker- they sat the IR communications on the save bus (behind a selector switch) which had not been done before.
If then most cards do not have the capability to emulate a save chip of the appropriate form (and it would have been easier to just accept signals and convert them accordingly rather than emulate it) then they are indeed blocked unless a custom firmware for the 3ds comes down, to answer the question of could it happen to the DSi I see no reason why it could not happen.
It will not happen and I see anyone even slightly worried about it I will have to laugh (not to mention they not have had the option for years and have not done it) but theoretically it could even happen to the original DS (DSlite had a bit more protected firmware so I am not sure how that works unless the game told you to short SL1 yourself) as it had a firmware chip that was updated to add wifi (at which point you would just get a copy of ppflash from http://www.darkfader.net/ds/ and use it to reset it if you did not have flashme).
I'm a little confused as to what makes the DSTwo and R4i Gold capable of circumventing this block that other flashcarts apparently cannot, like the Acekard 2i.
The DSTwo and R4i Gold are not read unless they have a MicroSD in them.
Even after putting a MicroSD in the DSTwo, however, it has to be one that has the correct software on it, or you get the DSi/3DS error.
(The R4i Gold can try to boot without the correct MicroSD.)
The AK2i, however, can show an icon and try to boot without a MicroSD. The AK2i is using an older design where the boot data is all stored on the AK2i itself.
Normally this just means that the AK2i has a harder time updating since it's not as flexible in the updates it can take (which users have seen, since it can take a month for an update now), while other carts like the R4i Gold and DSTwo can update quicker and easier.
However if the quote is specifically talking about data on the flash cart that in some cases (like the Ak2i) is not rewriteable, then the Ak2i is likely to be permanently stuck at an older firmware.
Now, here's where things get interesting!
The below is info given to me by a different flash cart team (not supercard, I've had no contact with them), back when I was mag staff.
Flashcards can be divided to several classes according to their structure. Class1: AK2i,Iedge, R4ids Gold(Non-3DS), R4iDSN(Non-3DS), R4I-SDHC, R4I-SDHC(3DS version), DSONEi and etc Class2: DSTOW, ismmart, iplayer, EZVi, iPlayer, R4ids 3DS , R4iDSN 3DS and etc Class3: iCyclo
[...]
We can say Class1 may be blocked some day in the future.
Flash carts use FPGAs. http://en.wikipedia....able_gate_array
They're like programmable processors, and they have parts that are locked (to writing) and parts that can be unlocked. Flash carts re-write the unlocked parts when they update in order to write new DS cart header/ROM data on them to give the carts a new "identity" so they get around DSi/3DS updates.
It seems that how complex and re-writable carts are varies highly. For example the original R4 model cannot be rewritten at all (and has very little storage space), which is why it was never able to be updated for the DSi and 3DS. On the other hand the HWID44 Acekard 2i, while having rewritable portions, doesn't include as much space for updates as the HWID88 model, which is most likely why the HWID44 model stopped updating a while back (it just could no longer fit all the data needed). Newer flash carts are even more complex and have larger amounts of rewriteable space/data.
If this news is true (the inability to update has not been confirmed by the actual "class1" model teams), then Nintendo targeted the AK2i and others in it's class based on certain static (unable to be modified) parts of the FPGA, while more complex carts like the DSTwo retain the ability to modify the targeted data to match what Nintendo's looking for.
tl;dr So it seems the 3DS checks for more than just valid headers now, and unfortunately "class1" carts can only have their header data modified, they were never built to reconfigure themselves to a bigger extent (while other carts can be).
Because they they'd have to go around and modify the data on all the DS carts that were sold between the first game and the creation of the DSi, or they wouldn't be able to run on the DSi/3DS.
I guess many flashcard teams will create new flashcards now compatible with this firmware
and with the necessities that are needed with this update.
I hope Acekard Team do it, I'm tired of waiting for updates
for a flashcard that look half-dead
Well, everyday I see a new R4 clone.
Flashcards are compatible in DSi and 3DS,
and I see thoushand of people who buy flashcards every single day.
For me, it looks far from dead
Well, everyday I see a new R4 clone.
Flashcards are compatible in DSi and 3DS,
and I see thoushand of people who buy flashcards every single day.
For me, it looks far from dead
There's now a download available for the R4iDSN.com Gold cartridge. I will test it immediately.
[link removed at Pong's request]
edit: So far I haven't been able to get it to pass the card check though I've updated this cartridge properly from previous r4idsn.com updates. Tried both updaters on DS Lite, and tried the DSi updater on my DSi XL. I use the eShop and my 3DS XL is updated so I cannot try to run the bootloader update using that one. I'm going to try using a different Micro SD also.
edit2: My cart matches with "Card Type" in both updaters but still trying to figure out why the actual upgrade process won't run ( R4iDSN 3DS )
edit3: Tried using a freshly formatted 512MB SanDisk MicroSD with the Wood downloaded directly from the official site & it still failed to upgrade.
When you first load the updater, the readme file says, if you are using the NDSL version on DS Lite you should re-insert the card (not the exact words but they gave the unbricking instructions). It detects as the correct card type and shows System Version 3DS 2.0 / NDSi 1.41 (my cartridge has the Rafa Nadal Tennis header but I think it had Spongebob when I first got it). The "DSi" updater also still failed to work on my DSi XL. I have only US consoles, and I don't really understand --if this update is official, why it's not working-- possibly it's a premature release.
I can't remove the original link because it's not my post.
R4ids.cn havn't released a update! I think that they will do that soon but maybe they won't release it yet. We think that it's the same team but it's not proved.
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