Hacking Vita has been hacked, developers needed

[Foxi4]

Y'know, at least you can access stuff from other regions *at all*. Judging from the last few years of handheld development, it's not a given. Heck, if I got a dollar for every single time I read "PAL", "NTSC" and "*insert handheld*" in one sentece, I'd be rich by now... instead I have to explain how region locking on handhelds is artificial, mainly because... y'know... it is.

All the fuss over the memory cards being locked is because it was a feature that was previously allowed and then taken out thus destroying the save files of a number of people in the process.

The way I remember it, it was an announced feature that was later pulled off the specs and put back on in the form of multiple accounts via multiple memory cards due to fan requests. Can you link me to your source, if possible?

 

[Deleted_171835]

Y'know, at least you can access stuff from other regions *at all*. Judging from the last few years of handheld development, it's not a given. Heck, if I got a dollar for every single time I read "PAL", "NTSC" and "*insert handheld*" in one sentece, I'd be rich by now... instead I have to explain how region locking on handhelds is artificial, mainly because... y'know... it is.

All the fuss over the memory cards being locked is because it was a feature that was previously allowed and then taken out thus destroying the save files of a number of people in the process.

The way I remember it, it was an announced feature that was later pulled off the specs and put back on in the form of multiple accounts via multiple memory cards due to fan requests. Can you link me to your source, if possible?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=488830

There were no "fan requests" or anything. It was allowed until Vita firmware 1.80 when Sony all of a sudden decided to lock the cards.

 

[Foxi4]

There were no "fan requests" or anything. It was allowed until Vita firmware 1.80 when Sony all of a sudden decided to lock the cards.

I stand corrected then. Regardless, you can still back up your content on the PC, plus it's a handheld, so why would one share it, and finally, at least all you have to do to have cross-region content is formatting the card when changing profiles rather than getting one handheld from each region. I'd say it's cheaper in the end.

 

[Deleted_171835]

There were no "fan requests" or anything. It was allowed until Vita firmware 1.80 when Sony all of a sudden decided to lock the cards.

I stand corrected then. Regardless, you can still back up your content on the PC, plus it's a handheld, so why would one share it, and finally, at least all you have to do to have cross-region content is formatting the card when changing profiles rather than getting one handheld from each region. I'd say it's cheaper in the end.

Well you couldn't back up your save files if you were using multiple accounts on a memory card before. You just lost all your save data which is a dick move.

If you want multiple regions now, you gotta buy more memory cards unless you want to constantly format your card and lose your save data (Vita game saves are stored on the memory card, not the cartridge).

 

[Devin]

I share my Vita with my brother who also has a PSN account with some stuff bought on it. It's really a pain, even though he bought his own memory card to use for all his stuff he has to reformat it every time to use it. My sisters use my 3DS all the time. I understand where you're coming from but just because it's a handheld doesn't mean that people don't share it. Sure lock the cards, but at least make it so that people that bought another one of your expensive memory cards can use it for another account.

PSVita w/ my 8GB card ->I want to use my other account->Have to reformat and then redownload other account's content.
PSVita w/ my 8GB card ->Brother wants to use Vita with his card->He has to format his card, and redownload his content.
PSVita w/ brother's card ->I want to use my Vita with my card->Have to format and redownload content.

Yeah sure, I can go ahead and let him play stuff on my account. So it's limited to one account, but come on. Me sharing my games, when he has his own? Him accidentally overwriting my saves? Couldn't Sony limit PSN accounts to a single Vita? Such as my PSN account is linked to my Vita, and my brother's is linked to my Vita. You can link as many accounts as you want to a single Vita. (Within reason.) Then in order to use one of the PSN profiles on another Vita you have to deregister the PSVita from the account, and register it with the new one online.

 

[Rasas]

There were no "fan requests" or anything. It was allowed until Vita firmware 1.80 when Sony all of a sudden decided to lock the cards.

I stand corrected then. Regardless, you can still back up your content on the PC, plus it's a handheld, so why would one share it, and finally, at least all you have to do to have cross-region content is formatting the card when changing profiles rather than getting one handheld from each region. I'd say it's cheaper in the end.

Some people share handhelds. I know I use to back during the gameboy days to GBA. I honestly find this to be a poor move that might cause some users to be angry or avoid the system for a while when they really need sales. They masked it as extra security but I think it is a cash grab causing people to buy more memory sticks

 

[Foxi4]

Some people share handhelds. I know I use to back during the gameboy days to GBA. I honestly find this to be a poor move that might cause some users to be angry or avoid the system for a while when they really need sales. They masked it as extra security but I think it is a cash grab causing people to buy more memory sticks.

I was refering to the cross-region content. You only require one Vita to access any content (depending on the PSN account in use at a given time), wheras a certain other handheld is artificially region-locked with no good reason for it, and essentially to access content from all regions, you need several handhelds.

Do you get my point now?

 

[Rasas]

I get that it is cheaper then buying multiple systems. It is just that they really added this feature for like no reason but with region locking it helps to track sales from regions, decrease importers who want the game cheaper from other regions or want the game early, avoid people being angry about their MP not working with their friends since of the region differences(happens with some if not most DS games) and quite possibly security. I agree it is better then region locking but why change something that isn't broken.

 

[Foxi4]

I get that it is cheaper then buying multiple systems. It is just that they really added this feature for like no reason but with region locking it helps to track sales from regions, decrease importers who want the game cheaper from other regions or want the game early, avoid people being angry about their MP not working with their friends since of the region differences(happens with some if not most DS games) and quite possibly security. I agree it is better then region locking but why change something that isn't broken.

Rasas, region locking is what causes the multiplayer not to work with friends. It has nothing to do with security. It does nothing to track sales - factories know how much merchandise they ship, warehouses know how much merchandise they store. It causes confusion and a huge mess - nothing more.

Now, don't get me wrong - I'm all for giving the users features they want. If users want to have multiple accounts on one card, they're entitled to and Sony should probably work towards that. I see it as a useless function, I think there are better things to focus on, but I also realize that's my personal opinion. I see most of you guys agree on this, so let's call it a day.

 

[Deleted_171835]

Now, don't get me wrong - I'm all for giving the users features they want. If users want to have multiple accounts on one card, they're entitled to and Sony should probably work towards that. I see it as a useless function, I think there are better things to focus on, but I also realize that's my personal opinion. I see most of you guys agree on this, so let's call it a day.

People aren't bitching because of they want that feature. They're complaining because Sony removed a feature and destroyed save files.

 

[Rasas]

I'm not trying to say I like region locking. All I'm saying is companies may do so to prevent importers(which happens to help track sales as a side effect on how many copies a region sells or decrease said number since people will still import) compatibility issues (I know making sure a PAL copy can play a NTSC in multiplayer shouldn't be to hard but plenty of DS titles have that problem plus not to mention the DLC crap with Sony) and possibly security(some MMORPGS do this to prevent some guy in Asia from stealing your items).
http://kotaku.com/59...against-the-yen
http://www.vg247.com...ds-region-lock/

 

[Foxi4]

I'm not trying to say I like region locking. All I'm saying is companies may do so to prevent importers(which happens to help track sales as a side effect on how many copies a region sells) compatibility issues (I know making sure a PAL copy can play a NTSC in multiplayer shouldn't be to hard but plenty of DS titles have that problem) and possibly security.
http://kotaku.com/59...against-the-yen
http://www.vg247.com...ds-region-lock/

Oh for god's sake...

Okay, look. No such thing as a PAL copy or an NTSC copy of a DS game - a DS is not a television set and those terms simply don't apply to it. The only thing that makes them "regional" are their localizations (languages in the package) - the binary itself is the same. Really. They're the exact same games. Fair play, some errors may pop up here and there if the localization team screws up something and the debug team has to get their dirty paws on the code itself, but that's extremely rare - most problems are caused by bad dumps or post-dump patches from hell. The DS is not region locked, it never was. The first Nintendo handheld to use Region Locking was the DSi, and we're talking only about DSiMode applications.

I can see how companies are worried about people importing games from other countries, but they need to understand that they're entitled to do so. Either way, they're still profiting. I would rather *not* region lock my game for good press than region lock it in vain hopes of getting an extra buck.

Also, as I said earlier in this thread, somebody owes me a buck now. I want it.

 

[Rasas]

I know the DS isn't region locked I never said it was it is just that some problems occur during multiplayer between copies from two regions sometimes probably a easy fix. Is it a big deal to most people no but region locking occurs for some reason else wise why the hell would you add something that takes time and money to implement.

I'm not trying to say I like region locking I like having options but clearly it happens for some reason. I'm just pointing out possible reasons these things happen since I clearly can't think of many besides those four.

 

[Foxi4]

I know the DS isn't region locked I never said it was it is just that some problems occur during multiplayer between copies from two regions probably a easy fix. Is it a big deal to most people no but region locking occurs for some reason else wise why the hell would you add something that takes time and money to implement.

http://en.wikipedia....egional_lockout

Except none of those three ideas really work. All it amounts to is not getting games other regions get and not being able to play them. The price around the world doesn't have to be maintained at the same level and region locking doesn't help in differentiating prices - even if the price is different, the shipping costs still usually cover the difference, or even make it non-profitable. Staggered launches aren't a good excuse either, due to the forementioned reason. As for censorship, there's this thing called parental control, ESRB ratings and all that jazz - give the people some credit and let them decide what they want to buy. Besides, even if censored versions are required, they don't have to be region locked either - this has nothing to do with the issue at all. All in all, it's a game rigged so that the customer loses.

 

[Rasas]

I usually edit my posts several times. I'm not for region locking but it is there and I was giving a couple reasons why it might happen.
The imports isn't a big deal because the number probably isn't to great I get that but companies just do it anyway. With shipping the companies don't see a dime of that but they get money from the game so it is just getting the maximum amount of cash(greed).
Tracking sales isn't that important since the number won't be off much because of imports.
Compatibility isn't a big problem since it doesn't happen much unless you travel a lot and can be easily fixed but Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony aren't.
I think security for some MMORPGS is valid but unless you travel a lot being unable to access your account from another region isn't a big deal.
With censorship something I didn't really think about it but people will always find a way to get it so it seems like a waste

Ya, I agree the reasons for region locking are fairly insignificant unless importing from North America(since they have low prices compared to the rest of the world) really happens in great numbers.

 

[chavosaur]

Also, as I said earlier in this thread, somebody owes me a buck now. I want it.

Spoiler

I really don't care about the sharing of multiple accounts much, region lock, or memory card ties or whatever. I'm interested in what the threads really trying to push.
Homebrew Developers.
Still extremely excited to see emulators, homebrew games, apps, etc.

 

[Rydian]

HE STARTED IT! YOU ALL SAW IT!

But yeah, user mode... I see it as... kind of a hindrance, really. Remember compatibility issues caused by HBL on the original PSP and then VHBL on the Vita? User mode isn't exactly coder-friendly, you still have to "ask for access" whenever you want to use some hardware, and sometimes the answer is "lolnou". I hope it won't be a hindrence, plus, I hope they'll eventually gain kernel access.

Well to be fair, a lot of it was because homebrew on the PSP was almost always coded with full access being a given, HBL was abnormal, and few made software specifically for it. As far as emulators are involved, people actually fell back on using older versions of existing emulators because of it.

If homebrew is developed with user-mode in mind from the start on the Vita, we shouldn't see as much of that issue.

This is of course excepting system tools that literally require lower-level hardware access...

a PAL copy can play a NTSC

What's funny is PAL and NTSC have nothing to do with modern game systems, especially not handhelds. Region-locking is not because of any technical difficulties. They do it on purpose, and they just let people think it's still PAL/NTSC issues, when that stuff was bypassed years ago (and never had a place in handhelds anyways).

I mean, if I was a company like this I sure wouldn't go around correcting people "No it's not anything technical, we do it on purpose so people from the US have to pay the US prices for games instead of importing them from cheaper countries."

 

[Foxi4]

@[member='Rydian']

THANK YOU. You restored my faith in humanity.

 

[Deleted_171835]

@[member='Rydian']

THANK YOU. You restored my faith in humanity.

People seem to lose and regain their faith in humanity all the time these days.

 

[synce]

This is how quick the 3DS should've been hacked, I'm not sure what's going on with that scene. I mean the Vita doesn't even need this, it's already region free and frankly I don't think it has enough juice to emulate something like DC or PS2. But we'll see, I might soon be $250 poorer