Windows 10... now has a Ubuntu subsystem, I guess?

[FireEmblemGuy]

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsex...ncing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-14316/
https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2016/03/30/run-bash-on-ubuntu-on-windows/

This is interesting and something I haven't had a chance to try out yet. The newest Win10 Insider Preview build includes "native" support for Bash, including most general command-line tools, shell scripts, etc. The catch is that it's running under Ubuntu on Windows (or the "Windows Subsystem for Linux"), which means it's actual Linux binaries, tools and userspace with no support for invoking Windows executables, tools, or comands from within Bash, although it can still access any drive currently mounted in Windows (and the files on them). That's still certainly useful in some ways, although limited - in some instances, more so than simply using MSYS or cygwin.

However, this does seem to work as something of an inverse of Wine - Windows interpreting Linux calls into something Windows natively understands. There is apt-get support, and you can install more packages (at least according to a Ubuntu team member, although I have no idea if the current build implements this). Still, since this whole thing is (currently) aimed at developers, the scope will likely remain limited - I'm going to assume any apps that require an actual display won't work now or anytime soon - according to that Ubuntu blog post, even things like terminal multiplexers aren't even working. Still, the prospect of running native Linux binaries that otherwise would be a pain in the ass even to compile on Windows is exciting.

 

[JustAKirby]

Very innovative.

 

[Raylight]

Convergence is coming.

 

[FAST6191]

I did play on KDE for windows a couple of years back https://windows.kde.org/ and have various had cygwin, mingw and whatnot going on, similarly I have watched with some interest what MS did for servers and virtualisation (to say nothing of MS being the biggest kernel contributors at various points, though mainly for drivers) but this is something I will sit up and take note of.

Hopefully something nice leaks from this into non powershell command line.

 

[Sono]

Eh, I'll just run Linux natively, VirtualBox runs windoze (get the reference?) very well, and has shared folder support, so I still won't go back to windoze. Also, VirtualBox has graphics driver support, so it's almost 99% compatibility
Every windoze after plain 8 (so everything starting with 8.1, and afterwards) is shiet.
Okay, to be fair, I have used Linux before I perma-switched to it from Win8, so all Linux-y stuff was familiar to me
Anyways, this is just a bad trick to make us Linux users switch back to windoze, so they could steal our privacy Me (and other non-windoze users) ain't havin' that shiet! *waves fingers like Sonic*

 

[FireEmblemGuy]

Well obviously there's the advantage of lesser resource usage with a compatibility layer versus a whole virtualized OS; as for the privacy issues, it's understandable that some people don't feel comfortable sharing some of that info but it's not much of a concern to me. Still, at least they were clear in that they only added this feature because it was basically the most common response from devs when asked what they could do to convince them to make Windows their primary development OS.

Frankly I use Linux a majority of the time (to the point where I only run Windows on my notebook to ensure a program oddity is or isn't because of Wine), but Windows is still the primary OS on my gaming rig due to a lack of decent Radeon drivers and overall performance decreases when running demanding games in Wine. If the new compatibility layer system becomes more robust it'd certainly go a ways towards making me more comfortable in Windows, although as it is now I feel like Cygwin is still a better choice for certain everyday tasks.

 

[Joom]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish

Anyways, this is just a bad trick to make us Linux users switch back to windoze, so they could steal our privacy Me (and other non-windoze users) ain't havin' that shiet! *waves fingers like Sonic*

Also, you seem pretty new to Linux.

a lack of decent Radeon drivers and overall performance decreases when running demanding games in Wine

Catalyst has always worked well on Arch for me. I guess I'm just lucky. Though since my card is dated, I used Skyrim as my benchmark and it runs just fine. I've tried GTA V, but since it's an APU, the processor is a bottleneck and causes weird texture glitches (even on Windows). Though GTA IV runs as "good" as it does on Windows. Also, Bioshock Infinite got ported over, and it actually runs better on Linux than it does on Windows.

 

[The Catboy]

That feel when even Windows uses Linux ;O;

 

[Sono]

Also, you seem pretty new to Linux.

Well, that's just rude

Catalyst has always worked well on Arch for me. I guess I'm just lucky. Though since my card is dated, I used Skyrim as my benchmark and it runs just fine. I've tried GTA V, but since it's an APU, the processor is a bottleneck and causes weird texture glitches (even on Windows). Though GTA IV runs as "good" as it does on Windows. Also, Bioshock Infinite got ported over, and it actually runs better on Linux than it does on Windows.

I didn't say that
Anyways, guess what! For me VirtualBox'd windoze has better graphics performance than native windoze. You know why? Because AMD drivers SUCK a big load of shietballz, and crash every time on windoze, and break X on Linux! But using opensoos drivers on Linux is a million times better, and I never had problems with it And it co-operates with VirtualBox, so I can run games with the same performance as on a native windoze. fyi, 'Radeon Xpress 1150

 

[ihaveahax]

I'd probably still use the normal command line whenever I'm using Windows, because I know a fair amount of people who still don't use or choose not to use Windows 10. even my virtual machine is still hanging around on 8.1 + Start8. but nice I guess.

 

[AnukWolf]

I got the newest build installed on my laptop and the Linux integration is super awesome.
The Windows shell always has been one of the few things I just couldn't work with at all! It is so unintuitive and don't let me start talking about Batch scripts..

 

[Joom]

Well, that's just rude

Irrelevant. Bash can be learned with ease,and really isn't a testament to one's overall Linux experience. A true Linux user builds their own kernel that utilizes spare silicon that refracts light from the sun in order to handle XFS I/O operations. I bet you don't even use XFS.

I got the newest build installed on my laptop and the Linux integration is super awesome.
The Windows shell always has been one of the few things I just couldn't work with at all! It is so unintuitive and don't let me start talking about Batch scripts..

Powershell is actually pretty nice. Though CMD has always been incredibly limited.

 

[tech3475]

This is useful for me, considering I've been learning shell scripting recently and I use *nix so much I have to create links for cmd so I can use some unix commands (mainly ls).

That said.....windows 10.

 

[Sono]

Irrelevant. Bash can be learned with ease,and really isn't a testament to one's overall Linux experience. A true Linux user builds their own kernel that utilizes spare silicon that refracts light from the sun in order to handle XFS I/O operations. I bet you don't even use XFS.

I don't want to start a flame war, so I'll just say: You're winner! (get the reference? )

I never said I'm the most professional Linux geek ever existed, I'm just a plain ol' Linux user, who develops his shit FOSS under Linux, because I got mad at my work conditions in windoze (constant graphics driver crashes, random bluescreens/sad smiley screens, VS always crashing, all Java programs running out of memory (I'm not a noob, I allocated enough RAM, and I wasn't running a shitton of apps), and much more annoying windoze-only bugs that exist since WinNT4.0).

Also, I don't want to waste my time compiling a new kernel, because it took me more than a day to compile VirtualBox from source

 

[Joom]

I don't want to start a flame war, so I'll just say: You're winner! (get the reference? )

I never said I'm the most professional Linux geek ever existed, I'm just a plain ol' Linux user, who develops his shit FOSS under Linux, because I got mad at my work conditions in windoze (constant graphics driver crashes, random bluescreens/sad smiley screens, VS always crashing, all Java programs running out of memory (I'm not a noob, I allocated enough RAM, and I wasn't running a shitton of apps), and much more annoying windoze-only bugs that exist since WinNT4.0).

Also, I don't want to waste my time compiling a new kernel, because it took me more than a day to compile VirtualBox from source

I was just spitting out fallacies to be an ass. Anyway, that Wikipedia page I linked is very relevant to this. Though I doubt Microsoft will ever be able outdo the actual UNIX like systems. There are just too many flaws in Windows. The malware problem is just astounding. Even moving from BIOS to UEFI didn't help with security like they had hoped it would.

 

[barronwaffles]

constant graphics driver crashes, random bluescreens/sad smiley screens, VS always crashing, all Java programs running out of memory (I'm not a noob, I allocated enough RAM, and I wasn't running a shitton of apps), and much more annoying windoze-only bugs that exist since WinNT4.0

What the fuck were you running to even have those issues?

 

[Sono]

What the fuck were you running to even have those issues?

First WinExp Home SP3, but due to compatibility I had to update.
Vista: tbh, except the infinite disk usage, it was a pretty cool pre-w7 experience
w7 pro: always corrupted my boot sector, and died a few months later, because the /BOOT/BCD file got corrupted, and rebuilding it does nothing useful.
win8 CoreN: sometimes it's impossible to focus on windows, and the graphics driver is crashing very frequently, and sometimes a very old bug occurs, that makes the whole system freeze (not disappearing menu bug). I ragequited when skype started to crash very frequently, and it was bloated with ads.
Slackware64 13.37: I forgot to update glibc before updating everything else, so I accidently killed the poor thing
Lubi 15.10: I love LXDE But ffs, Eclipse' UI breaks because of a GTK2 bug And f*** liboverlay-scrollbar! At least the opensource drivers work perfectly

I was just spitting out fallacies to be an ass.

I see

 

[Jayro]

First WinExp Home SP3, but due to compatibility I had to update.
Vista: tbh, except the infinite disk usage, it was a pretty cool pre-w7 experience
w7 pro: always corrupted my boot sector, and died a few months later, because the /BOOT/BCD file got corrupted, and rebuilding it does nothing useful.
win8 CoreN: sometimes it's impossible to focus on windows, and the graphics driver is crashing very frequently, and sometimes a very old bug occurs, that makes the whole system freeze (not disappearing menu bug). I ragequited when skype started to crash very frequently, and it was bloated with ads.
Slackware64 13.37: I forgot to update glibc before updating everything else, so I accidently killed the poor thing
Lubi 15.10: I love LXDE But ffs, Eclipse' UI breaks because of a GTK2 bug And f*** liboverlay-scrollbar! At least the opensource drivers work perfectly



I see

Another Lubuntu lover!

I include Lubunu on my MediCat discs, so users have both a WinPE environment AND a Linux environment to boot into, as well as FreeDOS. I even cycle my MediCat releases on Lubuntu's release cycle every 6 months.

 

[Joom]

Sounds like you need new hardware if the first system you had was XP. Also, the ads in Skype can be blocked with the hosts file and editing the XML file found in your user profile folder in AppData. As far as the open source drivers being perfect, I have to disagree. Try doing any sort of high demanding 3D rendering or even watching something in 1080p at 60 FPS. It does beat the proprietary driver when it comes to 2D rendering (desktop effects, window transitions, etc.) but these are aesthetics that really don't appeal to me, especially since I typically only use a WM and third party panel.

 

[Sono]

Sounds like you need new hardware if the first system you had was XP

Well, I was barely able to buy this piece of shiet for ~45€ I upgraded the RAM cards to 2x1 + 2x2G 800MHz though.

Also, the ads in Skype can be blocked with the hosts file and editing the XML file found in your user profile folder in AppData

Tried, doesn't work I won't updat the piece of shiet skype just to have an option in the config file! Also the new version looks horrible!

As far as the open source drivers being perfect, I have to disagree. Try doing any sort of high demanding 3D rendering or even watching something in 1080p at 60 FPS. It does beat the proprietary driver when it comes to 2D rendering (desktop effects, window transitions, etc.) but these are aesthetics that really don't appeal to me, especially since I typically only use a WM and third party panel.

Well, I'll have to also disagree.

• Youtube: windoze ~24FPS @ 480p, ~8-12fps @ 720p60 for a few seconds before freeze and possible driver crash / Linux ~30fps @ 720p30, not monitored at 720p60
• Minecraft 1.7.10 barely modded: ~8-12fps / 18-42
• Minecraft with only ComputerCraft mod: instant driver crash 0xC0000005 (Access violation) / ~32fps while rendering some monitor blocks, ~48 while not
• Minecraft 1.2.5 vanilla: ~53fps stable / ~49-79fps unstable
• osu!: 109fps @ 120limit 1360x768 / ~89fps @ no limit 800x600 in VBox

Also, on my crappy laptop:
recompiled from source Minecraft 1.7.2: ~56-61fps unstable / very, VERY stable 56fps/40fps/30fps, depending on biome and rain on Lubi14.04 32bit, but turning off VSync crashes the game

Leaving the benchmarks alone, windoze drivers are crashy, slow, and unstable, fglrx kills X, the opensoos drivers work without crashing, but tend to slow down over time, and window redraw times increase a bit. This is very noticable in Eclipse