Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[osm70]

Pretty sure tueidj has said before he is fine with people trying to crack it. (By which I think he means it's unlikely to happen, he presumably reckons he's done a pretty good job protecting it and that anyone with the skill to crack it wouldn't release the cracked version).

Even if he has said that, it's an asshole thing to do.

So making exploit for any console is also asshole thing to do?

The difference is tueidj could stop distributing this any time he wants to, as he has no reason to share it. Unlike Nintendo, he isn't selling the software. Devolution isn't a warez loader, and it's understandable why he doesn't want it to be one. If someone cracks it and distributes it, that might be enough to make him stop updating it, which would be a hit to everyone.

Another thing is exploits aren't (normally) designed for piracy, which is all you care about. I get so tired of people like you who constantly complain that they have to PAY for games if they want to play them.

I am not talking about piracy.
Most people says that its his program, so he can do whatever he wants with it.
Doing something he dont want is asshole thing.
So making exploit is asshole thing, because Nintendo dont want to let us use homebrew.
Also:

Another thing is exploits aren't (normally) designed for piracy, which is all you care about. I get so tired of people like you who constantly complain that they have to PAY for games if they want to play them.

Why do you think that I am trying to pirate?
I already said that devolution rejects all my RETAIL games.

 

[JoostinOnline]

I am not talking about piracy.
Most people says that its his program, so he can do whatever he wants with it.
Doing something he dont want is asshole thing.
So making exploit is asshole thing, because Nintendo dont want to let us use homebrew.

Facepalm. I already explained the difference.

Why do you think that I am trying to pirate?
I already said that devolution rejects all my RETAIL games.

If you don't have a modchip, then let tueidj know about it. He'll help if he can.

 

[osm70]

I am not talking about piracy.
Most people says that its his program, so he can do whatever he wants with it.
Doing something he dont want is asshole thing.
So making exploit is asshole thing, because Nintendo dont want to let us use homebrew.

Facepalm. I already explained the difference.

Why do you think that I am trying to pirate?
I already said that devolution rejects all my RETAIL games.

If you don't have a modchip, then let tueidj know about it. He'll help if he can.

I already did.
He either dont believe me, or he dont care.

 

[Maxternal]

If you don't have a modchip, then let tueidj know about it. He'll help if he can.

I already did.
He either dont believe me, or he dont care.

Hmm, did you post a log along with it?

 

[osm70]

If you don't have a modchip, then let tueidj know about it. He'll help if he can.

I already did.
He either dont believe me, or he dont care.

Hmm, did you post a log along with it?

What log?
Game verification failed.
I dont have any log.

 

[Rydian]

If you don't have a modchip, then let tueidj know about it. He'll help if he can.

I already did.
He either dont believe me, or he dont care.

Hmm, did you post a log along with it?

What log?
Game verification failed.
I dont have any log.

http://gbatemp.net/topic/330554-devolution-public-release/
That hints that logs are automatic.
There's a link there on how to grab your log via USB.

 

[retKHAAAN]

If you don't have a modchip, then let tueidj know about it. He'll help if he can.

I already did.
He either dont believe me, or he dont care.

Hmm, did you post a log along with it?

What log?
Game verification failed.
I dont have any log.

the log generated via the wifi logging feature of the app. or are you not willing to bug test?

 

[Maxternal]

What log?
Game verification failed.
I dont have any log.

Devolution can send information about what it's doing and what's happening over the network to a computer. That MIGHT tell [member='tueidj'] what's wrong. (He tends to ignore complaints that don't include them.

Bugs
If you wish to report a bug make sure you have a log from a USB gecko (or a WiFi log). Saying "Game XXX doesn't work" does not help anyone. Do not include useless information like syschecks, installed cios versions, boot 2 version/system menu theme/shoe size. The only thing Devolution requires is a normal IOS58 and something to launch it with AHBPROT access.

Future purpose of this thread
- Reporting of bugs (with logs!)

Instructions for wifi logging can be found here.

 

[stomp_442]

In my opinion, devolution supports piracy just the same as any other backup loader. Just the fact that somebody needs to copy the retail disc is piracy in itself, no matters if you own the retail disc or borrowed it from somebody, or even rented it. I have a hard drive full of wii games that were all installed from retail discs, but there is no way I own all those games. The same goes for my GC games, sure I own a handful of GC games, but the rest were borrowed and rented back when they were still rented out. I'll say that I've never downoladed a game, but that don't make me innocent. All devolution does it make it so you don't play downloaded games, it does not stop piracy.

If I see devolution posted at Wiibrew, then I'll believe that it is does not promote piracy.

 

[Maxternal]

That's all stuff you could also do with DM(L). True that it doesn't completely stop piracy. It just makes it a little more difficult to use this app with piracy. He did what he could to go along with his personal morals (and probably had fun with the tricky programming required to craft it in the process.)

 

[stomp_442]

Devolution gets a A for AP efforts, there isn't much else that could be done except for constant disc checks to make sure the original disc is in the drive. I can't say that I disagree with the AP measures, but will I use it as much as other backup loaders? only time will decide that with the addition of classic controller support.

 

[tueidj]

If I see devolution posted at Wiibrew, then I'll believe that it is does not promote piracy.

I'm a wiibrew admin so I could quite easily post it there if I wanted to regardless of the rules. But the fact is "backup" loaders of any sort are not allowed, regardless of if they enable piracy or not.

 

[stomp_442]

If I see devolution posted at Wiibrew, then I'll believe that it is does not promote piracy.

I'm a wiibrew admin so I could quite easily post it there if I wanted to regardless of the rules. But the fact is "backup" loaders of any sort are not allowed, regardless of if they enable piracy or not.

oh, admin, I never knew.

But isn't a media player and also an emulator kind of like a backup loader? I see no difference between a NES backup loader and a Wii backup loader, they both load backups of copywrighted materials. Who decides where the line is drawn? The old NES stuff is sold on the eShop, so why isn't an NES emulator shamed upon?

Media players play the most common formats of downloaded movies, among other things. Shouldn't a "legal" media player only play the formats of retail discs? I guess it's fine if it don't use a cIOS to run on a Wii.

Not that I'm against such applications, I use them all the time, but who decides where the line is drawn, when it comes to piracy?
I do understand the part of Wiibrew needing to stay out of trouble with copywright holders, therefore no backup loaders for current generation consoles.

 

[GameGeek]

Pretty sure tueidj has said before he is fine with people trying to crack it. (By which I think he means it's unlikely to happen, he presumably reckons he's done a pretty good job protecting it and that anyone with the skill to crack it wouldn't release the cracked version).

I wasn't talking about tueidj, I referring to the Devolution users who disapprove of people cracking it even though they're alright running a crack of sorts in their consoles.

Pretty sure tueidj has said before he is fine with people trying to crack it. (By which I think he means it's unlikely to happen, he presumably reckons he's done a pretty good job protecting it and that anyone with the skill to crack it wouldn't release the cracked version).

Even if he has said that, it's an asshole thing to do.

So making exploit for any console is also asshole thing to do?

The difference is tueidj could stop distributing this any time he wants to, as he has no reason to share it. Unlike Nintendo, he isn't selling the software. Devolution isn't a warez loader, and it's understandable why he doesn't want it to be one. If someone cracks it and distributes it, that might be enough to make him stop updating it, which would be a hit to everyone.

You know, someone could argue that writing an exploit for a console that can lead to piracy is more of an asshole thing to do than cracking Devolution as in the former case you're hurting the makers of the console (as well as third party developers) by costing them potential software sales, whereas in the later, you aren't hurting tueidj in any way as he isn't losing any money because of it.

 

[tueidj]

oh, admin, I never knew.

But isn't a media player and also an emulator kind of like a backup loader? I see no difference between a NES backup loader and a Wii backup loader, they both load backups of copywrighted materials. Who decides where the line is drawn? The old NES stuff is sold on the eShop, so why isn't an NES emulator shamed upon?

Media players play the most common formats of downloaded movies, among other things. Shouldn't a "legal" media player only play the formats of retail discs? I guess it's fine if it don't use a cIOS to run on a Wii.

Not that I'm against such applications, I use them all the time, but who decides where the line is drawn, when it comes to piracy?
I do understand the part of Wiibrew needing to stay out of trouble with copywright holders, therefore no backup loaders for current generation consoles.

If a "backup loader" is considered to be a program which circumvents part of the wii's security (specifically the part that requires an original game disc), then those programs are not backup loaders.

 

[WiiUBricker]

Hm.. does this mean that emulators are allowed on wiibrew only because they don't circumvent anything but emulate the whole system (which would basically mean that wiibrew allows warez loaders as long as they are emulators)?

 

[Rydian]

An emulator contains a whole system (as far as the software being run sees it) AP/DRM included.

On the other hand, a backup loader works within the current system and modifies the existing AP/DRM schemes.

 

[Maxternal]

So if you ported Dolphin as Wii homebrew you could put it on WiiBrew.
(Not that it's worth the effort ... it'd be REALLY SLOW ... but it's an interesting concept.)

 

[Rydian]

So if you ported Dolphin as Wii homebrew you could put it on WiiBrew.
(Not that it's worth the effort ... it'd be REALLY SLOW ... but it's an interesting concept.)

I don't think it'd be possible. There wouldn't be enough RAM (and storage for manual management).

Remember that "turing-complete" assumes unlimited resources.

 

[Maxternal]

Remember that "turing-complete" assumes unlimited resources.

True, but an even slower page file would do the trick. I think the PowerPC can do that.