WBFS conversion is destructive?

Discussion in 'Wii - Hacking' started by Dogway, May 27, 2014.

  1. Dogway
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    Dogway GBAtemp Regular

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    Hello, I have a problem where I'm downloading some verified Wii dumps. The Wii uses WBFS format and I also like how it compresses the ISOs to the max where rar or 7z can't, the problem is that converting back to ISO from WBFS isn't transparent, CRC is not kept and hence the dumps can't be verified again.

    I would like to store my dumps in WBFS but without modifying the original file, is that possible?
    I'm using WiiBackupManager if that helps.


    Also as a side question, is there any kind of downgrade on PAL games as opposed to NTSC like back in the days? For example on GC 480p weren't possible on PAL, etc.
     


  2. Dogway
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    Dogway GBAtemp Regular

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    I'm now using WiiScrubber, compressing ISO and also outputting a DIFF file... not sure this is a still valid process...
     
  3. Doux91

    Doux91 GBAtemp Regular

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    you can compress your games with wiibackup fusion, [WIA] LZMA2.9@100, wbfs is an ISO but just in the true size, Nintendo always complete the games with 1 and 0 if you dont use wiiscrubber all the games are of 4.4 or 7.5GB, not sure just estimated, but i got all my games in wbfs and all works pretty well, even i download games in .WIA and the 7zip can compress the games because WIT uses the librarys of 7zip [LZMA y LZMA2] the most great compression of a game is Kirbys epic yarn 900Mb when the wbfs is 3.6GB, Wario land shake it 1.41GB, Punch out 1.61GB, and more.
    check here
    http://www.emudesc.com/threads/tutorial-comprimir-juegos-de-wii.562797/
    and as you are spanion, spanish however
    if you use wiiscrubber you must compress the game in a rar for see the real size because even if you use wiiscrubber your ISOs always will be in 4GB, and at least the GC pal games are in spanish, i just saw prince of persia in spanish for NTSC and just saw the smash brother melee pal running at 480p but the others i tried didnt show the 480p just the 480i all the resident evil pals, fzero, most wanted just in 480i, just transfer your games in wbfs to your HDD in your PC wiibackup manager is the best choice, the last version, and i've never had problems with the wbfs backups in my computer even i download many of those i had a lot like 100 games all in wbfs, but now im converting all to .wia because i have not space in my hard disk, i'd liked to answer you in spanish but the moderator says i cant :)
     
  4. Dogway
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    Dogway GBAtemp Regular

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    Thank you! no problem, more or less I understand what you say. That method looks miles better than with WiiScrubber, I just need to make sure that converting to WIA and back to ISO is 100% identical to original ISO. I'm gonna test now and read the tuto.
     
  5. Doux91

    Doux91 GBAtemp Regular

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    Thats my tutorial and i'm sure it works because i made my own backups, and i downloaded many games in that format, you could convert back your games to ISO with wiibackup fusion, its easy, you wont need the ISOs anymore because you can play your games in the wii in .wbfs format, and in your PC with dolphin, Dolphin allows you to play wii games in wbfs then you only will need the ISO just for make hack, translations etc.
     
  6. Dogway
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    Dogway GBAtemp Regular

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    Ok, just checked, compression is great, much better than even wbfs, but file integrity is lost, something is lost on the way.
     
  7. tmv_josue

    tmv_josue GBAtemp Fan

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  8. Doux91

    Doux91 GBAtemp Regular

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    You dont lose anything or you prefer to have the ISOS of 4GB even for mario all stars [18MB], wbfs convertion is not destructive and the file integrity, and what do you need that? the thing is it doesnt matter if you lose the integrity in your games just if you dont lose the game files, even if you downloaded it or just copied it The thing is when you make a copy from your Original Disc to your HDD in your wii the game will be a .wbfs file and see what the mexican says "All methods to shrink your iso will make it lose its integrity" then i guess you make to lose the ISO integrity first when you copy to your HDD when you think you didnt lose before
     
  9. tswntk

    tswntk GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    I have yet to see any game not working due to wbfs format.
    You don't need "1:1" isos unless you want to play with mods via ppf patching or similar methods.
    WIA, 7zipped isos are not supported by USBloaders and are only good for storage.
     
  10. Dogway
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    Dogway GBAtemp Regular

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    7zip or rar barely compress the ISO, I don't mind if it's wia or a strange format as long as it compresses the ISO and keep integrity. They are verified dumps and I would prefer not to destroy their CRC signature. That's why I ask if there are non destructive compression methods.
     
  11. tswntk

    tswntk GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Wii discs are encrypted with junk data and you want integrity (together with the junk data) and compressibility? Tough...

    I would suggest you read the link by tmv_josue above in full.
     
  12. Dogway
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    Dogway GBAtemp Regular

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    sure I had it open on a tab to read later I just wanted to answer you briefly since I thought you didn't understand my question.
     
  13. W hat

    W hat Rhythm Heaven Fan

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  14. Dogway
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    Dogway GBAtemp Regular

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    I used wiiscrubber, and created both files, ISO and DIFF, the ISO was fine weighting 1.5Gb but the DIFF was 3.5Gb and not compressible any further so it's a bit of absurd... I don't know.
     
  15. W hat

    W hat Rhythm Heaven Fan

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    You say it's absurd but you're the one wanting truly lossless compression, despite it being absolutely useless. The tool I posted will have better but still not great compression results.
     
  16. smf

    smf GBAtemp Maniac

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    I can't see why it won't let you convert to WBFS and keep the original ISO, especially if you have the unmodified ISO in a zip/7zip.
     
  17. Dogway
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    Dogway GBAtemp Regular

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    What I think is absurd is the tone of your reply. Coming here knowing the title of the thread and questioning I want lossless (non-destructive) compression. I wouldn't need a thread if all I wanted was to compress Wii games, I do that since 5 years ago.

    Now tell me what is the benefit of having an ISO (1.5Gb) + DIFF (3.5Gb) over a single ISO (4.5GB). Maybe I can see your point.
     
  18. Dogway
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    Dogway GBAtemp Regular

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    I was testing the WIT tools. I managed to compress to WIA but integrity was lost when converted back to ISO. I tested with --raw which is known to keep all data but it barely compresses anything. I used L.A. Machineguns. With WIA RAW it was 3.5Gb with WIA and compressed in rar 320Mb. So it really makes a difference.

    I couldn't manage to output a diff file as explained here. But I guess it must have a similar size to the one I got using "Wii Backup Fusion" as suggested by Doux91 (using WIA too, backup fusion is a front end).

    I didn't understand how to use GPack but it uses WIT tools too, so not much difference?
    If I can't compress lossless further than 3.5Gb, then using WIA is a no-brainer, I was just expecting something had been evolved since this is the first console I know that their untouched isos are full. For example PS2 isos can range in any size and are compressible, to name one of the rest of the systems based on images.
     
  19. W hat

    W hat Rhythm Heaven Fan

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    Most newer game disc images are padded with bogus / junk / garbage / useless data. That includes Xbox, GameCube (pretty sure), Xbox 360, Wii.

    Assume that the garbage data is random. (It is.) Compression is the shrinking of data by taking advantage of its non-random elements. Random data is by definition not compressible. The best you can do is decrypt the non-garbage data and compress that, and keep the garbage data also. This is what GPack does. There might be a way to do it with WIT as well.

    I'll give a few made-up examples on the best compression you could hope for.

    Game A - 3.0 GB of data, 1.3 GB of junk: minimum size is 1.3 GB + compressed size of data
    Game B - 0.1 GB of data, 4.3 GB of junk: minimum size is 4.3 GB + compressed size of data
    Game C (dual layer disc, like Metroid Prime Trilogy or SSB Brawl) - 7.7 GB of data, .1 GB of junk: minimum size is .1 GB + compressed size of data

    You can expect the data to compress to 75% of its original size. Certain games may give you better results (50%) and a few go even smaller than that.

    A game like Game C, with hardly any junk, compresses nicely - down to 5.8 GB. A game that's mostly junk like Game B compresses terribly - maybe down to 4.35 GB. An average game like Game A will compress to 3.3 GB.
     
  20. CheatFreak47

    CheatFreak47 Complex Donut

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    Is there some reason you absolutely need perfect file integrity?

    WBFS makes ISO's smaller by cutting out all the empty space from discs. Many Wii games are far smaller than their discs and thus contain gigabytes of empty data on the disc. If you're asking for something that will inject a bunch an exact replication of the disc's junk data back in your iso's for you (creating iso's identical to the actual discs) I couldn't understand why for the life of me. Wii ISO images only have 3 practical uses. Backup, Emulation, and Running on Wii's via Softmods. All 3 of those are perfectly suitable for the WBFS format. Games aren't like pictures or music where loss ruins them.

    The only "Loss" exhibited by cutting junk data are Wii System Update Partitions, and unallocated space from the unfilled wii discs. The rest of the data, (everything on the disc's game partition) are all saved. Due to this the games play the same, they look and sound the same, even on real hardware.

    As far as I can tell, theres no reason to store wii games in any other format than WBFS outside of modding, which can usually be done anyway if you use WIT to convert the .wbfs back to a lossy ISO. (Mods only ever edit the game partition anyway) If your using a patcher that required a perfectly valid iso, (a rather archaic patch method mind you, compared to WIT extract -> replace files -> rebuild methods I've typically seen with wii iso patching) than I don't know what to tell you. lol