Hacking Underlying Wii behaviour

[xzxero]

why dont you just update your IOS58, the homebrew channel, then the emulators themselves so everything will be running off IOS58

 

[Dogway]

Yes I will have to regret, VBAGX works better with 60hz or 480i (just tested). I thought we were talking about Wii's video mode. This still doesnt tell me why my friend can play it 576i or in Auto (that was my setting), and everything goes fine. Maybe the TV?

@xzxero: Im not going to update as IOS58 still has a way to go, or better said, emulators and the scene still has. I heard CFG loader has problems with it too (I cant remember if it was the IOS or HBC). And cIOS 202 is said to go slightly faster. I mean, until I got problem, or strongly want something that requires it I dont need to install it. I normally use SD, so... But that's just me

 

[megazig]

how odd. people still say cIOS 202 runs faster than IOS58, but give great praise to the impossible speeds that IOS58 gives for CleanRip

 

[giantpune]

tantric's emulators dont use a cIOS or something. in fact, they bitch at you now if you try to use one.

 

[thesund0g]

Well, you have 2 options for a controlled experiment. Use one NAND backup on all 3 Wiis and check performance (and pray your bad block maps match), or better yet, run 1 SNEEK image on all 3 Wiis, all off the same SD/HDD (not just the same brand SD card -- rebrands are popular -- but the SAME card or disk). See if the performance differs significantly then. This ensures you are on the same IOS/SM/Patch setup without all the hassle.

In order to completely control it, you need to hook all the Wiis up to the same TV, too -- some TVs do postprocessing (deinterlacing, etc.) more aggressively than others. "Game mode" usually turns this off, but to be sure, hook them up to the same TV with the same cable type.

 

[dmonkey21]

Yes I will have to regret, VBAGX works better with 60hz or 480i (just tested). I thought we were talking about Wii's video mode. This still doesnt tell me why my friend can play it 576i or in Auto (that was my setting), and everything goes fine. Maybe the TV?

@xzxero: Im not going to update as IOS58 still has a way to go, or better said, emulators and the scene still has. I heard CFG loader has problems with it too (I cant remember if it was the IOS or HBC). And cIOS 202 is said to go slightly faster. I mean, until I got problem, or strongly want something that requires it I dont need to install it. I normally use SD, so... But that's just me

. . . . what? You realize what IOS58 is right?

It's an official IOS released by Nintendo in SM 4.3... what about it "has a way to go" lol? The whole point of using it is that you don't need to modify it to read from USB, to the best of my knowledge nobody in the scene is going to do anything extra with it...

I would just update. I don't really know where you heard that IOS202 was faster, but I have never heard that. Theres a reason the official IOS202 (not Herme's) has been retired.

Plus, Tantric constantly updates his emulators so if you are using an old version that utilizes IOS202 you may be missing out on some important performance updates.

Honestly, I don't really see the point of this thread (no offense). Underlying Wii behaviour? Every Wii since release, to the best of my knowledge, uses the same hardware, and every Wii can be updated to run the EXACT same IOS's, homebrew, SM, etc. There isn't really any other issues that could affect your system's performance other than what I just mentioned lol..

Also I don't think any USB Loaders have plans to integrate IOS58 at all, since cIOS are controllable and update-able. I know on WiiFlow's google code page there is even a rant from the developer about how ridiculous Team Twiizer's campaign to switch all cIOS users to IOS 58 is lol.

 

[snikerz]

Every Wii since release, to the best of my knowledge, uses the same hardware, and every Wii

http://hackmii.com/2009/08/timing-is-every...ftmoddable-wii/

 

[Dogway]

Well the point of the thread wasn't to argue about the "benefits" of IOS58, rather than Wii's built-in differences, and its impact to some actual emulators compatibility/performance. snikerz link illustrates my wonder.

Now that I managed to make vbagx work, as well as GC sd-boot, this issue is more for the community than for myself. The Wii scene is rather chaotic, and complicated. So it wouldnt be bad to know from other people who experienced strange behaviours (with the right settings), or like to run tests. In my case it was just to answer the issues I had with vbagx and sdl-mame that I couldnt find anywhere, but allowing the thread to grow...

 

[thesund0g]

I know on WiiFlow's google code page there is even a rant from the developer about how ridiculous Team Twiizer's campaign to switch all cIOS users to IOS 58 is lol.

Where? I can't find it.

 

[troy512]

Every Wii since release, to the best of my knowledge, uses the same hardware, and every Wii

http://hackmii.com/2009/08/timing-is-every...ftmoddable-wii/

basically its just hardware initializing, nothing related to what actually occurs during regular wii usage.

 

[dmonkey21]

Every Wii since release, to the best of my knowledge, uses the same hardware, and every Wii
http://hackmii.com/2009/08/timing-is-every...ftmoddable-wii/

basically its just hardware initializing, nothing related to what actually occurs during regular wii usage.

Ya, I know nintendo has changed things to combat piracy, but the components that would affect performance should all be the same, right?


QUOTE(Dogway @ Sep 22 2010, 12:01 AM) Well the point of the thread wasn't to argue about the "benefits" of IOS58, rather than Wii's built-in differences, and its impact to some actual emulators compatibility/performance. snikerz link illustrates my wonder.

Now that I managed to make vbagx work, as well as GC sd-boot, this issue is more for the community than for myself. The Wii scene is rather chaotic, and complicated. So it wouldnt be bad to know from other people who experienced strange behaviours (with the right settings), or like to run tests. In my case it was just to answer the issues I had with vbagx and sdl-mame that I couldnt find anywhere, but allowing the thread to grow...

Huh?? The title of your thread is 'Underlying Wii behaviour, Something nobody talks about'. What on earth does that have to do with fixing a problem with vbagx.... well whatever imo this thread is chaotic, in each post I have less of an idea of what you are looking for help with lol


QUOTE(thesund0g @ Sep 22 2010, 12:17 AM)

Where? I can't find it.

WiiFlow Google Code
ReReading it, it seems rant was a bit of an exageration lol. But he posted this in response to a user suggesting that WiiFlow switch from cIOS and only use IOS58:

"1. Ios58 was important to the homebrew channel because the HBC did not have usb2.0 support. Everything else already had usb2.0
2. Ios58 is slower than cIOS.
3. why rewrite half of wiiflow to patch things natively that cIOS does internally?
4. I dont support team twiizers in attempting to force every app to not use cIOS, they are not god. This falsely informs people like you that it is superior to use nintendo code.

ios58 just doesnt offer the same speeds, access, or flexibility as cios. And cIOS only gets better and better. My sharp words are not directed at your friend, but more at the false ideas TT is starting to impose upon people like him. TT chose to go that route of using ios58 because its harder for backup loaders to use it (among other things). It was a direct attack upon us, and another way of calling us pirates. I could very well support this, but ive just chosen not to because of the fact TT chose to dictate it upon the homebrew scene, as if they own the scene."

 

[tueidj]

I could very well support this [..]

Hardly. He could have just said he doesn't have the knowledge to do it and admit that they're dependant on whatever hermes/waninkoko give them.

 

[snikerz]

4. I dont support team twiizers in attempting to force every app to not use cIOS, they are not god. This falsely informs people like you that it is superior to use nintendo code.

ios58 just doesnt offer the same speeds, access, or flexibility as cios. And cIOS only gets better and better. My sharp words are not directed at your friend, but more at the false ideas TT is starting to impose upon people like him. TT chose to go that route of using ios58 because its harder for backup loaders to use it (among other things). It was a direct attack upon us, and another way of calling us pirates. I could very well support this, but ive just chosen not to because of the fact TT chose to dictate it upon the homebrew scene, as if they own the scene."

They just want to protect you from doing stupid patches to your IOSes. Also, it's their wiki. They can do whatever the fuck they want. Deal with it!

 

[Slimmmmmm]

This thread sounds soooooooo sinister

 

[Jacobeian]

TT chose to go that route of using ios58 because its harder for backup loaders to use it (among other things). It was a direct attack upon us, and another way of calling us pirates.

wow, this guy is stupid, is he really part of wiiflow coders ?

HBC uses ios58, backup loaders can still use cIOS, what's the big deal and where is the attack ?

 

[dmonkey21]

...not to be rude but, did u guys actually read the link? or just what i quoted -.- I think he had very reasonable points. this was in response to a person on WIIFLOW's google code site (this has nothing to do with WiiBrew or hackmii's website snikerz lol) who said he should switch to support for IOS58 to "remove the need for cIOS and a few other problems". As the developer stated, there are multiple reasons to continue support for cIOS.

In response to tueidj, on what basis do your say he couldn't support it? WiiFlow is in my opinion a comprehensive loader with decent coders behind it. It's not like TT is the only homebrew developer able to integrate IOS58, Tantric's emulators and I'm sure other apps utilize it as well.

@snikerz: That is the exact reasoning behind the comment... It's not TT's job to dictate what homebrew users should or should not install on their system, even if they deem it unsafe.

@Jacobeian: I don't know if it was an intentional attack, but (unless I'm mistaken) when HBC updated to use IOS58 it broke a number of cIOS using applications, namely USB Loaders.

I don't think this thread should be a hostile argument, and I have stated my points. I honestly don't understand why so many users seem to support TT in this issue, but I'm definitely open to reasons why you guys feel this way, just please if you respond to this just state your thoughts instead of random insults and flaming lol

 

[Jacobeian]

@snikerz: That is the exact reasoning behind the comment... It's not TT's job to dictate what homebrew users should or should not install on their system, even if they deem it unsafe.

the fact is they don't dictate you anything, they have a website (wiibrew) were they only support applications that they THINK are ok to support, it's their own website and their own right to do so, there are enough place on the internet for other ways of thinking

the problem I see is that some TT members also like to criticize piracy energetically wherever they make "public apparitions" , this usually pisses pirates off and make them feel "attacked"
but really, that's all I could see, they never forced anybody to use their Wii in particular way

@Jacobeian: I don't know if it was an intentional attack, but (unless I'm mistaken) when HBC updated to use IOS58 it broke a number of cIOS using applications, namely USB Loaders.

you are mistaken, this was unfunded rumors lead by some paranoiac people who don't understand how the Wii internally works.
in short: applications launched from their own channels cannot be affected by HBC and applications launched from HBC that reload their own IOS on startup cannot be affected by IOS58

USB Loaders have always be working fine, unless they were bugged or not used correctly

 

[tueidj]

In response to tueidj, on what basis do your say he couldn't support it? WiiFlow is in my opinion a comprehensive loader with decent coders behind it. It's not like TT is the only homebrew developer able to integrate IOS58, Tantric's emulators and I'm sure other apps utilize it as well.

Using IOS58 in a homebrew app and using it to run games from a USB HDD are very different things. It would require making a new cIOS, you can't just use the original IOS58. If the wiiflow devs know how to make their own cIOS why haven't they done so to fix some of the existing bugs? Even waninkoko didn't initially know how to do it, if you look at his twitter he mentions having to RE how async syscalls work.

 

[Dogway]

Huh?? The title of your thread is 'Underlying Wii behaviour, Something nobody talks about'. What on earth does that have to do with fixing a problem with vbagx.... well whatever imo this thread is chaotic, in each post I have less of an idea of what you are looking for help with lol

This is what I mean by chaotic, one question; different unclear answers...


post #7
vs
post#10
vs
post #24

Which one do I believe in? you know... normally Id to the one with more posts, but still... is confusing.

I even asked on how to know the base of my cIOS, but the answer was a bit confuse.

 

[raulpica]

The only solution is to look at the source code and see if it reloads into a specific IOS

If it doesn't do that, it'll use the IOS HBC is currently using, and btw, giantpune's post doesn't necessarily contrast mine, as the only thing he states is that Tantric's emus aren't using cIOSes anymore.