Homebrew TWPatcher - DS(i) mode screen filters and patches

[Plasmaster09]

No.

Long answer: the two can barely communicate thru' the clock chip, how do you expect a CPU hack the other thru' the clock chip?! Impossible and stupid...

I don't expect that. I'm just saying it's theoretically possible to change how the chips communicate on an already hacked 3ds.

 

[Sono]

I don't expect that. I'm just saying it's theoretically possible to change how the chips communicate on an already hacked 3ds.

That doesn't matter, there is no way.

The only way is writing to the NAND in DSi mode. It's not possible otherwise.

As for rtcom, it's just a communication protocoll using the clock chip. Both sides have to support it, otherwise you can't "hack" the other CPU, because it's not possible to hack each CPU using the clock chip.

 

[Plasmaster09]

That doesn't matter, there is no way.

The only way is writing to the NAND in DSi mode. It's not possible otherwise.

As for rtcom, it's just a communication protocoll using the clock chip. Both sides have to support it, otherwise you can't "hack" the other CPU, because it's not possible to hack each CPU using the clock chip.

Jeez, I get it.
No need to spam negatives when all I did was suggest a hypothetical.

 

[Sono]

Jeez, I get it.
No need to spam negatives when all I did was suggest a hypothetical.

Oof. I re-read what you asked the first time, and I completely misinterpreted what tou asked for, although I'm still right, but for different reason.

If you meant activating GBA mode from 3DS mode then it's not possible, because only the ARM9 can kickstart ARM7, and the GBA cart emulator uses main RAM (FCRAM) as cartridge ROM, and is completely removed from both the ARM11 and ARM9 so it doesn't mess with the ARM7's memory timing.

Or if you meant emulating GBA using real hardware but running the GBA ARM7 on the ARM11 (like how GBARunner2 runs the ARM7 in the ARM9) then it would be painfully slow to copy all the data in real time thru' the slow rtcom interface.

Or if I'm still misunderstanding it then please clarify yourself if you're still looking for an answer, because I have no idea how else to interpret what you asked first.

 

[Plasmaster09]

Oof. I re-read what you asked the first time, and I completely misinterpreted what tou asked for, although I'm still right, but for different reason.

If you meant activating GBA mode from 3DS mode then it's not possible, because only the ARM9 can kickstart ARM7, and the GBA cart emulator uses main RAM (FCRAM) as cartridge ROM, and is completely removed from both the ARM11 and ARM9 so it doesn't mess with the ARM7's memory timing.

Or if you meant emulating GBA using real hardware but running the GBA ARM7 on the ARM11 (like how GBARunner2 runs the ARM7 in the ARM9) then it would be painfully slow to copy all the data in real time thru' the slow rtcom interface.

Or if I'm still misunderstanding it then please clarify yourself if you're still looking for an answer, because I have no idea how else to interpret what you asked first.

Moreso the second one. I see what you mean, but now I'm wondering if with the power of h a x there would be a way to trick the ARM7 into feeding way more data to the ARM11 or otherwise using something to take data from it to the ARM11 a lot faster. Sort of vaguely like how back in the days of old home computers, the first-party loading algorithms to load things from tape were crappy but a third party cartridge could overwrite that and load a lot faster.
Probably not possible, but a neat thing to imagine.

 

[Sono]

Moreso the second one. I see what you mean, but now I'm wondering if with the power of h a x there would be a way to trick the ARM7 into feeding way more data to the ARM11 or otherwise using something to take data from it to the ARM11 a lot faster. Sort of vaguely like how back in the days of old home computers, the first-party loading algorithms to load things from tape were crappy but a third party cartridge could overwrite that and load a lot faster.
Probably not possible, but a neat thing to imagine.

Yeah, it's not possible. I have heard of using the key interrupt register, but I don't think it's bidirectional, so that's not really useful for this case, and even then you'd need to hack both sides to be able to do that.

I didn't meant to sound like an ass btw, I was just re-confirming what I said too much.

 

[Plasmaster09]

Yeah, it's not possible. I have heard of using the key interrupt register, but I don't think it's bidirectional, so that's not really useful for this case, and even then you'd need to hack both sides to be able to do that.

I didn't meant to sound like an ass btw, I was just re-confirming what I said too much.

It's ok
Makes me wonder: if ARM11 could at least send a decent rate of data to ARM7, could it be used to boost the performance of AGB_FIRM by having some of the load go to ARM11?

 

[Sono]

It's ok
Makes me wonder: if ARM11 could at least send a decent rate of data to ARM7, could it be used to boost the performance of AGB_FIRM by having some of the load go to ARM11?

Not really, since the ARM11 doesn't do anything, it just manages how the GBA display is copied to the 3DS LCD, and manages rebooting. That's really it.

Before starting ARM7, ARM11 verifies things and enables the GBA cart emulator, and tells ARM9 to start up the ARM7.
After starting ARM7, ARM9 is pretty much unused, and ARM11 only copies the GBA display to 3DS display and handles CPad to DPad emulation.

Or perhaps I may be misunderstanding your intention yet again. Perhaps did you mean extending GBA functionality with ARM11 hardware?
If you meant that then it would be yes, only if we found a way to communicate with the GBA ARM7. So far there only seems to be a way to do ARM7 <--> ARM9, which is a major PITA. And even then it would be most likely brutally slow with no CPU time left to the game.

 

[Plasmaster09]

Not really, since the ARM11 doesn't do anything, it just manages how the GBA display is copied to the 3DS LCD, and manages rebooting. That's really it.

Before starting ARM7, ARM11 verifies things and enables the GBA cart emulator, and tells ARM9 to start up the ARM7.
After starting ARM7, ARM9 is pretty much unused, and ARM11 only copies the GBA display to 3DS display and handles CPad to DPad emulation.

Or perhaps I may be misunderstanding your intention yet again. Perhaps did you mean extending GBA functionality with ARM11 hardware?
If you meant that then it would be yes, only if we found a way to communicate with the GBA ARM7. So far there only seems to be a way to do ARM7 <--> ARM9, which is a major PITA. And even then it would be most likely brutally slow with no CPU time left to the game.

Kinda both.
Perhaps if there's a way to do ARM9 <--> ARM11, we could feed ARM7 data through to ARM11 and/or back to be able to play GBA games with features that would lag like hell on original hardware.

 

[thisbirch223]

Hey i have a few questions and i am wondering if i could get some help with them. I have an Original DSI and a 2DSXL that was given to me by a friend. I haven't used a 3ds since 2015 so when i use it now it hurts my eyes a fair bit. Would playing games look better on the DSI or on the 2ds using the deblur patch? Playing some 3ds games on it looks fine but playing original ds games stretched does not look that well at all. And is it me or does the top screen have very visible scanlines? I know the screen is only 240p but i do not remember seeing those at all. Maybe i am just too used to a Pc screen but with how bad i have been straining my eyes it makes me not want to use the 2DS XL. Does the smaller models have better looking screens?

I do not have the same issue with an original DSI but i think that may be due to how much smaller the screen is. When running the DS games in their original resolution on a 3ds it does look much better aswell so maybe what i am having issues with is the low pixel density on the xl models

 

[Sono]

Kinda both.
Perhaps if there's a way to do ARM9 <--> ARM11, we could feed ARM7 data through to ARM11 and/or back to be able to play GBA games with features that would lag like hell on original hardware.

Nope, I won't do ARM11 <--> ARM9 on Nintendo TWL_FIRM / AGB_FIRM, it's an absolute hell

Perhaps possible to experiment on the upcoming homebrew replacement AGB_FIRM, but no promises it's actually possible.

Hey i have a few questions and i am wondering if i could get some help with them. I have an Original DSI and a 2DSXL that was given to me by a friend. I haven't used a 3ds since 2015 so when i use it now it hurts my eyes a fair bit. Would playing games look better on the DSI or on the 2ds using the deblur patch? Playing some 3ds games on it looks fine but playing original ds games stretched does not look that well at all. And is it me or does the top screen have very visible scanlines? I know the screen is only 240p but i do not remember seeing those at all. Maybe i am just too used to a Pc screen but with how bad i have been straining my eyes it makes me not want to use the 2DS XL. Does the smaller models have better looking screens?

If you want the best image quality then definitely the DSi, because there is no scaling. Although I never had a DSi (only a DSLite), so I don't know what the image quality is on the DSi LCD.

Also yes, smaller 3DS screens have better image quality. Original 2DS has a really good LCD, although a bit washed out compared to a new3DSXL or an original old3DS.

The "scanlines" are just artifact of how 3D is achieved on the screen, and how far apart each pixel is. They somehow had to cram in 2 pixels next to eachother in place of 1 real pixel for the 3D to work. But because of this pixel cramming is not done on the other axis, it looks like CRT scanlines, where the line blends together, but there are nasty empty spaces between the scanlines.

You can still see the edges of the pixels on a 2DS, but there are no scanline artifacts, it's just that you can see each pixel because of how low-resolution the screens actually are

In conclusion.
- if you want the pixel sharpness to "cut your eye" then get a DSi, but I'm not sure what the display quality is because I never had one
- if you're okay with scaling artifacts then get a 2DS or a new2DSXL (although watch out with the new2DSXL, the top screen really flimsy and breaks just by looking at it wrong)
- or if you have a good eyesight and don't mind playing on a really small screen then definitely 2DS

 

[Plasmaster09]

Nope, I won't do ARM11 <--> ARM9 on Nintendo TWL_FIRM / AGB_FIRM, it's an absolute hell

Perhaps possible to experiment on the upcoming homebrew replacement AGB_FIRM, but no promises it's actually possible.



If you want the best image quality then definitely the DSi, because there is no scaling. Although I never had a DSi (only a DSLite), so I don't know what the image quality is on the DSi LCD.

Also yes, smaller 3DS screens have better image quality. Original 2DS has a really good LCD, although a bit washed out compared to a new3DSXL or an original old3DS.

The "scanlines" are just artifact of how 3D is achieved on the screen, and how far apart each pixel is. They somehow had to cram in 2 pixels next to eachother in place of 1 real pixel for the 3D to work. But because of this pixel cramming is not done on the other axis, it looks like CRT scanlines, where the line blends together, but there are nasty empty spaces between the scanlines.

You can still see the edges of the pixels on a 2DS, but there are no scanline artifacts, it's just that you can see each pixel because of how low-resolution the screens actually are

In conclusion.
- if you want the pixel sharpness to "cut your eye" then get a DSi, but I'm not sure what the display quality is because I never had one
- if you're okay with scaling artifacts then get a 2DS or a new2DSXL (although watch out with the new2DSXL, the top screen really flimsy and breaks just by looking at it wrong)
- or if you have a good eyesight and don't mind playing on a really small screen then definitely 2DS

Get a 3ds of some sort. There's a (surprisingly little-known) feature where while booting a DS or DSiWare game, you can hold Start and Select to boot in the original resolution. It's crisper at the expense of being smaller.
Edit: Funny that @Robz8 noticed and liked this so quickly- he told me about it! I legitimately did not know that DS games could boot in le smol resolucion.

 

[Sono]

Get a 3ds of some sort. There's a (surprisingly little-known) feature where while booting a DS or DSiWare game, you can hold Start and Select to boot in the original resolution. It's crisper at the expense of being smaller.
Edit: Funny that @Robz8 noticed and liked this so quickly- he told me about it! I legitimately did not know that DS games could boot in le smol resolucion.

You accidentally quoted me instead of @thisbirch223

Also, I reverse engineered that part of TwlBg/AgbBg, and I can confirm that you only need to press START, OR SELECT, you don't need to hold both

 

[Plasmaster09]

You accidentally quoted me instead of @thisbirch223

Also, I reverse engineered that part of TwlBg/AgbBg, and I can confirm that you only need to press START, OR SELECT, you don't need to hold both

ah yes
I am le quote derp
I am also mildly le gaming derp
what can I say? I only ever used the feature once, which was checking to see what it looked like.

 

[Sono]

ah yes
I am le quote derp
I am also mildly le gaming derp
what can I say? I only ever used the feature once, which was checking to see what it looked like.

I don't blame you, almost nobody knows that you only need to press either START or SELECT.

 

[Plasmaster09]

I don't blame you, almost nobody knows that you only need to press either START or SELECT.

You know what'd be cool? If games could abuse overscan in such a way that a hacked 3ds could run them in pseudo-widescreen just by using that trick and some hax. I know widescreen patches exist for some games already, but that's a different thing entirely.

 

[DSoryu]

I don't blame you, almost nobody knows that you only need to press either START or SELECT.

That is actually on the 3DS user manual, but who reads that anyway haha. Also, you can disable wireless communication in DS mode by pressing Home, then START+X. You can't enable it again though, but I find it useful when you are trying to save battery and forgot to disable it before entering DS mode.

 

[Sono]

You know what'd be cool? If games could abuse overscan in such a way that a hacked 3ds could run them in pseudo-widescreen just by using that trick and some hax. I know widescreen patches exist for some games already, but that's a different thing entirely.

It's not possible to do anything with the DS GPU. The resolution is baked into the hardware, and there is no overscan either.

 

[Plasmaster09]

It's not possible to do anything with the DS GPU. The resolution is baked into the hardware, and there is no overscan either.

yeah I figured it wouldn't work
I just thought it would be neat if it did

 

[thisbirch223]

Thanks for all the replies! So what i realized is i like the DSi screen more than the 2dsxl screen but when using the 2ds xl in pixel perfect mode it does look really good! If anything i will probably buy a 2ds as i hear they're pretty comfortable and cost about $40 used!. Also i lowered my brightness to 1 and all the eye strain i was getting went away. The last 3ds i used heavily was the 3ds xl so it has been a long while since i have used one. Personally i feel that any ds or 3ds line of systems is a bit uncomfortable but that may be due to the size of my hands and how i hold the system but i hear that you an buy grips which really help. I do not know how to tag people as of yet but in response to Sono, I have always preferred the smallest screen possible when it came to my handhelds. I never really liked the XL versions all that much. I'll see if i can find some deals for a used N3DS but they are a bit hard to find. Is the 2ds screen the same size as the N3DS screen or the same size as the original 3ds screen? And how many games actually take advantage of the new 3ds hardware? I mostly use my ds and 3ds for rpgs so i was wondering if some games lag on a 2ds but not on a new3ds or new 2dsxl