Homebrew Question Tinfoil on atmosphere file overwrite

C Dale

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I had a quick question about installing Tinfoil. I'm already running the latest version of atmosphere (the one released this month), and from my understanding all you do to install Tinfoil is merge the tinfoil.latest.zip files with the content on your SD card (same thing with hbgshop). What I'm weary about is that a lot of the same files already exist in atmosphere folder on your SD card. If you move the files then Windows will ask if you want to overwrite those files during the copy.

Couldn't this cause problems with atmosphere? I understand they should be the same files, but isn't there the possibility of overwriting newer files with older ones? Should I just skip over the files if they already exist?
 

Sno0t

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Don't copy the atmosphere folder.
Download tinfoilmod (it's just the nro) and replace the one from the latest tinfoil zip.
Create a mod_config.ini according to tinfoilmod readme and you're good to go :)
 
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blawar

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Recommending the mod to him will cause him headaches, it is not meant for newbs.

To answer ops question, there is no possibility of overwriting newer files with older ones, because the files are updated with atmosphere releases. Even if they did, you would just isntall a slightly older version of atmosphere, no harm done.
 

C Dale

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Tinfoil includes invasive malware for Atmosphere users. As said above, use the Tinfoil mod that removes the malware.

Can you expand on this? What exactly does Tinfoil contain that could be classified as "malware?"
 

Lacius

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Can you expand on this? What exactly does Tinfoil contain that could be classified as "malware?"
For Atmosphere users, it forcibly modifies Atmosphere's button combinations, removes features, removes security, and forces the use of a different homebrew launcher, all without the user's consent and without informing the user.
 

blawar

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For Atmosphere users, it forcibly modifies Atmosphere's button combinations, removes features, removes security, and forces the use of a different homebrew launcher, all without the user's consent and without informing the user.

Without the user's consent? It is a fork, and it clearly states it is a fork. One that you have not even used apparently, it does not force a different homebrew launcher. The key changes you are complaining about, were the original atmosphere key bindings, and removing security is laughable.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Can you expand on this? What exactly does Tinfoil contain that could be classified as "malware?"

They call it malware because they do not like that unmodified Tinfoil forces you to use that atmosphere fork if you want to use tinfoil. This was done for stability and to retain features. For instance atmospehre made a change that reduced applet memory by 33%, the fork reverts that change so tinfoil wont crash due to out of memory. It also forces cheats to be enabled by default (as atmosphere does by default) to ensure the cheats in tinfoil work.
 

Hayato213

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Just use the tinfoil mod, Blawar makes you jump through hoops just to get things to work, really big headache, Blawar refuses to accept that the fact his program is broken and blame it on other developers, and block regular users from using Tinfoil if they use Kosmos/Atmosphere.
 

blawar

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Just use the tinfoil mod, Blawar makes you jump through hoops just to get things to work, really big headache, Blawar refuses to accept that the fact his program is broken and blame it on other developers, and block them from using Tinfoil if they use Kosmos/Atmosphere.

Tinfoil Mod is great, but keeping up with updates, in the most frequently updated app in the scene is troublesome. Newbs aren't going to understand that they need to switch back to normal tinfoil until tinfoil mod updates. Thats why you should not recommend it to newbs.

Edit: there are also no hoops to jump through, just extract the entire zip and it works. You only have to jump through hoops if you try to circumvent it to make it do something it was not designed to do.
 
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Hayato213

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Tinfoil Mod is great, but keeping up with updates, in the most frequently updated app in the scene is troublesome. Newbs aren't going to understand that they need to switch back to normal tinfoil until tinfoil mod updates. Thats why you should not recommend it to newbs.

Edit: there are also no hoops to jump through, just extract the entire zip and it works. You only have to jump through hoops if you try to circumvent it to make it do something it was not designed to do.

Point is you refuse to accept the fact that your tinfoil build is broken, a few months ago you didn't get along with Kosmos developer so you decide to block access for Kosmos/Atmosphere users, where you blame Hekate does not provide proper signature patches(ACID) for users using Tinfoil 1.56 and above. Now you are forcing people to use your bullshit malware mercury and a mod fork of atmosphere, what other BS you going to pull.
 
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blawar

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Point is you refuse to accept the fact that your tinfoil build is broken, a few months ago you didn't get along with Kosmos developer so you decide to block access for Kosmos/Atmosphere users, where you blame Hekate does not provide proper signature patches(ACID) for users using Tinfoil 1.56 and above. Now you are forcing people to use your bullshit malware mercury and a mod fork of atmosphere, what other BS you going to pull.

My build works great, isnt broken. If CFW's dont want to provide features Tinfoil needs, I find a way :) The problems are almost always atmosphere, shit always works with ReiNX and SX (excluding the 2.9 issues).
 

xabier

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My build works great, isnt broken. If CFW's dont want to provide features Tinfoil needs, I find a way :) The problems are almost always atmosphere, shit always works with ReiNX and SX (excluding the 2.9 issues).

Would your original tinfoil be able to work properly if it was loaded from mercury or non applet hbl from stock atmos/kosmos? Lithium works properly with the new theme and awesome music xD.

I run tinfoil from sx os and it works properly, I used your atmos fork for some days, but I prefer to keep it as is originally because that s what most homebrew apps expect.
 

blawar

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Would your original tinfoil be able to work properly if it was loaded from mercury or non applet hbl from stock atmos/kosmos? Lithium works properly with the new theme and awesome music xD.

I run tinfoil from sx os and it works properly, I used your atmos fork for some days, but I prefer to keep it as is originally because that s what most homebrew apps expect.

i added a memory check in tinfoil 5.00, it refuses to run if there is not enough memory available, though it still enforces the fork through other means because so many people changed their cheats config to work around an edizon bug.
 
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hippy dave

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The problems are almost always atmosphere, shit always works with ReiNX and SX (excluding the 2.9 issues).
That's a pretty blasé way to blow past the MASSIVE FUCKING ISSUES 2.9 is causing, the bricks are still rolling in and a whole bunch of stuff doesn't work properly, but sure I understand you're paid to be on its side no matter how dumb it makes you look.
 

Lacius

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Without the user's consent? It is a fork, and it clearly states it is a fork. One that you have not even used apparently, it does not force a different homebrew launcher. The key changes you are complaining about, were the original atmosphere key bindings, and removing security is laughable.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



They call it malware because they do not like that unmodified Tinfoil forces you to use that atmosphere fork if you want to use tinfoil. This was done for stability and to retain features. For instance atmospehre made a change that reduced applet memory by 33%, the fork reverts that change so tinfoil wont crash due to out of memory. It also forces cheats to be enabled by default (as atmosphere does by default) to ensure the cheats in tinfoil work.
  1. It doesn't clearly state what the fork does, aside from "bug fixes," which is a blatant lie. Without knowing what changes are being made, I can't consent to said changes.
  2. As I've told you previously, I've used the fork. I was not happy at all of the changes forced on me, and I didn't know about the changes until after the fact. That's one of the big problems.
  3. It forces the use of Mercury.
  4. The key changes are specific to the Tinfoil malware, not anything wrong with Atmosphere.
  5. The malware removes prodinfo protection.
I'm not particularly interested in rehashing our previous conversation, particularly when all you're going to do is lie and engage in gaslighting.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Without the user's consent? It is a fork, and it clearly states it is a fork. One that you have not even used apparently, it does not force a different homebrew launcher. The key changes you are complaining about, were the original atmosphere key bindings, and removing security is laughable.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



They call it malware because they do not like that unmodified Tinfoil forces you to use that atmosphere fork if you want to use tinfoil. This was done for stability and to retain features. For instance atmospehre made a change that reduced applet memory by 33%, the fork reverts that change so tinfoil wont crash due to out of memory. It also forces cheats to be enabled by default (as atmosphere does by default) to ensure the cheats in tinfoil work.
We call it malware for the reasons I listed above, and that's what it is. It was not done to solve any problems, since Tinfoil mod works on vanilla Atmosphere without issue.
 

blawar

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  1. It doesn't clearly state what the fork does, aside from "bug fixes," which is a blatant lie. Without knowing what changes are being made, I can't consent to said changes.
  2. As I've told you previously, I've used the fork. I was not happy at all of the changes forced on me, and I didn't know about the changes until after the fact. That's one of the big problems.
  3. It forces the use of Mercury.
  4. The key changes are specific to the Tinfoil malware, not anything wrong with Atmosphere.
  5. The malware removes prodinfo protection.
I'm not particularly interested in rehashing our previous conversation, particularly when all you're going to do is lie and engage in gaslighting.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


We call it malware for the reasons I listed above, and that's what it is. It was not done to solve any problems, since Tinfoil mod works on vanilla Atmosphere without issue.

i’m not going to rehash any of this, because i can tell you aren’t interesting i actually talking about the issues since you keep repeating the lie that the fork forces you to use mercury. this tells me you are lying and never even ran it or you would know that the default homebrew menu is stock hbmenu :)
 

Lacius

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i’m not going to rehash any of this, because i can tell you aren’t interesting i actually talking about the issues since you keep repeating the lie that the fork forces you to use mercury. this tells me you are lying and never even ran it or you would know that the default homebrew menu is stock hbmenu :)
There are three possibilities:
A.) Something has changed with your fork since I used it.
B.) The hotkey changes were convoluted enough that I was accidentally launching Mercury.
C.) You're lying. I wouldn't jump to this conclusion normally, but you've lied a few times during our past conversations.

Regardless, this Mercury issue was one of many.
 

Mopquill

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Here to corroborate what @Lacius has said. Blawar knows his program better than us (obv), so he tries to engage in discussion about the complexities of things we can't know (it being closed source, and us having stopped using it after the initial breaking changes in 4.0.0). Additionally, he always refers to it as it currently is (or seems to be doing so; he could also just be lying, but based on previous discussions, I think he's got some "technically I'm not lying" minutiae on his side) -- but I know this: when I first used the thing, it changed my launcher (forced me to use Mercury, I think), changed my button combos, broke other apps, bundled Incognito unnecessarily, and then justified changes to his Atmosphere fork to support Incognito, a software he's clearly bundling so he can justify this vendetta against Kosmos/Atmosphere. This is his bid to say "well, if you're going to disagree with me, then as a developer of a large app (made larger by the name he stole), I'm going to modify your CFW to my liking so I can control it and take credit for it".

But none of this is driven by good product design, UX design, nor even actual development -- and those are things I do for a living, mind you. There do seem to be some legitimate complaints about Atmosphere going against a spec they helped outline/agreed to, and some violations of entering code into codespace belonging to Atmosphere that specifically supports HBL (which makes it non-agnostic), but they could easily use the same "trying to develop a full suite for the Switch experience" excuse he does. But in any case, he can't file a complaint with them because they refuse to speak with him or support his stuff. And speaking with him myself, I can easily see why. I let him go through the whole spiel in that other thread, and none of what he said was actual justification. When I provided other solutions that don't require modifying a user's firmware without their express and informed consent (he'll tell you it's implied and he disclaims enough, but it's garbage), he either ignored the good ones, or would nitpick some thing he didn't have control over.

The largest and scariest thing to me is that he exposes the user's prodinfo (ostensibly so Incognito can back it up and wipe it, but who knows if that is the true motive), but doesn't inform the user that he's doing this, that this is composed of the unique bits that make up the identities bans are tied to, and/or could be uploaded elsewhere (the tinfoilmod author says he RE'd Tinfoil and found nothing untoward), and used by others to spoof themselves as innocent users so they can download stuff under their product info and get them banned instead of themselves. That is also besides it hijacking my button combos and purposefully configured launcher.

And mind you, this all takes more work and code from him. Any developer that doesn't want to support something is basically like "look, it's a headache for me to consider all that, I don't even use that in my own setups, you're essentially sailing uncharted territory, anything can happen, I'm not responsible." But instead, he's trying to say it's "unsupported" while specifically going out of his way to support it in a way that lets him modify/control the user's experience, and in ways that make it less secure. And when we point this out, he's like "fine, I can just prevent Atmosphere users from launching Tinfoil at all". And it's not like he's got old versions linked on his site -- he specifically wants to control what you run.

tl;dr:
- Seconding what Lacius said
- blawar changed a bunch of stuff, some of it unsafe
- he's not properly informing/getting consent to do this
- His motives are mostly personal, and to do with a developer feud, not anything necessary, or useful for users
- exposes your prodinfo (the stuff that can get you banned)
- works extra to do all this, says this is what "unsupported" looks like

Anyhow, I highly recommend tinfoilmod, keep anything blawar has written away from your Switch for now.
 

hippy dave

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^ good post.

Dude needs to just strip out all the bullshit, and let his code (the actual code with a purpose, not the malignant vendetta code) speak for itself.
 

MasterJ360

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Hmm I'll have to look into this tinfoil mod. Not having control over your files or software is a big no in any form of community.
Even if you are doing it for a good cause its still a bad idea. Reminds me of that 1 guy who made mod tools for pc games, but it deleted your files if you were using a pirated game.
 
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