There are only two genders. Change my mind.

[3DSPoet]

I agree with most of your post but disagree here. I think you should have to tell people how you would like to be addressed exactly once, and remind as necessary. If you tell people how you indentify just to hear the sound of your own voice, that's obviously a problem, but otherwise if a person finds themselves repeating how they want to be addressed, chances are the fault is actually on the person addressing them

My point with that part was that it's not necessary in normal conversation. The only time I need to know anything about your anatomy or your mental sex/gender information is if that is specifically what we are discussing or we're negotiating a possible relationship. If we're discussing the finer points of a Pokemon battle or last week's episode of Brooklyn 99, there is absolutely no reason to bring it up. Now, if in the course of the conversation, an issue arises due to a difference in perceptions, a brief, POLITE acknowledgment of the relevant information may be necessary. The people involved in this movement, for the most part are not polite nor do they wait until the information is needed.

 

[MaverickWellington]

Total makes a pretty valid point -- the whole debate has been ruined because of counter culture nonsense. One group of idiots will see another group of idiots screaming, and instead of just ignoring them, or avoiding them like most normal people, they felt the need to either scream back at them, or scream over them, leading us to a sort of scream-culture war. Because of the outrageous "Superwholock" people as someone in the thread put it, people are basically terrified of letting there be any merit to what they say or having any sort of neutral, middle-groundish stance on the topic, because heaven fucking forbid you agree with one of those people on anything, you'd be just as bad as them!

The point I want to make with this is that it's ultimately harmless. Are there 2 genders? Well, that's a tough question, because there's several perspectives with their own individual answer. In a language that has a he, she, and neutral they, IE English, it would be three. There are 2 sexes, but they are not the same as genders. I think that there are essentially 2 "main" genders, and the recent boom of "gender revolution" or whatever you want to call it where people "invent" new genders aren't actually genders, they're just new forms of expression and coping mechanisms for a rise in gender dysphoria.

What I wanna know is why everyone gets so militantly up in arms about it. It's like saying there's only two kinds of clothing: shirt and pants, you absolutely can't wear anything else. Clothing, much like the "new genders" are just new forms of expression and nothing more. It doesn't mean someone is rewriting their sex, nor has anyone ever actually argued that they are, despite the countless arguments in this thread against such a blatant strawman. It just means someone is expressing themselves with different terms, and behaviors, that do not conform to the standard norms of male and female, of which there are already numerous deviations of to begin with.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

this entire post

Holy fuck this too. Liberal as a term has gone from someone who is big on individual rights to essentially part communist, part hippie, part anti-american, and it's driving me nuts. Identity politics were a mistake, and this shit right here is why I think we should just abolish the party system entirely.

 

[osaka35]

Holy fuck this too. Liberal as a term has gone from someone who is big on individual rights to essentially part communist, part hippie, part anti-american, and it's driving me nuts. Identity politics were a mistake, and this shit right here is why I think we should just abolish the party system entirely.

individuals rights as well, yes but less relevant to their particular point so didn't go on about it. (edit: or, more accurately, I talked about the extension of the individual vs group dynamic that creates our politics and ethical dilemmas, and aligned them with the problem discussed in the thread/brought up) Though your second bit is more spin than actuality. And are you suggesting abolishing a party system is going to affect the way people perceive political philosophies? I mean, I guess, but that seems more like a part of the problem than the reason why we have the problem.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Holy fuck this too. Liberal as a term has gone from someone who is big on individual rights to essentially part communist, part hippie, part anti-american, and it's driving me nuts. Identity politics were a mistake, and this shit right here is why I think we should just abolish the party system entirely.

Now wait a second, you're thinking of "neoliberals" rather than just liberals; the liberals of today, politically speaking, ARE moderates compared to most of the rest of the world, whereas neoliberals are effectively what the democratic party was before the 70s (which is to say, big on social security and wellness programs that are government funded). Neither of them are bad identities, per se, but they can be if you rabidly refuse to consider any other viewpoints. That said, there has been a rise of intolerant behavior from the opposite side of the political spectrum which, at times, unfortunately necessitates it. Really it all comes down to assuming that everyone entering discourse is looking for reasonable discussion, which I think this thread proves is certainly not the case

 

[QCLasky]

You wouldn't call a slightly salted sweet potato a salty potato, because it's still a sweet potato, no matter what you add to it.. Got it?

 

[TotalInsanity4]

You wouldn't call a slightly salted sweet potato a salty potato, because it's still a sweet potato, no matter what you add to it.. Got it?

No, but you have potatoes, yams, and sweet potatoes

That was a... strange... example

 

[SimonMKWii]

Gender is just a "word", a social identity, whereas sex is determined by which chromosome (XX or XY) is in the specific sperm cell that fertilizes the egg.
Therefore, you could say you were a genderless alien called Gronk from the planet Zibituth and it would still be perfectly valid.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Gender is just a "word", a social identity, whereas sex is determined by which chromosome (XX or XY) is in the specific sperm cell that fertilizes the egg.
Therefore, you could say you were a genderless alien called Gronk from the planet Zibituth and it would still be perfectly valid.

Well... The last bit would be factually incorrect, but I get what you're saying

 

[Waygeek]

Gender is an outdated concept and you can present as basically anything you want to. In that sense sex and gender aren't equal, but in the same way that one can have many different sexual orientations, there's also a spectrum ranging from masculine and feminine presenting that a person might chose to present as

If this was true women wouldn't identify as men, men wouldn't identify as women etc.

There are two genders, but of course, gender dysphoria exists, and people with it should be listened to, included in society and where it's going, and respected. But just because you feel like a more feminine man doesn't make that it's own gender, and vise versa. I'm not a macho brick-shithouse, I would be considered quite effeminate by some I'm sure, but that doesn't mean I'm an other, previously undocumented gender.

 

[Mama Looigi]

You exist

 

[goldensun87]

I will be willing to accept a maximum of four genders: man, woman, he-woman, she-man. And that is me being generous.

 

[mrdude]

Male
Female
Mental

That's all there is to it folks!

 

[CraddaPoosta]

The problem with the "transgenderism" social movement is that it demands that other people surrender their personal liberty to hold their own personal opinions.

It's one thing if you are a boy who thinks he is a girl. It's another when you DEMAND that another person play along with your lifelong game of Pretty Pretty Princess.

If you are suffering from the mental disorder that is gender identity disorder or gender dysphoria, then you need help, not for society to play along with your delusional mental illness.

Mutilating your body or chemically altering it so that you more closely resemble the biological gender traits of your preferred gender does not "transition" you into that gender. You're just a mentally ill individual who chopped off his dangly bits and grew some fake breasteses. That won't alter your chromosomes.

Chromosomes, not feelings, determine your gender.

Again, I do not personally care what another person envisions himself or herself as. You can play pretend all day. You can imagine that you are the daintiest lady in the world, even though you have a manly Adam's apple and man hands. That's perfectly cool with me.

You cross the line the instant you INSIST that I must treat you as something you can never be. You don't get to dictate to me how I MUST perceive you.

You have the liberty to live out your fantasy. I have the liberty to refuse to play along. Neither of us are allowed to harm the other.

That's fair. That's just. That's equality.

 

[Captain_N]

I cant change your mind because i agree. Sorry folks there is only 2. Want to know why? Because nature said so, that's why. When a trans gender's grave is dug up in 2000 years the genetics will say male or female. Not what someone wants to be. Ill call a transgirl a she, but i can still smell that y chromosome. I know its there.

 

[Rune]

I cant change your mind because i agree. Sorry folks there is only 2. Want to know why? Because nature said so, that's why. When a trans gender's grave is dug up in 2000 years the genetics will say male or female. Not what someone wants to be. Ill call a transgirl a she, but i can still smell that y chromosome. I know its there.

But you're talking about biological sex, not gender. There's a difference.

 

[Captain_N]

But you're talking about biological sex, not gender. There's a difference.

Oh there is a difference. All but 2 of genders is made up. Which is my point. the only gender nature sees is the one for a male and the one for a female. The rest are made up and mean nothing. Maybe they will be making up races also.

 

[Rune]

Oh there is a difference. All but 2 of genders is made up. Which is my point. the only gender nature sees is the one for a male and the one for a female. The rest are made up and mean nothing. Maybe they will be making up races also.

You're still talking about biological sex, not gender.

 

[CraddaPoosta]

You're still talking about biological sex, not gender.

The idea that "biological sex" and "gender" are not directly linked to and reflective of each other is, itself, a purely social construct. The idea that we can or should separate "sex" and "gender" is, itself, a relatively new social construct. Since we're talking about what is or isn't a social construct, and all.

Funny how humans managed to survive in our current form for 10,000 years, but only in the past decade have we tried to force other people to ignore everything they've ever learned or experienced in relation to anatomical biology, in favor of protecting the tender and sensitive feels of the mentally ill.

We're normalizing and mainstreaming psychological delusion, and that's not a good solution. The increased risk of suicide among those identifying as "transgender" is somewhere around 40%. Mainstreaming delusion won't address the underlying MENTAL ILLNESS that "transgendered" individuals are suffering from.

We shouldn't treat the symptoms of gender dysphoria with dishonesty and lies. We should treat the MENTAL DISORDER, itself. Even if 100% of the people on the planet were fine with accepting a post-op "transgendered" individual as the gender they are pretending to be, that wouldn't change the MENTAL ILLNESS they are suffering from. Their increased risk of suicidality would be exactly what it is, today, even if the whole world was willing to become liars and mollycoddlers.

 

[Captain_N]

The idea that "biological sex" and "gender" are not directly linked to and reflective of each other is, itself, a purely social construct. The idea that we can or should separate "sex" and "gender" is, itself, a relatively new social construct. Since we're talking about what is or isn't a social construct, and all.

Funny how humans managed to survive in our current form for 10,000 years, but only in the past decade have we tried to force other people to ignore everything they've ever learned or experienced in relation to anatomical biology, in favor of protecting the tender and sensitive feels of the mentally ill.

We're normalizing and mainstreaming psychological delusion, and that's not a good solution. The increased risk of suicide among those identifying as "transgender" is somewhere around 40%. Mainstreaming delusion won't address the underlying MENTAL ILLNESS that "transgendered" individuals are suffering from.

We shouldn't treat the symptoms of gender dysphoria with dishonesty and lies. We should treat the MENTAL DISORDER, itself. Even if 100% of the people on the planet were fine with accepting a post-op "transgendered" individual as the gender they are pretending to be, that wouldn't change the MENTAL ILLNESS they are suffering from. Their increased risk of suicidality would be exactly what it is, today, even if the whole world was willing to become liars and mollycoddlers.

Now this is whats up. I see why your called the "End boss of the Interne. You also have people saying that there is No difference between a man and a woman. Id like to know what they are smoking because it must be some epic shit.

 

[CraddaPoosta]

Now this is whats up. I see why your called the "End boss of the Interne. You also have people saying that there is No difference between a man and a woman. Id like to know what they are smoking because it must be some epic shit.

If we can observe the animal kingdom (which humans happen to be subjects of) and determine marked and utterly distinct differences between the males and females of any particular species, I see absolutely no logic in denying that the same exact dichotomy would be represented in homo sapiens sapiens.